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Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. ..the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive Camry. At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated disproportionately on our new stuff." But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 through March over a year earlier. Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was the market leader in South America. Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered from lack of awareness and appreciation. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Nomen Nescio" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:fdeb700fc63b511aacd25b0792eaf1de@dizum.com... > Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > > Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged > that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he > said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products > and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to > face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against > those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a > result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > > .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare > Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, > print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused > on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The > commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a > Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not in the same league as Honda's I4. > Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that > the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong > said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad > features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive > Camry. > > At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and > abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several > months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. > Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers > weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated > disproportionately on our new stuff." > See very few of them on the road -- the real eye opener is the Hyundai Sonata which is becoming very popular. > But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge > ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 > through March over a year earlier. > > Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford > Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy > problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle > took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there > was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was > the market leader in South America. > > Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of > the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred > http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle > declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but > he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered > from lack of awareness and appreciation. > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Nomen Nescio" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:fdeb700fc63b511aacd25b0792eaf1de@dizum.com... > Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > > Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged > that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he > said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products > and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to > face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against > those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a > result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > > .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare > Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, > print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused > on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The > commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a > Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not in the same league as Honda's I4. > Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that > the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong > said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad > features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive > Camry. > > At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and > abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several > months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. > Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers > weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated > disproportionately on our new stuff." > See very few of them on the road -- the real eye opener is the Hyundai Sonata which is becoming very popular. > But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge > ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 > through March over a year earlier. > > Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford > Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy > problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle > took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there > was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was > the market leader in South America. > > Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of > the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred > http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle > declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but > he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered > from lack of awareness and appreciation. > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message news:4U9_h.101549$2Q1.69816@newsfe16.lga... >> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The >> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >> > The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not > in the same league as Honda's I4. Consumer Repors noted that the Fusion I4 was noisy. They did not comment on the V-6 engine (but they did test it). I have a V-6 Fusion and don't find the engine harsh. It is much smoother and quieter than the V-6 in my Frontier or the I4 in my SO's RAV4. In the consumer comments section of the CR Website, the four people who made an entry all gave the Fusion 5 stars (top rating). The Accord only had 9 people commenting and they all gave the Accord five stars as well. Interestingly the Camry had many more people posting comments (147). I'd say the average Camry rating was 4 or maybe a little less. Plenty of 5 star ratings, but a number of 1, 2, and 3 star ratings as well. I also though it was interesting that 147 people commented on the Camry, while only 9 commented on the Accord, and 4 on the Fusion. The comments probably have no statistical meaning, but are interesting. I do have to wonder if this isn't an indication of the CR/Toyota love affair... Ed |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message news:4U9_h.101549$2Q1.69816@newsfe16.lga... >> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The >> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >> > The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not > in the same league as Honda's I4. Consumer Repors noted that the Fusion I4 was noisy. They did not comment on the V-6 engine (but they did test it). I have a V-6 Fusion and don't find the engine harsh. It is much smoother and quieter than the V-6 in my Frontier or the I4 in my SO's RAV4. In the consumer comments section of the CR Website, the four people who made an entry all gave the Fusion 5 stars (top rating). The Accord only had 9 people commenting and they all gave the Accord five stars as well. Interestingly the Camry had many more people posting comments (147). I'd say the average Camry rating was 4 or maybe a little less. Plenty of 5 star ratings, but a number of 1, 2, and 3 star ratings as well. I also though it was interesting that 147 people commented on the Camry, while only 9 commented on the Accord, and 4 on the Fusion. The comments probably have no statistical meaning, but are interesting. I do have to wonder if this isn't an indication of the CR/Toyota love affair... Ed |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
<Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >Camry. > >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >disproportionately on our new stuff." > >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >through March over a year earlier. > >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >the market leader in South America. > >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >from lack of awareness and appreciation. I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for most of the Chevy's. By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the choices of materials and other design features. On some of the Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
<Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >Camry. > >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >disproportionately on our new stuff." > >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >through March over a year earlier. > >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >the market leader in South America. > >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >from lack of awareness and appreciation. I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for most of the Chevy's. By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the choices of materials and other design features. On some of the Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message news:79qi33p6tded4usskkrl6t1f0ooak8ub4l@4ax.com... <...> > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs. It is a matter of taste. > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message news:79qi33p6tded4usskkrl6t1f0ooak8ub4l@4ax.com... <...> > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs. It is a matter of taste. > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Ashton Crusher wrote:
> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to immediately sell it for a profit somehow. Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception due to the price/performance combination until recently. I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration. His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at 37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down so often. Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they have no competition in that area. Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Ashton Crusher wrote:
> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to immediately sell it for a profit somehow. Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception due to the price/performance combination until recently. I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration. His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at 37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down so often. Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they have no competition in that area. Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs. > It is a matter of taste. Looks are a matter of taste and opinion, but quality and reliability can easily be measured and assessed. Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs. > It is a matter of taste. Looks are a matter of taste and opinion, but quality and reliability can easily be measured and assessed. Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"pws" <pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:4639d4f4$0$18855$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a >> basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > > Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, absolutely > never, buy another American car unless the intention is to immediately > sell it for a profit somehow. > > Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable > Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception due > to the price/performance combination until recently. > > I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it spending > one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty repairs, before > he finally sold it in frustration. > His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several > Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to > stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. Most people I know who have a Corvette never drive the car except on weekends if it is not raining. Not really a daily driver, I guess. > > Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a > neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at > 37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. > > Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say > about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down so > often. > > Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they > have no competition in that area. > > Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"pws" <pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:4639d4f4$0$18855$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a >> basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > > Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, absolutely > never, buy another American car unless the intention is to immediately > sell it for a profit somehow. > > Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable > Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception due > to the price/performance combination until recently. > > I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it spending > one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty repairs, before > he finally sold it in frustration. > His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several > Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to > stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. Most people I know who have a Corvette never drive the car except on weekends if it is not raining. Not really a daily driver, I guess. > > Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a > neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at > 37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. > > Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say > about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down so > often. > > Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they > have no competition in that area. > > Pat |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:18:34 -0500, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote: >Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > >Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, >absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to >immediately sell it for a profit somehow. > >Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable >Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception >due to the price/performance combination until recently. > >I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it >spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty >repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration. >His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several >Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to >stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. > >Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a >neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at >37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. > >Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say >about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down >so often. > >Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they >have no competition in that area. > >Pat I was only bitching about the styling. I have not found the mechanical quality to be a problem. We buy lots of domestics at work and I really don't see them going in for repairs very often, just regular prev maintenance. We've got a 95 Impala that was mine when it was new and is now assigned to someone else. The only things that ever went wrong with it in 12 years and 130,000 miles were two windows came off the tracks during it's first year. And the cheap plastic door panels need big washers now to hold them to the door. Gets 24 mpg on the highway with a big v-8. