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Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Somebody told me this and I just wanted to confirm. The only
distinction between their x-missions, I was told, was that they're just "tuned" differently. I already knew that the Pilot/Ody/MDX all shared the same platform, but didn't think the TL also had the same x-mission as those cars. If this is the case, then since the TL, MDX and the Odyssey are known to have transmission problems, is it reasonable to expect or think that the some of the Pilots probably will develop similar transmission problems as well? Also, what are the symptoms or signs which would surface if you're having the transmission problems often associated with the TL/MDX/Ody? I noticed just in the last month or so with my Pilot (has 28,000KM/17,500miles) that every so often, when starting out from a standstill, for a second or so, before the car actually proceeds forward. At first I thought it was the VTM-4 engaging, but then, I never stepped on the gas hard at all at those times and the roads were in good condition which wouldn't have made the wheels slip at all. When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as well. This hesitation hasn't occurred at any other time, such as merging onto a freeway or when I step on the gas again to resume accelerating after I've been coasting for just a little while. I checked the x-mission fluid which was changed about 10,000KM/62,00miles ago and the color and the level looked alright to me. Any thoughts on the hesitations I'm experiencing? Thanks for your time and courtesy. |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Steve Lee wrote:
> > Somebody told me this and I just wanted to confirm. The only > distinction between their x-missions, I was told, was that they're > just "tuned" differently. I already knew that the Pilot/Ody/MDX all > shared the same platform, but didn't think the TL also had the same > x-mission as those cars. > > If this is the case, then since the TL, MDX and the Odyssey are known > to have transmission problems, is it reasonable to expect or think > that the some of the Pilots probably will develop similar transmission > problems as well? > > Also, what are the symptoms or signs which would surface if you're > having the transmission problems often associated with the TL/MDX/Ody? > > I noticed just in the last month or so with my Pilot (has > 28,000KM/17,500miles) that every so often, when starting out from a > standstill, for a second or so, before the car actually proceeds > forward. ------------------------------- SNIP Our '95 Odyssey does it, and our '97 Odyssey does it. You put it into gear, and wait for about 1/2 second for it to kick into gear. 'Curly' ------------------------------ To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address, you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks. Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing, you should not play any notes you have left over. - |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Steve Lee wrote:
> > Somebody told me this and I just wanted to confirm. The only > distinction between their x-missions, I was told, was that they're > just "tuned" differently. I already knew that the Pilot/Ody/MDX all > shared the same platform, but didn't think the TL also had the same > x-mission as those cars. > > If this is the case, then since the TL, MDX and the Odyssey are known > to have transmission problems, is it reasonable to expect or think > that the some of the Pilots probably will develop similar transmission > problems as well? > > Also, what are the symptoms or signs which would surface if you're > having the transmission problems often associated with the TL/MDX/Ody? > > I noticed just in the last month or so with my Pilot (has > 28,000KM/17,500miles) that every so often, when starting out from a > standstill, for a second or so, before the car actually proceeds > forward. ------------------------------- SNIP Our '95 Odyssey does it, and our '97 Odyssey does it. You put it into gear, and wait for about 1/2 second for it to kick into gear. 'Curly' ------------------------------ To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address, you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks. Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing, you should not play any notes you have left over. - |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with your
foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot of the brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if these newer V6 cars do that or not. "Steve Lee" <hate@spam.com> wrote in message news:fud8kvcfq20nnimj8iq9u5gk53hn743j22@4ax.com... > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:50:19 -0600, "'Curly Q. Links'" > <motsco_@_interbaun.com> wrote: > > >Steve Lee wrote: > >> > [snikp] > >> I noticed just in the last month or so with my Pilot (has > >> 28,000KM/17,500miles) that every so often, when starting out from a > >> standstill, for a second or so, before the car actually proceeds > >> forward. > >------------------------------- SNIP > >Our '95 Odyssey does it, and our '97 Odyssey does it. You put it into > >gear, and wait for about 1/2 second for it to kick into gear. > > Oh, sorry for not having myself clear. When I said from a > "standstill", I meant such as starting out after a light change. I'm > not talking about after having changed gear from say R to D. There's > no gear changing involved at all manually. > > My Pilot would already be in its first gear at a redlight and when the > light changes and I step on the gas is when I felt the hesitations. |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with your
foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot of the brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if these newer V6 cars do that or not. "Steve Lee" <hate@spam.com> wrote in message news:fud8kvcfq20nnimj8iq9u5gk53hn743j22@4ax.com... > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:50:19 -0600, "'Curly Q. Links'" > <motsco_@_interbaun.com> wrote: > > >Steve Lee wrote: > >> > [snikp] > >> I noticed just in the last month or so with my Pilot (has > >> 28,000KM/17,500miles) that every so often, when starting out from a > >> standstill, for a second or so, before the car actually proceeds > >> forward. > >------------------------------- SNIP > >Our '95 Odyssey does it, and our '97 Odyssey does it. You put it into > >gear, and wait for about 1/2 second for it to kick into gear. > > Oh, sorry for not having myself clear. When I said from a > "standstill", I meant such as starting out after a light change. I'm > not talking about after having changed gear from say R to D. There's > no gear changing involved at all manually. > > My Pilot would already be in its first gear at a redlight and when the > light changes and I step on the gas is when I felt the hesitations. |
if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
