Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:Xx6Il.63660$_R4.4375@newsfe11.iad:

> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
> full engine power to get the best economy.
>



As I and my car have gotten older, my lead foot has decomposed into a
somewhat lighter oxide compound, but I still drive the way I like (an eye
out for the cops...). My 'Teg now has over 320,000 miles on it, and I still
get 29mpg while haring around corners in a manner that keeps me awake. I
think that's pretty good. Better than the 13mpg my old '76 Dodge Coronet
got, anyway.

More power to you if you decide to try and squeeze 50mpg out of a gallon
that God never meant to crush down that far, but such discipline would
drive me nuts. Your post makes me think of somebody trying to see just how
long he could wear the itchiest wool socks he could find without scratching
even once. No thanks.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
full engine power to get the best economy.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Leftie wrote:

> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
> full engine power to get the best economy.

I regularly get 40mpg on the highway with my 2004 Civic LX automatic. I
usually drive about 10mph over the speed limit, and my driving style is
moderate but not heavy or light. I have my tire pressures about 2psi over
what Honda recommends, and I use regular unleaded fuel (87 octane).

Speaking of tires, I just replaced the horrible Bridgestone Insignia's with
a set of Falken Ziex ZE912's, so I'll have to see how much the step up in
performance will affect my mileage, if at all.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Leftie wrote:

> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
> full engine power to get the best economy.


It's a shame that hypermiling gets such bad press. I'm doing much the
same as you, and get high 30s (city and highway) in an old Accord wagon.
Having a manual transmission helps; you can coast in neutral and
accelerate with the engine in it's most efficient RPM/Throttle envelope
without the transmission downshifting. Back last summer, when gas was
4$, I had a fair number of people ask about my mileage. When I told
them, there was often a mild backlash accompanied by the accusation,
"Oh, you're one of those hypermilers." I then had to explain that I was
a 'good' hypermiler. :) I watch my mirrors, try never to hold up
traffic, don't run red lights, etc. I may not get 60MPG, but I'm not
tearing up my car or becoming a traffic hazard.

I'd argue that anyone exceeding EPA is a 'hypermiler,' but agree that
some of the hardcore techniques do little except alienate the average
driver. We've all seen the news segments - "See how Wayne gets 65MPG!"
Most people are curious, but react with a giant 'WTF?' when they see
one of the HM 'stars' putting down the road trailing a queue of pissed
off commuters, turning the ignition off while moving, taking freeway
exits at clearly unsafe speeds, pushing the frigging car across parking
lots, bragging 'my tires have 70psi,' and engaging in other hare-brained
behavior. If HM proponents could keep their ego in check and act in a
less OCD fashion they might manage to get somewhere in terms of
educating the public. Simply teaching people to anticipate those #$%^
traffic lights will instantly increase Joe Sixpack's city mileage by
10~20%

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Thus spake Leftie <No@Thanks.net> :

> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
>sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
>because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
>but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
>getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
>to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
>run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
>and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
>stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
>less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
>full engine power to get the best economy.

Running your tires at 38 psi may be bad for them and dangerous for
you. When you heat those puppies up to 200 F or so (get a pyrometer)
you'll probably be around 45. Which is probably near the realistic
limits. Also, you are changing the shape of the tire and the wear.
And, unless you've changed your struts up, your handling is worse. And
don't get me started on wet weather driving.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

The RMS Titanic sank on April 15th. US income taxes
are due on April 15th. Coincidence? I think not.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Dillon Pyron wrote:

> Running your tires at 38 psi may be bad for them and dangerous for
> you. When you heat those puppies up to 200 F or so (get a pyrometer)
> you'll probably be around 45. Which is probably near the realistic
> limits. Also, you are changing the shape of the tire and the wear.
> And, unless you've changed your struts up, your handling is worse. And
> don't get me started on wet weather driving.

FWLIW, 38PSI cold is about right for my 92 Accord. The factory
specifies 32PSI, but that gave me a _lot_ of excess edge wear. Hot
pressures are, as you guessed, mid 40s. This is great on the freeway,
but firm enough make you watch for potholes and whatnot. Any dirt road
travel strongly 'encourages' you to soften things up!