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:18:34 -0500, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote: >Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > >Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, >absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to >immediately sell it for a profit somehow. > >Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable >Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception >due to the price/performance combination until recently. > >I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it >spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty >repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration. >His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several >Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to >stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's. > >Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a >neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at >37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since. > >Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say >about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down >so often. > >Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they >have no competition in that area. > >Pat I was only bitching about the styling. I have not found the mechanical quality to be a problem. We buy lots of domestics at work and I really don't see them going in for repairs very often, just regular prev maintenance. We've got a 95 Impala that was mine when it was new and is now assigned to someone else. The only things that ever went wrong with it in 12 years and 130,000 miles were two windows came off the tracks during it's first year. And the cheap plastic door panels need big washers now to hold them to the door. Gets 24 mpg on the highway with a big v-8. |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio > > > > > > <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: > >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > > >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged > >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he > >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products > >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to > >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against > >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a > >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > > >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare > >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, > >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused > >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The > >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a > >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > > >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that > >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong > >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad > >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive > >Camry. > > >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and > >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several > >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. > >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers > >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated > >disproportionately on our new stuff." > > >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge > >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 > >through March over a year earlier. > > >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford > >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy > >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle > >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there > >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was > >the market leader in South America. > > >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of > >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred > >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle > >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but > >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered > >from lack of awareness and appreciation. > > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio > > > > > > <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: > >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 > > >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged > >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he > >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products > >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to > >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against > >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a > >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. > > >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare > >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, > >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused > >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The > >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a > >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. > > >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that > >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong > >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad > >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive > >Camry. > > >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and > >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several > >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. > >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers > >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated > >disproportionately on our new stuff." > > >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge > >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 > >through March over a year earlier. > > >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford > >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy > >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle > >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there > >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was > >the market leader in South America. > > >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of > >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred > >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle > >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but > >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered > >from lack of awareness and appreciation. > > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > most of the Chevy's. > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
bigjim@backpacker.com wrote:
> I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from > outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! > The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be > "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are > failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should > hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. > Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who > will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . apart from the repetitious xenophobia, this sounds like homer simpson designing the "canyonero". > > > On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio >> >> >> >> >> >> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >>> Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 >>> Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >>> that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >>> said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >>> and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >>> face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >>> those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >>> result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. >>> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >>> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >>> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >>> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The >>> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >>> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >>> Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >>> the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >>> said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >>> features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >>> Camry. >>> At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >>> abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >>> months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >>> Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >>> weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >>> disproportionately on our new stuff." >>> But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >>> ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >>> through March over a year earlier. >>> Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >>> Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >>> problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >>> took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >>> was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >>> the market leader in South America. >>> Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >>> the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >>> http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >>> declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >>> he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >> >from lack of awareness and appreciation. >> >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