<hate@spam.com> wrote: ....> > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > well. > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. Combination of alignment and bad tires.] I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then glad to pay. What a novel idea. Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them happy??? And not just dismiss them. Listening Honda? |
if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
<hate@spam.com> wrote: ....> > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > well. > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. Combination of alignment and bad tires.] I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then glad to pay. What a novel idea. Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them happy??? And not just dismiss them. Listening Honda? |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
problem. I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). Their responses as entered into the service slip ... Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did / do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. Tire noise - not excessive. Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. Just dismissed. It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's normal. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote: >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > >...> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> well. >> > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > >Listening Honda? |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
problem. I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). Their responses as entered into the service slip ... Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did / do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. Tire noise - not excessive. Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. Just dismissed. It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's normal. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote: >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > >...> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> well. >> > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > >Listening Honda? |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Jafir Elkurd wrote:
> On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with your > foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot of the > brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if these newer V6 > cars do that or not. On my 2003 TL-S, as soon as the car stops completely, the car shifts to 1st gear. You can see it if you are switched to Sport-Shift. |
Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Jafir Elkurd wrote:
> On most Honda's there is a gear change. When you are at a light with your > foot on the brake, you are in 2nd. Then when you take your foot of the > brake and press the gas, it shifts to first. I don't know if these newer V6 > cars do that or not. On my 2003 TL-S, as soon as the car stops completely, the car shifts to 1st gear. You can see it if you are switched to Sport-Shift. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org... > In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > ...> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > well. > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and "wait" for something to happen. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org... > In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > ...> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > well. > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and "wait" for something to happen. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote Steve Lee > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > ...> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > well. > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > "wait" for something to happen. Agreed. I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their valuable time. I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... Two cents. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote Steve Lee > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > ...> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > well. > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > "wait" for something to happen. Agreed. I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their valuable time. I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... Two cents. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at least where to start / what to check for that condition without having to actually experience it themselves. The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the case here or not, I don't know. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote: >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote >Steve Lee >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: >> > >> > ...> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> > > well. >> > > >> > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? >> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and >> "wait" for something to happen. > >Agreed. > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their >valuable time. > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > >Two cents. > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at least where to start / what to check for that condition without having to actually experience it themselves. The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the case here or not, I don't know. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote: >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote >Steve Lee >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: >> > >> > ...> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> > > well. >> > > >> > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? >> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and >> "wait" for something to happen. > >Agreed. > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their >valuable time. > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > >Two cents. > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote in message news:<hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org>...
********************snip*********** >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new > business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then > glad to pay. What a novel idea. > > Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and > not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them > happy??? And not just dismiss them. > > Listening Honda? Good post. I heard you! p.s. Honda wouldn't give me a new car when the engine folded at 800 miles, but they fixed it. I was really pissed. I bought a new, used car. I've been buying Hondas since 1966. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote in message news:<hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org>...
