Does a car rust quicker, garaged
12-03-2005, 11:06 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Does a car rust quicker, garaged
Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
roads.
True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
(dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
from time to time…
Has there been any studies done?
Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
concrete?
Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
TP
roads.
True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
(dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
from time to time…
Has there been any studies done?
Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
concrete?
Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
TP
12-03-2005, 11:16 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
The only issue I can think of is that if the garage is heated and if
there is some humidity in the air, this will add to the rusting process
on the car. Other than that, I do not think there is any real
difference if its garaged or not.
I'm not sure what the floor of the garage has to do with it either.
there is some humidity in the air, this will add to the rusting process
on the car. Other than that, I do not think there is any real
difference if its garaged or not.
I'm not sure what the floor of the garage has to do with it either.
12-03-2005, 11:32 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
In article <wojkf.93920$JQ.82006@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, TP
<to2000ny2000nospam@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
The principal governing factor is that the chemical reaction occurs
more quickly at higher temperatures. That argues against garaging and
especially against heated garaging.
Other factors are second-order. If epoxying the floor allows you to
clear out the slush often, that's good; else the difference is
negligible during the winter. However, the salt absorbed into an
untreated cement floor will have a small effect when the car is garaged
wet in the summertime.
Some years ago I read that Rochester (western NY, for our distant
readers) uses 7% of all the road salt in the US. To me that's a
jaw-dropper. I wish I'd saved the newspaper article so I could
attribute it here.
Brent
<to2000ny2000nospam@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
The principal governing factor is that the chemical reaction occurs
more quickly at higher temperatures. That argues against garaging and
especially against heated garaging.
Other factors are second-order. If epoxying the floor allows you to
clear out the slush often, that's good; else the difference is
negligible during the winter. However, the salt absorbed into an
untreated cement floor will have a small effect when the car is garaged
wet in the summertime.
Some years ago I read that Rochester (western NY, for our distant
readers) uses 7% of all the road salt in the US. To me that's a
jaw-dropper. I wish I'd saved the newspaper article so I could
attribute it here.
Brent
12-03-2005, 11:33 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
TP wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car rust
> quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it (dripping on
> the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside the garage in the
> natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle. Maybe
> even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
In general chemical reactions occur more rapidly with higher
temperatures than they do at lower temps. So, if the garage keeps the
vehicle warmer then it would be if left outside then the answer is
probably yes.
John
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car rust
> quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it (dripping on
> the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside the garage in the
> natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle. Maybe
> even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
In general chemical reactions occur more rapidly with higher
temperatures than they do at lower temps. So, if the garage keeps the
vehicle warmer then it would be if left outside then the answer is
probably yes.
John
12-03-2005, 11:55 AM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
I've never seen any authority on this, but I would agree with John,
that it would be worse in a heated garage. Not only do many chemical
reactions occur faster at higher temps, but when you melt the
ice/salt/slush, I would think it would give it more opportunity to get
into cracks, crevices, etc. If you kept it cold and frozen till it
could be washed off, I would think that would be better.
And the other question is, how much difference does it really make, as
compared to the other benefits of having the car garaged, ie
warmer/easier start so less wear on the engine, more comfy, no frozen
doors, windshield ice, etc.
that it would be worse in a heated garage. Not only do many chemical
reactions occur faster at higher temps, but when you melt the
ice/salt/slush, I would think it would give it more opportunity to get
into cracks, crevices, etc. If you kept it cold and frozen till it
could be washed off, I would think that would be better.
And the other question is, how much difference does it really make, as
compared to the other benefits of having the car garaged, ie
warmer/easier start so less wear on the engine, more comfy, no frozen
doors, windshield ice, etc.
12-03-2005, 12:50 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
I would think they're two issues as far as an unheated garage. First
humidity would be higher as vapor would not be chased off and outgas as
readily as in heat, result is comparitively higher humidity over a
longer period of time but at slightly cooler termperatures. Second
retention of water even if the floor is coated by definition is higher
as it is a "closed environment" My two cents.... Doc
humidity would be higher as vapor would not be chased off and outgas as
readily as in heat, result is comparitively higher humidity over a
longer period of time but at slightly cooler termperatures. Second
retention of water even if the floor is coated by definition is higher
as it is a "closed environment" My two cents.... Doc
12-03-2005, 01:07 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
In article <wojkf.93920$JQ.82006@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
TP <to2000ny2000nospam@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
Rust happens only above a certain temperature. Below that, it won't.
If you garage the car, the more likely it is that you'll hit that
temperature.
TP <to2000ny2000nospam@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
Rust happens only above a certain temperature. Below that, it won't.
If you garage the car, the more likely it is that you'll hit that
temperature.
12-03-2005, 01:59 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
TP wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car rust
> quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it (dripping on
> the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside the garage in the
> natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle. Maybe
> even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
warm, salty, wet - bad combo for cars.
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car rust
> quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it (dripping on
> the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside the garage in the
> natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle. Maybe
> even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
warm, salty, wet - bad combo for cars.
12-03-2005, 02:04 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
TP wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
There is no one simple answer.
Below the freezing point no rusting will occur, so outside may well
reduce the rust. Driving a car into a garage means the warm car will warm
the garage and stay warm longer allowing more damage.
Outside being cold does not bother the car, but it can slow rust.
In real life there is not that much of a difference.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
There is no one simple answer.
Below the freezing point no rusting will occur, so outside may well
reduce the rust. Driving a car into a garage means the warm car will warm
the garage and stay warm longer allowing more damage.
Outside being cold does not bother the car, but it can slow rust.