bigjim@backpacker.com wrote:
> I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from > outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! > The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be > "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are > failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should > hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. > Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who > will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . apart from the repetitious xenophobia, this sounds like homer simpson designing the "canyonero". > > > On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio >> >> >> >> >> >> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >>> Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 >>> Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >>> that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >>> said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >>> and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >>> face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >>> those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >>> result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. >>> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >>> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >>> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >>> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The >>> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >>> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >>> Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >>> the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >>> said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >>> features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >>> Camry. >>> At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >>> abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >>> months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >>> Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >>> weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >>> disproportionately on our new stuff." >>> But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >>> ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >>> through March over a year earlier. >>> Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >>> Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >>> problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >>> took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >>> was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >>> the market leader in South America. >>> Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >>> the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >>> http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >>> declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >>> he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >> >from lack of awareness and appreciation. >> >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. <bigjim@backpacker.com> wrote in message news:1178363902.949444.319780@n76g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com... >I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from > outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! > The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be > "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are > failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should > hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. > Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who > will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . > > > On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio >> >> >> >> >> >> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 >> >> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. >> >> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The >> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >> >> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >> >Camry. >> >> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >> >disproportionately on our new stuff." >> >> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >> >through March over a year earlier. >> >> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >> >the market leader in South America. >> >> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >> >from lack of awareness and appreciation. >> >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- >> Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. <bigjim@backpacker.com> wrote in message news:1178363902.949444.319780@n76g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com... >I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from > outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!! > The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be > "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are > failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should > hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas. > Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who > will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target . > > > On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio >> >> >> >> >> >> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: >> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007 >> >> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged >> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he >> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products >> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to >> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against >> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a >> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone. >> >> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare >> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television, >> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused >> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The >> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a >> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name. >> >> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that >> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong >> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad >> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive >> >Camry. >> >> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and >> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several >> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch. >> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers >> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated >> >disproportionately on our new stuff." >> >> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge >> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007 >> >through March over a year earlier. >> >> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford >> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy >> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle >> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there >> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was >> >the market leader in South America. >> >> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of >> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred >> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle >> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but >> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered >> >from lack of awareness and appreciation. >> >> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs >> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on >> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for >> most of the Chevy's. >> >> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level >> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the >> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the >> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like >> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on >> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap >> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- >> Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite > nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company > car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. > Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder > and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you > could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at > around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles great. Great long-term quality. I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, etc. They all make good cars that last a long time. Just what models did your wife get? Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite > nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company > car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. > Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder > and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you > could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at > around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles great. Great long-term quality. I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, etc. They all make good cars that last a long time. Just what models did your wife get? Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> > "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message > news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time >> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. > > I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles > great. Great long-term quality. > > I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, > etc. > > They all make good cars that last a long time. that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. > > Just what models did your wife get? > > Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> > "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message > news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time >> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. > > I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles > great. Great long-term quality. > > I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, > etc. > > They all make good cars that last a long time. that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. > > Just what models did your wife get? > > Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Jeff wrote: >> >> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she >>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >> >> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >> great. Great long-term quality. >> >> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >> etc. >> >> They all make good cars that last a long time. > > that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of > the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than > 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond > repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked, > and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. Jeff >> >> Just what models did your wife get? >> >> Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Jeff wrote: >> >> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she >>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >> >> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >> great. Great long-term quality. >> >> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >> etc. >> >> They all make good cars that last a long time. > > that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of > the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than > 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond > repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked, > and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. Jeff >> >> Just what models did your wife get? >> >> Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On May 3, 5:18 am, pws <pwshel...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote: > > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > > most of the Chevy's. > > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > > Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, > absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to > immediately sell it for a profit somehow. > > Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable > Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception > due to the price/performance combination until recently. > i'd say that fusion is miles ahead of toyolet camry. if i needed a midsize pigster i'd buy accord but if there was no accord and the choice is fusion or camry it's a no brainer. i'm surprised toyolet sells so many of these couches on wheels while there are comparable and better cars like fusion, but, then, there are a ton of priuses bought by someone so i digress |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
On May 3, 5:18 am, pws <pwshel...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote: > > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs > > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on > > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for > > most of the Chevy's. > > > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level > > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the > > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the > > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like > > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on > > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap > > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line. > > Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, > absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to > immediately sell it for a profit somehow. > > Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable > Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception > due to the price/performance combination until recently. > i'd say that fusion is miles ahead of toyolet camry. if i needed a midsize pigster i'd buy accord but if there was no accord and the choice is fusion or camry it's a no brainer. i'm surprised toyolet sells so many of these couches on wheels while there are comparable and better cars like fusion, but, then, there are a ton of priuses bought by someone so i digress |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Jeff wrote: >>> >>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a >>>> new company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the >>>> 30K miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, >>>> they seem to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a >>>> couple of the vehicles you could feel the transmission start to >>>> slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait >>>> to get rid of it. >>> >>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and >>> handles great. Great long-term quality. >>> >>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, >>> Hondas, etc. >>> >>> They all make good cars that last a long time. >> >> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and >> mileage of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas >> younger than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been >> smashed beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years >> vintage being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. > > Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. define "a long time". and state which models you have in mind. bottom line, you're making a blanket statement that is not supported by the facts. junk yards are the true exhibition of a vehicle's viability. if detroit product starts showing up in junk yards TEN YEARS before nippon product, using language like "long term quality" is simply self-delusional. it's even more self-delusional when you consider that nippon manufacturers make their vehicles here, from locally sourced parts, and /still/ detroit can't compete. why? because detroit doesn't want to. they have a buyer base that continues to buy their over-priced, unreliable, poor quality junk regardless of logic or economics. and as long as people are that stupid, the rip-off will continue. it's not like it's even supporting many american jobs - detroit's busily outsourcing component manufacture to china as fast as it can. want to save american jobs? buy japanese! > > Jeff > >>> >>> Just what models did your wife get? >>> >>> Jeff > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Jeff wrote: >>> >>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a >>>> new company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the >>>> 30K miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, >>>> they seem to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a >>>> couple of the vehicles you could feel the transmission start to >>>> slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait >>>> to get rid of it. >>> >>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and >>> handles great. Great long-term quality. >>> >>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, >>> Hondas, etc. >>> >>> They all