********************snip*********** >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new > business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then > glad to pay. What a novel idea. > > Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and > not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them > happy??? And not just dismiss them. > > Listening Honda? Good post. I heard you! p.s. Honda wouldn't give me a new car when the engine folded at 800 miles, but they fixed it. I was really pissed. I bought a new, used car. I've been buying Hondas since 1966. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com... > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting up. So he checks it....and....? > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com... > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting up. So he checks it....and....? > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
If I come in and complain of hard starting in the morning, you're
suggesting that I have to leave the car overnight? Not so. The tech doesn't have to experience hard starting to know what to check. Same is true with most complaints. And remember, experiencing the problem doesn't necessarily help anyway. If I report the engine periodically stalls while stopped at a light, does a tech driving up to a light and having the car stall really help him figure out the problem. Lots of people post problems in this newsgroup and lots of people have suggestions about what could cause that problem. Hopefully the techs are the shop have even more experience than some of the folks around this forum. Sure, in particularly stubborn cases, more is required. I had a Volvo that simply would not start in the morning when it was below zero. Everything checked out as fine. Finally the dealer kept the car overnight on a cold night, and found that when the computer was below zero, it quit working properly. Warm it up, and it worked just fine. But those cases are the exception. When I worked on cars many years ago, I found that 90% of the problems on any given car were repeats of what I'd seen before. Most I could diagnose without even seeing the car. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:47:49 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote: > >And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is >looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting >up. > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
If I come in and complain of hard starting in the morning, you're
suggesting that I have to leave the car overnight? Not so. The tech doesn't have to experience hard starting to know what to check. Same is true with most complaints. And remember, experiencing the problem doesn't necessarily help anyway. If I report the engine periodically stalls while stopped at a light, does a tech driving up to a light and having the car stall really help him figure out the problem. Lots of people post problems in this newsgroup and lots of people have suggestions about what could cause that problem. Hopefully the techs are the shop have even more experience than some of the folks around this forum. Sure, in particularly stubborn cases, more is required. I had a Volvo that simply would not start in the morning when it was below zero. Everything checked out as fine. Finally the dealer kept the car overnight on a cold night, and found that when the computer was below zero, it quit working properly. Warm it up, and it worked just fine. But those cases are the exception. When I worked on cars many years ago, I found that 90% of the problems on any given car were repeats of what I'd seen before. Most I could diagnose without even seeing the car. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:47:49 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote: > >And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is >looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting >up. > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. Absolutely. And the shop had best be polite and also give it the old college try if they want to keep customers. I mean, being rude is stupid: The customer has a problem with the car, there's a reasonable chance the problem *will* manifest itself in larger ways soon, and the shop should want the customer to bring the car back to them when this happens. > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. Agreed. Also, I think it's pretty much S.O.P at shops for the technician to ask the service advisor to get the customer to leave the car overnight if it's a "cold morning start" problem. I've seen this at one dealer shop, with many customer's cars... If the technician can't nail the problem on the spot, it makes sense to me. > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. Absolutely. And the shop had best be polite and also give it the old college try if they want to keep customers. I mean, being rude is stupid: The customer has a problem with the car, there's a reasonable chance the problem *will* manifest itself in larger ways soon, and the shop should want the customer to bring the car back to them when this happens. > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. Agreed. Also, I think it's pretty much S.O.P at shops for the technician to ask the service advisor to get the customer to leave the car overnight if it's a "cold morning start" problem. I've seen this at one dealer shop, with many customer's cars... If the technician can't nail the problem on the spot, it makes sense to me. > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > >Steve Lee > >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > ...> > >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> > > well. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >> > >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > >> "wait" for something to happen. > > > >Agreed. > > > >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > >valuable time. > > > >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > > >Two cents. > > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Hi,
Some dealers attach a box to the car so it can gather info. If problem happens while it is attached, it'll record it. Like a incident memory box. Tony SoCalMike wrote: > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message > news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org... > >>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee >><hate@spam.com> wrote: >> >>...> >> >>>When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >>>advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >>>diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >>>I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >>>well. >>> >> >>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > "wait" for something to happen. > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re:Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Hi,
Some dealers attach a box to the car so it can gather info. If problem happens while it is attached, it'll record it. Like a incident memory box. Tony SoCalMike wrote: > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message > news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org... > >>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee >><hate@spam.com> wrote: >> >>...> >> >>>When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >>>advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >>>diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >>>I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >>>well. >>> >> >>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > "wait" for something to happen. > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