Wet weather performance (resistance to hydroplaning) actually improves
with increased pressure.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:Xx6Il.63660$_R4.4375@newsfe11.iad:
>
>> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
>> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
>> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
>> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
>> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
>> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
>> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
>> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
>> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
>> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
>> full engine power to get the best economy.
>>
>
>
>
> As I and my car have gotten older, my lead foot has decomposed into a
> somewhat lighter oxide compound, but I still drive the way I like (an eye
> out for the cops...). My 'Teg now has over 320,000 miles on it, and I still
> get 29mpg while haring around corners in a manner that keeps me awake. I
> think that's pretty good. Better than the 13mpg my old '76 Dodge Coronet
> got, anyway.
>
> More power to you if you decide to try and squeeze 50mpg out of a gallon
> that God never meant to crush down that far, but such discipline would
> drive me nuts. Your post makes me think of somebody trying to see just how
> long he could wear the itchiest wool socks he could find without scratching
> even once. No thanks.
>
>

The funny thing is, I don't drive the way you picture. I've always
loved fast cornering, and that can save gas, so I still do it. And once
in a while I still accelerate briskly. I'm not tempted to do it often,
though, because this '95 EX is a Dog compared to my old series one Si.
The gearing is just too tall to make driving fun. It's got *two*
overdrives, for crying out loud...

I'm having trouble with my newsgroup ISP, so apologies for any
duplicate or missing posts.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake Leftie <No@Thanks.net> :
>
>> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
>> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
>> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
>> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
>> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
>> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
>> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
>> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
>> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
>> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
>> full engine power to get the best economy.
>
> Running your tires at 38 psi may be bad for them and dangerous for
> you. When you heat those puppies up to 200 F or so (get a pyrometer)
> you'll probably be around 45. Which is probably near the realistic
> limits. Also, you are changing the shape of the tire and the wear.
> And, unless you've changed your struts up, your handling is worse. And
> don't get me started on wet weather driving.


You're mistaken. The tires are rated for 44psi, and while *that*
might damage them, I always replace my tires because of age, with lots
of tread left on them, running them at 38.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Greg Campbell wrote:
> Leftie wrote:
>
>> I just averaged 50mpg on a quarter tank of gas with my '95 Civic EX
>> sedan. That's the highest I've ever gotten, and it's not representative
>> because of the small sample and because that driving was 90% highway,
>> but I still find it impressive. What other high numbers are you folks
>> getting? BTW, I practice 'Super-Miling' which is just modest, safe steps
>> to increase economy, unlike 'Hyper-Miling,' which can be dangerous. I
>> run the tires at 38psi cold, coast with the engine *on* when possible,
>> and accelerate gently. I also try to 'time' lights so I don't have to
>> stop more than necessary. I generally get about 41mpg in Summer, a few
>> less in Winter. I use midgrade gas because the gearing is so high I need
>> full engine power to get the best economy.
>
>
> It's a shame that hypermiling gets such bad press. I'm doing much the
> same as you, and get high 30s (city and highway) in an old Accord wagon.
> Having a manual transmission helps; you can coast in neutral and
> accelerate with the engine in it's most efficient RPM/Throttle envelope
> without the transmission downshifting. Back last summer, when gas was
> 4$, I had a fair number of people ask about my mileage. When I told
> them, there was often a mild backlash accompanied by the accusation,
> "Oh, you're one of those hypermilers." I then had to explain that I was
> a 'good' hypermiler. :) I watch my mirrors, try never to hold up
> traffic, don't run red lights, etc. I may not get 60MPG, but I'm not
> tearing up my car or becoming a traffic hazard.
>
> I'd argue that anyone exceeding EPA is a 'hypermiler,' but agree that
> some of the hardcore techniques do little except alienate the average
> driver. We've all seen the news segments - "See how Wayne gets 65MPG!"
> Most people are curious, but react with a giant 'WTF?' when they see
> one of the HM 'stars' putting down the road trailing a queue of pissed
> off commuters, turning the ignition off while moving, taking freeway
> exits at clearly unsafe speeds, pushing the frigging car across parking
> lots, bragging 'my tires have 70psi,' and engaging in other hare-brained
> behavior. If HM proponents could keep their ego in check and act in a
> less OCD fashion they might manage to get somewhere in terms of
> educating the public. Simply teaching people to anticipate those #$%^
> traffic lights will instantly increase Joe Sixpack's city mileage by 10~20%


Agreed. Slightly higher tire pressure, reasonable acceleration,
and some coasting instead of always having one foot pressing a pedal can
usually save at least 10%.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

In article <3p52v4hui7nn4dtv6q8jl75mnnqd95f6ol@4ax.com>,
Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Running your tires at 38 psi may be bad for them and dangerous for
> you. When you heat those puppies up to 200 F or so (get a pyrometer)
> you'll probably be around 45. Which is probably near the realistic
> limits.