In real life there is not that much of a difference.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
12-03-2005, 02:04 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
Reason for rusting includes humidity trapped in places where
rust then occurs. In he garage, those spaces would dry - rust
process halted. Even better is to rinse salt out of those
spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
you don't want it. But more important is to get those 'deep
inside' places dry.
TP wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
rust then occurs. In he garage, those spaces would dry - rust
process halted. Even better is to rinse salt out of those
spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
you don't want it. But more important is to get those 'deep
inside' places dry.
TP wrote:
> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time…
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...
>
> TP
12-03-2005, 06:05 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
"Even better is to rinse salt out of those
spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
you don't want it. "
Now this is an interesting point of discussion. I've wondered about
this. Does a decent car wash have anything in it's water recycling
system to remove salt from the water? Do they at least use clean water
for the rinse? If not, I wonder how high the salt concentration would
get and how long after the last application of road salt it would be
before the car wash had eliminated most of it from the water in use?
spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
you don't want it. "
Now this is an interesting point of discussion. I've wondered about
this. Does a decent car wash have anything in it's water recycling
system to remove salt from the water? Do they at least use clean water
for the rinse? If not, I wonder how high the salt concentration would
get and how long after the last application of road salt it would be
before the car wash had eliminated most of it from the water in use?
12-03-2005, 09:59 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
Its funny that no one here has really hit the nail on the head on this one
yet.
Increasing the number of freeze-thaw cycles over a car's life along with the
presence of moisture (and compounded by corrosion- inducing ions found in
road salt) will certainly accelerate the pace of rusting. The moisture
gets into seams and beneath undercoating and dirt and paint (even in
microscopic size locations) and then freezes (which expands, causing minute
but detrimental movements in the metal and paint bonding) and then thaws and
allows the moisture-salt solution into even more new new places to repeat
the process is what does the damage over time.
And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can do
more harm than good. Worse yet, some car washes use water that has been
recycled several times and has a very concentrated salt solution from
everybody elses car before you use it - shooting this stuff all under your
car a few times every winter is really asking for it. Sounds funny, but if
you suspect recycled water after the carwash owner denies it, taste it for
saltiness (have a bottle of good water handy to rinse afterwards in any
case!)
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1133651113.603055.313620@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> "Even better is to rinse salt out of those
> spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
> washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
> you don't want it. "
>
> Now this is an interesting point of discussion. I've wondered about
> this. Does a decent car wash have anything in it's water recycling
> system to remove salt from the water? Do they at least use clean water
> for the rinse? If not, I wonder how high the salt concentration would
> get and how long after the last application of road salt it would be
> before the car wash had eliminated most of it from the water in use?
>
yet.
Increasing the number of freeze-thaw cycles over a car's life along with the
presence of moisture (and compounded by corrosion- inducing ions found in
road salt) will certainly accelerate the pace of rusting. The moisture
gets into seams and beneath undercoating and dirt and paint (even in
microscopic size locations) and then freezes (which expands, causing minute
but detrimental movements in the metal and paint bonding) and then thaws and
allows the moisture-salt solution into even more new new places to repeat
the process is what does the damage over time.
And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can do
more harm than good. Worse yet, some car washes use water that has been
recycled several times and has a very concentrated salt solution from
everybody elses car before you use it - shooting this stuff all under your
car a few times every winter is really asking for it. Sounds funny, but if
you suspect recycled water after the carwash owner denies it, taste it for
saltiness (have a bottle of good water handy to rinse afterwards in any
case!)
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1133651113.603055.313620@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> "Even better is to rinse salt out of those
> spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
> washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
> you don't want it. "
>
> Now this is an interesting point of discussion. I've wondered about
> this. Does a decent car wash have anything in it's water recycling
> system to remove salt from the water? Do they at least use clean water
> for the rinse? If not, I wonder how high the salt concentration would
> get and how long after the last application of road salt it would be
> before the car wash had eliminated most of it from the water in use?
>
12-04-2005, 04:26 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
Tom Levigne wrote:
>
> And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
> corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can do
> more harm than good. Worse yet, some car washes use water that has been
> recycled several times and has a very concentrated salt solution from
> everybody elses car before you use it - shooting this stuff all under your
> car a few times every winter is really asking for it. Sounds funny, but
> if you suspect recycled water after the carwash owner denies it, taste it
> for saltiness (have a bottle of good water handy to rinse afterwards in
> any case!)
I think that it would be a bit safer and easier to just use an ohm meter.
Recycled water with a high ion concentration should have considerably lower
resistance. It might also save you from consuming a mouthful of
hydrocarbons, antifreeze, and who knows what.
Eric
>
> And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
> corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can do
> more harm than good. Worse yet, some car washes use water that has been
> recycled several times and has a very concentrated salt solution from
> everybody elses car before you use it - shooting this stuff all under your
> car a few times every winter is really asking for it. Sounds funny, but
> if you suspect recycled water after the carwash owner denies it, taste it
> for saltiness (have a bottle of good water handy to rinse afterwards in
> any case!)
I think that it would be a bit safer and easier to just use an ohm meter.
Recycled water with a high ion concentration should have considerably lower
resistance. It might also save you from consuming a mouthful of
hydrocarbons, antifreeze, and who knows what.
Eric
12-04-2005, 08:26 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does a car rust quicker, garaged
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1133651113.603055.313620@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> "Even better is to rinse salt out of those
> spaces with water - not the salt recycled water found in car
> washed. What does a car wash do? Wash that salt into places
> you don't want it. "
>
> Now this is an interesting point of discussion. I've wondered about
> this. Does a decent car wash have anything in it's water recycling
> system to remove salt from the water? Do they at least use clean water
> for the rinse?
Most use clean water for everything.