TL <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com: > Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a > problem. > > I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions > / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time > I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire > noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much > whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). > > Their responses as entered into the service slip ... > > Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and > right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the > car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way > depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to > be. These are very minor freeway crowns. Read Car and Driver;they often comment on the 'vagueness' of some model's on-center steering.Not every type or model of car is going to have the same handling/steering characteristics.Some models are 'drifty',some are 'tight'.That's why you test-drive different cars and make a decision as to what things you like about each model and choose according to your tastes. > None of my other cars did /do this. Were they 03 Accords,or some other make/model/body style? If not 03 Accords,this is meaningless. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to > find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. > > Tire noise - not excessive. Well,this is primarily dependent on tire design and pavement type.Did the noise CHANGE recently,or was it always like this? > > Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. Once again,was this always like this,or did it CHANGE after some time or occurrence? Did you try the sunroof when test-driving the car? Was is OK then? > > No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. > Just dismissed. > > It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. > Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's > normal. Have you driven other 03 Accords that did NOT have these 'problems'? If so,then perhaps it IS a problem(something broke) versus a 'design characteristic',something inherent in the model. Also,inquiring in newsgroups if other people have the same 'problems' helps a lot in determining if there really is a problem(something that can be repaired) or a design characteristic. -- Jim Yanik,NRA member remove null to contact me |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
TL <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com: > Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a > problem. > > I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions > / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time > I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire > noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much > whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). > > Their responses as entered into the service slip ... > > Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and > right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the > car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way > depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to > be. These are very minor freeway crowns. Read Car and Driver;they often comment on the 'vagueness' of some model's on-center steering.Not every type or model of car is going to have the same handling/steering characteristics.Some models are 'drifty',some are 'tight'.That's why you test-drive different cars and make a decision as to what things you like about each model and choose according to your tastes. > None of my other cars did /do this. Were they 03 Accords,or some other make/model/body style? If not 03 Accords,this is meaningless. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to > find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. > > Tire noise - not excessive. Well,this is primarily dependent on tire design and pavement type.Did the noise CHANGE recently,or was it always like this? > > Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. Once again,was this always like this,or did it CHANGE after some time or occurrence? Did you try the sunroof when test-driving the car? Was is OK then? > > No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. > Just dismissed. > > It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. > Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's > normal. Have you driven other 03 Accords that did NOT have these 'problems'? If so,then perhaps it IS a problem(something broke) versus a 'design characteristic',something inherent in the model. Also,inquiring in newsgroups if other people have the same 'problems' helps a lot in determining if there really is a problem(something that can be repaired) or a design characteristic. -- Jim Yanik,NRA member remove null to contact me |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote: > "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > Steve Lee > > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > > > ...> > > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > > "wait" for something to happen. > > Agreed. > > I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > valuable time. > > I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > Two cents. That's teh problem. They dont even try to get this far!!!!!!! No dialog!! |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote: > "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > Steve Lee > > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > > > ...> > > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > > "wait" for something to happen. > > Agreed. > > I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > valuable time. > > I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > Two cents. That's teh problem. They dont even try to get this far!!!!!!! No dialog!! |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com>, TL
<tlehman@visi.com> wrote: > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. > > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > Brand new at the time. Three separate dealers and district service manager who ran out of time to talk to me, and then was promoted before he could come back. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
In article <t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com>, TL
<tlehman@visi.com> wrote: > I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can > diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem > in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions > that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at > least where to start / what to check for that condition without having > to actually experience it themselves. > > The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the > car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some > obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the > case here or not, I don't know. > Brand new at the time. Three separate dealers and district service manager who ran out of time to talk to me, and then was promoted before he could come back. |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Boy is this subject line appropriate. I've got two Toyotas with this
problem / response. One I buy the line but the second vehicle (a near mint 11 year old Corolla) I don't buy it. It has a cold start problem and their way of diagnosing it is to do trial and error approach at MY cost. I've already left the car with them 3 days and they claimed the problem wouldn't replicate itself even tho they said the internals of the engine needed a bad cleaning so they had to know I was telling the truth based on this. I call their way of fixing cars "shade tree mechanics" at best. My wife said why can't they fix the cars if they have hi tech diagnostics nowadays. I don't know but I have to agree that it's most annoying to have a car and the shop says basically we can't fix it at this time. >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote: >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > >...> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> well. >> > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > >Listening Honda? ** remove .invalid from my email address to reply by email ** |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Boy is this subject line appropriate. I've got two Toyotas with this
problem / response. One I buy the line but the second vehicle (a near mint 11 year old Corolla) I don't buy it. It has a cold start problem and their way of diagnosing it is to do trial and error approach at MY cost. I've already left the car with them 3 days and they claimed the problem wouldn't replicate itself even tho they said the internals of the engine needed a bad cleaning so they had to know I was telling the truth based on this. I call their way of fixing cars "shade tree mechanics" at best. My wife said why can't they fix the cars if they have hi tech diagnostics nowadays. I don't know but I have to agree that it's most annoying to have a car and the shop says basically we can't fix it at this time. >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote: >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > >...> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as >> well. >> > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > >Listening Honda? ** remove .invalid from my email address to reply by email ** |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord tracks
straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no whistle at any speed. I recently took my 03 Accord in for an intermittent brake problem. On two occasions after first start up the car didn't want to stop for the first time. It had hard peddle but wasn't stopping. I brought it to the dealer and explained this to the service writer. He wrote this down and took the car. They gave me a loaner to drive while they tried to duplicate the problem. After a week I got the car back fixed. It seems that there was a bulletin dealing with this problem on East coast cars. I am very pleased with the service that I get from my local dealer. My suggestion is to try another dealer. "TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com... > Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a > problem. > > I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions > / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time > I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire > noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much > whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). > > Their responses as entered into the service slip ... > > Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and > right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the > car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way > depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to > be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did / > do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to > find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. > > Tire noise - not excessive. > > Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. > > No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. > Just dismissed. > > It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. > Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's > normal. > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) > wrote: > > >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > >...> > >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> well. > >> > > > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is > >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to > >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon > >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more > >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't > >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > > > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose > >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than > >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I > >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) > >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, > >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and > >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem > >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. > >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > > > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new > >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then > >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > > > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and > >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them > >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > > > >Listening Honda? > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord tracks
straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no whistle at any speed. I recently took my 03 Accord in for an intermittent brake problem. On two occasions after first start up the car didn't want to stop for the first time. It had hard peddle but wasn't stopping. I brought it to the dealer and explained this to the service writer. He wrote this down and took the car. They gave me a loaner to drive while they tried to duplicate the problem. After a week I got the car back fixed. It seems that there was a bulletin dealing with this problem on East coast cars. I am very pleased with the service that I get from my local dealer. My suggestion is to try another dealer. "TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com... > Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a > problem. > > I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions > / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time > I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire > noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much > whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds). > > Their responses as entered into the service slip ... > > Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and > right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the > car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way > depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to > be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did / > do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to > find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response. > > Tire noise - not excessive. > > Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise. > > No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all. > Just dismissed. > > It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away. > Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's > normal. > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) > wrote: > > >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee > ><hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > >...> > >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > >> well. > >> > > > >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is > >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to > >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon > >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more > >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't > >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.) > > > >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose > >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than > >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I > >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.) > >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right, > >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and > >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem > >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking. > >Combination of alignment and bad tires.] > > > >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new > >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then > >glad to pay. What a novel idea. > > > >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and > >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them > >happy??? And not just dismiss them. > > > >Listening Honda? > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can
leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having to pay a technician to do the same. "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net... > "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > Steve Lee > > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > > > ...> > > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > > "wait" for something to happen. > > Agreed. > > I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > valuable time. > > I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > Two cents. > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can
leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having to pay a technician to do the same. "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net... > "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote > > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote > Steve Lee > > > <hate@spam.com> wrote: > > > > > > ...> > > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the > > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't > > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician. > > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days. > > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had > > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy? > > > > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and > > "wait" for something to happen. > > Agreed. > > I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask > about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's > driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the > problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their > valuable time. > > I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on > the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out > this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the > non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily > pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong... > > Two cents. > > |
Re: if we can't duplicate it, we won't diagnose it" line; was Re: Does the TL/MDX/Pilot/Odyssey All Use the Same Transmission?
"Jerry Belluomini" <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote in
news:bi57e5$g0j$1@sass2141.sandia.gov: > The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord > tracks straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no > whistle at any speed. What's acceptable to YOU,may be excessive to others.Also,you may not have the same tires as the other guy,or be driving on different pavement.Maybe your tires are all of equal pressures,too. -- Jim Yanik,NRA member remove null to contact me |
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