The tires are stamped with their maximum cold pressures, and the
manufacturers give those specs knowing exactly what will happen when the
tire heats up.

If the tire is specified to take 38psi or more, then there's no danger.
It may go up to 45 or even 50psi when run on the freeway on a hot day;
the tire manufacturer has taken all of that into account for you.

My Prius specifies 36psi, for God's sake.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

In article <A%7Il.106178$%k2.26968@newsfe07.iad>,
Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net> wrote:

> It's a shame that hypermiling gets such bad press.

More correctly, hyperMILERS are responsible for the bad press.

You know who practices regular "hypermiling"? Selfish assholes.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9BF6C67C2B4B4tegger@208.90.168.18...
> Your post makes me think of somebody trying to see just how
> long he could wear the itchiest wool socks he could find without
> scratching even once. No thanks.

Exactly the same feeling I am getting.

And for what reason person can torture themselves?

It is for the global warming and to save Mother Earth? :-)
Probably not...

It is probably to save 5-6 dollars when refueling the tank
and spend it later on a prematurely blown tires or repair
and medical bills after a crash on slippery road after rain...

BTW - is there any reason at all for running Civic on mid grade gas?
This engine was designed to run on regular, so there is no knoking
which can be avoided using higher octane gasoline...

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

I keep a mile log of each fill up for my 2004 VP.
Pretty much 34 mpg whole year over last three years-
includes winte/summer ethanol mixes and city/highway/mountain driving.
On a summer road trip I might get 42.

I have to watch out for single-fillup numbers.
I just let the gas pump shut off when it does. Sometimes
it might shut off early or late, skewing the single tank
number by up to a gallon wither way. It might take three
fillups to average out.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

On 4/24/09 9:02 AM, in article gsrvcr.1sk.0@poczta.onet.pl, "Pszemol"
<Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:

>
> BTW - is there any reason at all for running Civic on mid grade gas?
> This engine was designed to run on regular, so there is no knoking
> which can be avoided using higher octane gasoline...
>

They all have knock sensors that will make any knocking immediately
disappear, probably before you even notice that its doing it, regardless of
what gas you use vs. what was actually spec'd for the car.

There was some traffic from Honda several years ago that indicated some of
the cars were actually designed for premium fuel and would give better
mileage and performance if it is used, but rated for regular and depended on
the knock sensor to make it all work.

The way to find out if yours is one of those is to run several tanks of
higher octane fuel in it. If the mileage is consistently better then you
can benefit from it. If it isn't, stick with regular. AFAIK, all the
Civics are designed for regular.

Re: Highest MPG for Non-Hybrids?
 

Pszemol wrote:

> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message

>> Your post makes me think of somebody trying to see just how
>> long he could wear the itchiest wool socks he could find without
>> scratching even once. No thanks.

LOL

Sheesh guys, it's not that horrible! :)
With a manual transmission, you DO get to apply the gas. Peak
efficiency with a fixed valve timing engine generally occurs in the
middle RPM range, at 30~70% of full throttle. This gives you more than
enough power to hold your own vs. average traffic. Driving the 40MPH
multi-lane streets, I short shift with moderate throttle, and work up to
a 'good shove in 4th' that equates to ~45mph. From there, it's all
about second guessing any upcoming lights. If I'm likely to catch a red
light, I'll slow (or occasionally speed up a little!) so as to maximize
the odds of it being green when I arrive. This has more to do with
paying attention than putting along at absurdly slow speeds.

> And for what reason person can torture themselves?

:P

Oh, dear! You've been watching those poor OCD afflicted hypermiler
fools on the news. I try not to torture myself, my car, or anyone else
on the road.

> It is for the global warming and to save Mother Earth? :-)
> Probably not...

Mother Earth was screwed the day we made fire. :)

> It is probably to save 5-6 dollars when refueling the tank
> and spend it later on a prematurely blown tires or repair
> and medical bills after a crash on slippery road after rain...

I'm getting ~50+% better mileage than several people I know who also own
4th gen. Accords. At 4$ a gallon, the savings was about $20 a tank.

Why prematurely blown tires? Higher pressure results in less heating
and lower operating temperatures. As mentioned, my tires wear more
evenly at 36~38PSI than at the factory suggested pressure. Tire life is
enhanced.

And why on earth does everyone assume that 'over' inflated tires have no
grip in the rain? =:o

-Moo