|
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Jerry Belluomini" <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote in
news:bi57e5$g0j$1@sass2141.sandia.gov: > The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord > tracks straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no > whistle at any speed. What's acceptable to YOU,may be excessive to others.Also,you may not have the same tires as the other guy,or be driving on different pavement.Maybe your tires are all of equal pressures,too. -- Jim Yanik,NRA member remove null to contact me |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:08:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote: > >Well,speaking as a former service person(electronics),the more information >you can give about the problem,the better the tech can do.And taping a note >to the item in for service may give the info a better chance of actually >getting to the person doing the service,as it may not get transferred into >the computer -as you wrote it-(people always take shortcuts),or the entire >description may not print out on the service document. You've touched on one of the challenges in today's service environment. The tech working on your car does not have the benefit of your observations and descriptions. I've had experiences where the mechanic reports checking what the service writer decided was the problem without actually knowing what the customer complaint / problem was in the first place. Leaving a note is a great approach and one I don't always remember to do ... but always should. And the service writers like it too. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:08:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote: > >Well,speaking as a former service person(electronics),the more information >you can give about the problem,the better the tech can do.And taping a note >to the item in for service may give the info a better chance of actually >getting to the person doing the service,as it may not get transferred into >the computer -as you wrote it-(people always take shortcuts),or the entire >description may not print out on the service document. You've touched on one of the challenges in today's service environment. The tech working on your car does not have the benefit of your observations and descriptions. I've had experiences where the mechanic reports checking what the service writer decided was the problem without actually knowing what the customer complaint / problem was in the first place. Leaving a note is a great approach and one I don't always remember to do ... but always should. And the service writers like it too. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
My experiences with the dealer were a little different.. when I was driving
a 90 Chevy Lumina and brought it in for rough idle the dealer was only too happy to charge three hours worth of diagnosis time, and then they fixed the wrong thing. It would seem a little bit silly on the surface that the dealer would not want to charge the customer by the hour to diagnose things, but I think the real reason is that these people know what the trouble free repairs are that typically take less time to perform than the hours that are in the book. In general though I see no reason at all to go to a dealer with a car that's out of warranty unless it's a very strange problem. The guy across the street says he was billed $500 to change plugs and wires in his 40,000 km 2000 Accord V6 which seems ridiculous to me, my '98 CL says platinum plugs are good to 168,000 km. If it's under warranty, (and my cars are never that new) then I guess I would put more pressure on the dealer to fix stuff for free. "TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com... > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. > > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
My experiences with the dealer were a little different.. when I was driving
a 90 Chevy Lumina and brought it in for rough idle the dealer was only too happy to charge three hours worth of diagnosis time, and then they fixed the wrong thing. It would seem a little bit silly on the surface that the dealer would not want to charge the customer by the hour to diagnose things, but I think the real reason is that these people know what the trouble free repairs are that typically take less time to perform than the hours that are in the book. In general though I see no reason at all to go to a dealer with a car that's out of warranty unless it's a very strange problem. The guy across the street says he was billed $500 to change plugs and wires in his 40,000 km 2000 Accord V6 which seems ridiculous to me, my '98 CL says platinum plugs are good to 168,000 km. If it's under warranty, (and my cars are never that new) then I guess I would put more pressure on the dealer to fix stuff for free. "TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com... > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. > > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini"
<gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: >Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can >leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your >car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having >to pay a technician to do the same. >"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net... Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding to anything in it. Just too lazy and selfish, I guess... By the way, ever consider a blank like between your post and the post you're responding to? |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini"
<gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: >Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can >leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your >car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having >to pay a technician to do the same. >"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net... Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding to anything in it. Just too lazy and selfish, I guess... By the way, ever consider a blank like between your post and the post you're responding to? |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote in message news:vr3dkv42kaf9u7t5e2hjgkkon4u5a10rre@4ax.com... > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini" > <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: > > >Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can > >leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your > >car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having > >to pay a technician to do the same. > >"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net... > > Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding > to anything in it. Uh.... Pot. Kettle. Black. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote in message news:vr3dkv42kaf9u7t5e2hjgkkon4u5a10rre@4ax.com... > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini" > <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: > > >Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can > >leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your > >car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having > >to pay a technician to do the same. > >"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net... > > Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding > to anything in it. Uh.... Pot. Kettle. Black. |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in
news:vk9ep440kfra56@corp.supernews.com: > On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with > your foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot > of the brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if > these newer V6 cars do that or not. > On a '01 Accord 4-cylinder it always shifts into 1st. You can easily verify this while the car is stopped by moving the lever to D3, then to 2. You can feel the transmission shifting to 2nd. When you move the lever back to D3 and D4, it shifts back to 1st. Ed |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Jafir Elkurd" <jafir@nospam.no.spam.hotpop.com> wrote in