make good cars that last a long time. >> >> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and >> mileage of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas >> younger than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been >> smashed beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years >> vintage being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. > > Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. define "a long time". and state which models you have in mind. bottom line, you're making a blanket statement that is not supported by the facts. junk yards are the true exhibition of a vehicle's viability. if detroit product starts showing up in junk yards TEN YEARS before nippon product, using language like "long term quality" is simply self-delusional. it's even more self-delusional when you consider that nippon manufacturers make their vehicles here, from locally sourced parts, and /still/ detroit can't compete. why? because detroit doesn't want to. they have a buyer base that continues to buy their over-priced, unreliable, poor quality junk regardless of logic or economics. and as long as people are that stupid, the rip-off will continue. it's not like it's even supporting many american jobs - detroit's busily outsourcing component manufacture to china as fast as it can. want to save american jobs? buy japanese! > > Jeff > >>> >>> Just what models did your wife get? >>> >>> Jeff > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Let's see if I can remember them all
Jeep Cherokee - The worst. This thing was in the shop ever few months. brake, transmission and axel problems. She went over some train tracks once, not hard mind you and the steering wheel became off center. The steering wheel always look like she was turning left even when she was driving straight. This happened twice. Ford Escape - great for the first 35K, then got noisy and the transmission started slipping. Dodge Grand Caravan - was okay Ford Windstar knobs and parts started falling off within the first few thousand miles. We only had this car for about 20K, she then changed jobs. Pontiac Grand Prix was okay, then developed a a clicking in the steering wheel. The steering wasn't smooth, you could feel while turning. Chevrolet Equinox- only had this one for 8K, job change again. Was fairly nice vehicle. Ride was way too soft though, felt like we were floating. "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:T%1%h.176$HR1.174@trnddc01... > > "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message > news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite >> nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company >> car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. >> Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder >> and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you >> could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at >> around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. > > I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles > great. Great long-term quality. > > I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, > etc. > > They all make good cars that last a long time. > > Just what models did your wife get? > > Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Let's see if I can remember them all
Jeep Cherokee - The worst. This thing was in the shop ever few months. brake, transmission and axel problems. She went over some train tracks once, not hard mind you and the steering wheel became off center. The steering wheel always look like she was turning left even when she was driving straight. This happened twice. Ford Escape - great for the first 35K, then got noisy and the transmission started slipping. Dodge Grand Caravan - was okay Ford Windstar knobs and parts started falling off within the first few thousand miles. We only had this car for about 20K, she then changed jobs. Pontiac Grand Prix was okay, then developed a a clicking in the steering wheel. The steering wasn't smooth, you could feel while turning. Chevrolet Equinox- only had this one for 8K, job change again. Was fairly nice vehicle. Ride was way too soft though, felt like we were floating. "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:T%1%h.176$HR1.174@trnddc01... > > "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message > news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite >> nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company >> car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. >> Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder >> and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you >> could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at >> around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. > > I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles > great. Great long-term quality. > > I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, > etc. > > They all make good cars that last a long time. > > Just what models did your wife get? > > Jeff |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:ZqadnUelPJDKI6HbnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Jeff wrote: >> >> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >>> Jeff wrote: >>>> >>>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >>>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>>>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>>>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>>>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>>>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time >>>>> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >>>> >>>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >>>> great. Great long-term quality. >>>> >>>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> They all make good cars that last a long time. >>> >>> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage >>> of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger >>> than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed >>> beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage >>> being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. >> >> Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. > > define "a long time". and state which models you have in mind. Ford Contour, Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, Mercury Mistake and Ford Escort, Ford F150, Chevy Silverado, Dodge Ram. I am not sure which GM and Diamler/Chrysler cars go a long way. > bottom line, you're making a blanket statement that is not supported by > the facts. Gee, some of the Michigan 3 models is not a blanket statement. > junk yards are the true exhibition of a vehicle's viability. And there were more American cars sold than Japanese cars. > if detroit product starts showing up in junk yards TEN YEARS before > nippon product, using language like "long term quality" is simply > self-delusional. I did not know Nippon made cars. > it's even more self-delusional when you consider that nippon manufacturers > make their vehicles here, from locally sourced parts, and /still/ detroit > can't compete. why? because detroit doesn't want to. In your opinion. > they have a buyer base that continues to buy their over-priced, > unreliable, poor quality junk regardless of logic or economics. and as > long as people are that stupid, the rip-off will continue. it's not like > it's even supporting many american jobs - detroit's busily outsourcing > component manufacture to china as fast as it can. want to save american > jobs? buy japanese! About 75% to 80% of American-brand car components are made in the US vs. about 50% for Toyota and Honda. Get a clue a man. If you can find one. Jeff >> Jeff >> >>>> >>>> Just what models did your wife get? >>>> >>>> Jeff >> |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:ZqadnUelPJDKI6HbnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Jeff wrote: >> >> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >>> Jeff wrote: >>>> >>>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >>>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>>>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>>>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>>>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>>>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time >>>>> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >>>> >>>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >>>> great. Great long-term quality. >>>> >>>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> They all make good cars that last a long time. >>> >>> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage >>> of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger >>> than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed >>> beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage >>> being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage. >> >> Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them. > > define "a long time". and state which models you have in mind. Ford Contour, Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, Mercury Mistake and Ford Escort, Ford F150, Chevy Silverado, Dodge Ram. I am not sure which GM and Diamler/Chrysler cars go a long way. > bottom line, you're making a blanket statement that is not supported by > the facts. Gee, some of the Michigan 3 models is not a blanket statement. > junk yards are the true exhibition of a vehicle's viability. And there were more American cars sold than Japanese cars. > if detroit product starts showing up in junk yards TEN YEARS before > nippon product, using language like "long term quality" is simply > self-delusional. I did not know Nippon made cars. > it's even more self-delusional when you consider that nippon manufacturers > make their vehicles here, from locally sourced parts, and /still/ detroit > can't compete. why? because detroit doesn't want to. In your opinion. > they have a buyer base that continues to buy their over-priced, > unreliable, poor quality junk regardless of logic or economics. and as > long as people are that stupid, the rip-off will continue. it's not like > it's even supporting many american jobs - detroit's busily outsourcing > component manufacture to china as fast as it can. want to save american > jobs? buy japanese! About 75% to 80% of American-brand car components are made in the US vs. about 50% for Toyota and Honda. Get a clue a man. If you can find one. Jeff >> Jeff >> >>>> >>>> Just what models did your wife get? >>>> >>>> Jeff >> |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message news:YIqdnaG7s-5JIqHbnZ2dnUVZ_oKnnZ2d@comcast.com... > Let's see if I can remember them all > Jeep Cherokee - The worst. My uncle had a Jeep Cherokee that went over 200,000 mi without problems or even replacing the brake pads. It was kind of cold in the winter though. Needed a new thermostat. >This thing was in the shop ever few months. > brake, transmission and axel problems. She went over some train tracks > once, not hard mind you and the steering wheel became off center. The > steering wheel always look like she was turning left even when she was > driving straight. This happened twice. > > Ford Escape - great for the first 35K, then got noisy and the transmission > started slipping. > > Dodge Grand Caravan - was okay > > Ford Windstar knobs and parts started falling off within the first few > thousand miles. We only had this car for about 20K, she then changed jobs. > > Pontiac Grand Prix was okay, then developed a a clicking in the steering > wheel. The steering wasn't smooth, you could feel while turning. > > Chevrolet Equinox- only had this one for 8K, job change again. Was fairly > nice vehicle. Ride was way too soft though, felt like we were floating. Likewise, you're going to find people who have had excellent service from these vehicles and others who didn't. Likewise for the Toyotas and Hondas. Jeff > "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message > news:T%1%h.176$HR1.174@trnddc01... >> >> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she >>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >> >> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >> great. Great long-term quality. >> >> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >> etc. >> >> They all make good cars that last a long time. >> >> Just what models did your wife get? >> >> Jeff > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message news:YIqdnaG7s-5JIqHbnZ2dnUVZ_oKnnZ2d@comcast.com... > Let's see if I can remember them all > Jeep Cherokee - The worst. My uncle had a Jeep Cherokee that went over 200,000 mi without problems or even replacing the brake pads. It was kind of cold in the winter though. Needed a new thermostat. >This thing was in the shop ever few months. > brake, transmission and axel problems. She went over some train tracks > once, not hard mind you and the steering wheel became off center. The > steering wheel always look like she was turning left even when she was > driving straight. This happened twice. > > Ford Escape - great for the first 35K, then got noisy and the transmission > started slipping. > > Dodge Grand Caravan - was okay > > Ford Windstar knobs and parts started falling off within the first few > thousand miles. We only had this car for about 20K, she then changed jobs. > > Pontiac Grand Prix was okay, then developed a a clicking in the steering > wheel. The steering wasn't smooth, you could feel while turning. > > Chevrolet Equinox- only had this one for 8K, job change again. Was fairly > nice vehicle. Ride was way too soft though, felt like we were floating. Likewise, you're going to find people who have had excellent service from these vehicles and others who didn't. Likewise for the Toyotas and Hondas. Jeff > "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message > news:T%1%h.176$HR1.174@trnddc01... >> >> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new >>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K >>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem >>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the >>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she >>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it. >> >> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles >> great. Great long-term quality. >> >> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, >> etc. >> >> They all make good cars that last a long time. >> >> Just what models did your wife get? >> >> Jeff > |
Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
Jeff wrote: > > "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message > news:YIqdnaG7s-5JIqHbnZ2dnUVZ_oKnnZ2d@comcast.com... >> Let's see if I can remember them all >> Jeep Cherokee - The worst. > > My uncle had a Jeep Cherokee that went over 200,000 mi without problems > or even replacing the brake pads. It was kind of cold in the winter > though. Needed a new thermostat. > >> This thing was in the shop ever few months. >> brake, transmission and axel problems. She went over some train tracks >> once, not hard mind you and the steering wheel became off center. The >> steering wheel always look like she was turning left even when she was >> driving straight. This happened twice. >> >> Ford Escape - great for the first 35K, then got noisy and the >> transmission >> started slipping. >> >> Dodge Grand Caravan - was okay >> >> Ford Windstar knobs and parts started falling off within the first few >> thousand miles. We only had this car for about 20K, she then changed >> jobs. >> >> Pontiac Grand Prix was okay, then developed a a clicking in the steering >> wheel. The steering wasn't smooth, you could feel while turning. >> >> Chevrolet Equinox- only had this one for 8K, job change again. Was fairly >> nice vehicle. Ride was way too soft though, felt like we were floating. > > Likewise, you're going to find people who have had excellent service > from these vehicles and others who didn't. Likewise for the Toyotas and > Hondas. > > Jeff > Also, company cars get the snot beat out of them. They never last. My last company car, a Taurus, had to be traded in at 220,000 mi. ("it might start getting unreliable" they said). My current company car, another Taurus, is at 189,00 mi. now, & they'll probably make me turn in that one too at ~220,000 mi. next year. Bastards. They should buy some quality vehicles that last next time. Rob >> "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message >> news:T%1%h.176$HR1.174@trnddc01... >>> >>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message >>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look >>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a >>>> new company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the >>>> 30K miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, >>>> they seem to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a >>>> couple of the vehicles you could feel the transmission start to >>>> slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait >>>> to get rid of it. >>> >>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and >>> handles great. Great long-term quality. >>> >>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, >>> Hondas, etc. >>> >>> They all make good cars that last a long time. >>> >>> Just what models did your wife get? >>> >>> Jeff >> > |
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