news:vk9ep440kfra56@corp.supernews.com: > On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with > your foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot > of the brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if > these newer V6 cars do that or not. > On a '01 Accord 4-cylinder it always shifts into 1st. You can easily verify this while the car is stopped by moving the lever to D3, then to 2. You can feel the transmission shifting to 2nd. When you move the lever back to D3 and D4, it shifts back to 1st. Ed |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:52:53 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
<sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote: >> Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding >> to anything in it. > >Uh.... > >Pot. Kettle. Black. Apples and oranges. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:52:53 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
<sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote: >> Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding >> to anything in it. > >Uh.... > >Pot. Kettle. Black. Apples and oranges. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would
totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of anything that was going on. (top posted intentionally just to irritate you). On 8/22/03 4:49 PM, in article vr3dkv42kaf9u7t5e2hjgkkon4u5a10rre@4ax.com, "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini" > <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: > >> Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can >> leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your >> car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having >> to pay a technician to do the same. >> "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net... > > Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding > to anything in it. Just too lazy and selfish, I guess... > > By the way, ever consider a blank like between your post and the post > you're responding to? > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would
totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of anything that was going on. (top posted intentionally just to irritate you). On 8/22/03 4:49 PM, in article vr3dkv42kaf9u7t5e2hjgkkon4u5a10rre@4ax.com, "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:05 -0700, "Jerry Belluomini" > <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote: > >> Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can >> leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your >> car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having >> to pay a technician to do the same. >> "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net... > > Any reason not to trim Caliban's post? You weren't really responding > to anything in it. Just too lazy and selfish, I guess... > > By the way, ever consider a blank like between your post and the post > you're responding to? > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
>This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >anything that was going on. It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
>This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >anything that was going on. It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > >> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >> anything that was going on. > > It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the > little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more > easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the > obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they > are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* > save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the > *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. > This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop up the postings from the top (not the bottom). If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was posted. I stand by my earlier analogy - if you can't contribute useful information to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody else's time and bandwidth. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > >> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >> anything that was going on. > > It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the > little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more > easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the > obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they > are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* > save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the > *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. > This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop up the postings from the top (not the bottom). If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was posted. I stand by my earlier analogy - if you can't contribute useful information to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody else's time and bandwidth. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Doesthe TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Thomas Hern wrote: > In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > ...> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > well. > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Sounds reasonable to me. Did you offer to pay for the diagnostic time up front? > Had > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? Policy or not, who do you propose, pay for the time spent trying to diagnose a "problem" that can not be duplicated? -- Tp -------- __o ----- -\<. ------ __o --- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<. ----------------- ( ) / ( ) --------------------------------------------- Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Doesthe TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Thomas Hern wrote: > In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > ...> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > well. > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Sounds reasonable to me. Did you offer to pay for the diagnostic time up front? > Had > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? Policy or not, who do you propose, pay for the time spent trying to diagnose a "problem" that can not be duplicated? -- Tp -------- __o ----- -\<. ------ __o --- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<. ----------------- ( ) / ( ) --------------------------------------------- Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Doesthe TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Please note
Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it easy from them to correct HE'S back! mike hunt dizzy wrote: > > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > > >This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would > >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for > >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of > >anything that was going on. > > It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the > little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more > easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the > obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they > are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* > save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the > *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. Please note Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it easy from them to correct HE'S back! mike hunt |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Doesthe TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Please note
Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it easy from them to correct HE'S back! mike hunt dizzy wrote: > > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > > >This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would > >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for > >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of > >anything that was going on. > > It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the > little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more > easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the > obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they > are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* > save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the > *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. Please note Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it easy from them to correct HE'S back! mike hunt |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On 8/23/2003 10:51 AM MelvinGibson@mailcity.com spake these words of
knowledge: > Please note > > > Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a > preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it > easy from them to correct > > > HE'S back! > > > > mike hunt > > > > dizzy wrote: >> >> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >> >> >This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >> >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >> >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >> >anything that was going on. >> >> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. > > > Please note > > Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a > preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it > easy from them to correct > > > HE'S back! > > > mike hunt How's that for evidence, E? RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On 8/23/2003 10:51 AM MelvinGibson@mailcity.com spake these words of
knowledge: > Please note > > > Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a > preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it > easy from them to correct > > > HE'S back! > > > > mike hunt > > > > dizzy wrote: >> >> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >> >> >This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >> >totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >> >typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >> >anything that was going on. >> >> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. > > > Please note > > Posted at the top and bottom, to please those that have a > preference. Particularly those that have a paranoia, to make it > easy from them to correct > > > HE'S back! > > > mike hunt How's that for evidence, E? RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:40:47 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
>On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, >"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >>> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >>> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >>> anything that was going on. >> >> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. >> >This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed >everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. >There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop >up the postings from the top (not the bottom). So what? You didn't refute anything I've said. >If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is >being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line >with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. A) It's not that simple. Top posting sucks, in almost all cases. Top posting without appropriate trimming is downright rude. B) Even what you suggest would be an improvement over the current state of affairs, with stupid, lazy, selfish top posters blabbering-away at the top, with zero chance for an intelligent discussion. >The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" >bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance >anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was >posted. Someone's got to tell these idiots the straight scoop. >I stand by my earlier analogy - That's your problem. >if you can't contribute useful information >to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody >else's time and bandwidth. It's not a waste. There's a lot of stupid, clueless, newbie top posters out there who just can't muster the mental capacity to see the error of their ways, until someone slaps them on the head and says "Hey, you stupid, lazy, inconsiderate jerk, trim your freaking posts, and better yet, quit posting your freaking response BEFORE the post you're responding to. People read top to bottom, you selfish, lazy pile of dung." |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:40:47 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
>On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, >"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >>> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >>> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >>> anything that was going on. >> >> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. >> >This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed >everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. >There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop >up the postings from the top (not the bottom). So what? You didn't refute anything I've said. >If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is >being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line >with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. A) It's not that simple. Top posting sucks, in almost all cases. Top posting without appropriate trimming is downright rude. B) Even what you suggest would be an improvement over the current state of affairs, with stupid, lazy, selfish top posters blabbering-away at the top, with zero chance for an intelligent discussion. >The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" >bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance >anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was >posted. Someone's got to tell these idiots the straight scoop. >I stand by my earlier analogy - That's your problem. >if you can't contribute useful information >to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody >else's time and bandwidth. It's not a waste. There's a lot of stupid, clueless, newbie top posters out there who just can't muster the mental capacity to see the error of their ways, until someone slaps them on the head and says "Hey, you stupid, lazy, inconsiderate jerk, trim your freaking posts, and better yet, quit posting your freaking response BEFORE the post you're responding to. People read top to bottom, you selfish, lazy pile of dung." |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On 8/23/2003 10:37 AM TomP spake these words of knowledge:
> > Thomas Hern wrote: > >> In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee >> <hate@spam.com> wrote: >> >> ...> >> > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> > well. >> > >> >> I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >> Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. > > Sounds reasonable to me. Did you offer to pay for the diagnostic time > up front? > > >> Had >> District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > Policy or not, who do you propose, pay for the time spent trying to > diagnose a "problem" that can not be duplicated? Tom, this is supposed to work the way nearly all service businesses work in our capitalist society. The service provider takes the burden of the cost of diagnosis, in return for the possibility or promise of being paid to repair the problem. This can and does lead to unscrupulous customers taking their business elsewhere after diagnosis. It can and does lead to unscrupulous providers providing (or even just charging for) services that are not necessary. But largely, it leads to people finding service providers they like and trust, and *return* to with their next problem. That's business, and that's how it works, in this and many, many other fields. I'm surprised you didn't know that. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- As I said before, I never repeat myself. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On 8/23/2003 10:37 AM TomP spake these words of knowledge:
> > Thomas Hern wrote: > >> In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee >> <hate@spam.com> wrote: >> >> ...> >> > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> > well. >> > >> >> I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >> Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. > > Sounds reasonable to me. Did you offer to pay for the diagnostic time > up front? > > >> Had >> District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > Policy or not, who do you propose, pay for the time spent trying to > diagnose a "problem" that can not be duplicated? Tom, this is supposed to work the way nearly all service businesses work in our capitalist society. The service provider takes the burden of the cost of diagnosis, in return for the possibility or promise of being paid to repair the problem. This can and does lead to unscrupulous customers taking their business elsewhere after diagnosis. It can and does lead to unscrupulous providers providing (or even just charging for) services that are not necessary. But largely, it leads to people finding service providers they like and trust, and *return* to with their next problem. That's business, and that's how it works, in this and many, many other fields. I'm surprised you didn't know that. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- As I said before, I never repeat myself. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
On 8/23/03 10:08 PM, in article 58agkv49h3nq0k7vdgqhgrdn2n85gcvcps@4ax.com,
"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:40:47 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > >> On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, >> "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >>> >>>> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >>>> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >>>> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >>>> anything that was going on. >>> >>> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >>> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >>> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >>> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >>> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >>> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >>> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. >>> >> This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed >> everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. >> There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop >> up the postings from the top (not the bottom). > > So what? You didn't refute anything I've said. > >> If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is >> being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line >> with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. > > A) It's not that simple. Top posting sucks, in almost all cases. > Top posting without appropriate trimming is downright rude. > > B) Even what you suggest would be an improvement over the current > state of affairs, with stupid, lazy, selfish top posters > blabbering-away at the top, with zero chance for an intelligent > discussion. > >> The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" >> bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance >> anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was >> posted. > > Someone's got to tell these idiots the straight scoop. > >> I stand by my earlier analogy - > > That's your problem. > >> if you can't contribute useful information >> to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody >> else's time and bandwidth. > > It's not a waste. There's a lot of stupid, clueless, newbie top > posters out there who just can't muster the mental capacity to see the > error of their ways, until someone slaps them on the head and says > "Hey, you stupid, lazy, inconsiderate jerk, trim your freaking posts, > and better yet, quit posting your freaking response BEFORE the post > you're responding to. People read top to bottom, you selfish, lazy > pile of dung." > Block sender, kill file. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was
On 8/23/03 10:08 PM, in article 58agkv49h3nq0k7vdgqhgrdn2n85gcvcps@4ax.com,
"dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:40:47 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: > >> On 8/23/03 6:47 AM, in article vfkekvc1i64thgsvofsujp6vr7gplmgjr0@4ax.com, >> "dizzy" <dizzy@nospan.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:29:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote: >>> >>>> This reminds me of a really dense general when I was in the Army who would >>>> totally ignore the content of briefings and spent all his time looking for >>>> typographical errors because he could not actually understand the point of >>>> anything that was going on. >>> >>> It reminds me of drooling morons, so lazy that they won't take the >>> little extra effort to trim and organize their posts to make them more >>> easily understandable. Morons so dense that they can't see the >>> obvious inferiority of posting their response at the top of what they >>> are responding to. Morons so selfish that they think the time *they* >>> save by top posting is more important than the time wasted by the >>> *many* readers who will have to struggle to understand it. >>> >> This might have made some sense fifteen years ago when CompuServe printed >> everything out on the heat sensitive paper and you had to wait for it. >> There hasn't been a browser made since Windows 95 came out that doesn't pop >> up the postings from the top (not the bottom). > > So what? You didn't refute anything I've said. > >> If the thread is being bottom posted, continue to bottom post. If it is >> being top posted, continue to top post. If it makes sense to answer in-line >> with comments immediately following the questions, then do that. > > A) It's not that simple. Top posting sucks, in almost all cases. > Top posting without appropriate trimming is downright rude. > > B) Even what you suggest would be an improvement over the current > state of affairs, with stupid, lazy, selfish top posters > blabbering-away at the top, with zero chance for an intelligent > discussion. > >> The only "drooling moron" activity I see going on here is from the "Dizzy" >> bozos who hijack a thread to scream about form while blocking any chance >> anyone else has of getting a substantive answer to the problem that was >> posted. > > Someone's got to tell these idiots the straight scoop. > >> I stand by my earlier analogy - > > That's your problem. > >> if you can't contribute useful information >> to the problem being discussed, stay out of it and quit wasting everybody >> else's time and bandwidth. > > It's not a waste. There's a lot of stupid, clueless, newbie top > posters out there who just can't muster the mental capacity to see the > error of their ways, until someone slaps them on the head and says > "Hey, you stupid, lazy, inconsiderate jerk, trim your freaking posts, > and better yet, quit posting your freaking response BEFORE the post > you're responding to. People read top to bottom, you selfish, lazy > pile of dung." > Block sender, kill file. |
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