Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"Spazpop2000" <spaz_pop@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:vgoko1hcfeiqt6dlevd7vee4nd2pidamup@4ax.com...
> Oh yeah- our 2004 Civic Hybrid (automatic) is averaging 42.7 mpg over
> 25,000 miles with a mix of about 50% city driving and 50% rural
> road/hwy driving (hwy speeds usually around 70-80 mph)...
>
I get 38-39 on a 03 Civic LX 5 spd with a mix of about 75% highway and 25%
urban driving. Speed 75-80.

> We're pretty happy with our car, although the A/C cutting off with the
> engine at stops can be a little annoying on hot days (I believe the
> 2006 model has an electric compressor that runs the A/C even when the
> car stops at intersections)
>
> We are seriously considering an '06 Accord Hybrid as a second car for
> our household, although we would be more inclined if they had mated
> the IMA with the 4-cylinder (even better fuel economy, and the 4-cyl
> does a pretty good job at moving the car on its own).
>
> Cheers!
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:58:13 GMT, "Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I bought a 2004 Civic Hybrid about a year and a half ago, and have been
VERY
> >happy with it. At this point, my average mileage, according to the panel
> >display is 42 mpg. I use it mostly in town and avoid freeways whenever
> >possible. Highway mileage is a bit better if I keep my speed at 65, but
> >drops pretty precipitately at speeds over 70.
> >
> >I'm just wondering how this compares with the experience of other Civic
> >Hybrid owners.
> >

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

flobert wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 03:05:43 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>muzz wrote:
>>
>>>After 2 years, I'm getting 33 summer 34 winter - very unhappy - dealer
>>>checked, nothing showed up. 85 percent town driving.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Rechargeable batteries take less and less of a charge as they accumulate
>>cycles. I very much wonder if this effect results in dropping fuel
>>economy over time with hybrids.
>
>
> not true, certainly not anywhere near true enough to be used as a
> blanket statement. In many cases, its as much straight time as cycles,
> and in other battery types, its mainly dependant on the type of cycle.
>
>

Splitting hairs a bit here, aren't you? The point is that rechargeable
batteries become less and less effective as they age and eventually fail
to take a charge at all.

John

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"muzz" <jmuzz@charter.net> wrote in message
news:bubko1h8q50e0m3qkpglm6hptmj81tohcm@4ax.com...
> After 2 years, I'm getting 33 summer 34 winter - very unhappy - dealer
> checked, nothing showed up. 85 percent town driving.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:58:13 GMT, "Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I bought a 2004 Civic Hybrid about a year and a half ago, and have been
>>VERY
>>happy with it. At this point, my average mileage, according to the panel
>>display is 42 mpg. I use it mostly in town and avoid freeways whenever
>>possible. Highway mileage is a bit better if I keep my speed at 65, but
>>drops pretty precipitately at speeds over 70.
>>
>>I'm just wondering how this compares with the experience of other Civic
>>Hybrid owners.

I just upped my tire pressure all around from 28 psi to 40psi, and saw an
IMMEDIATE improvement of 5.5 mpg in town driving--from 42 to 46.5 mpg. I
expect to see an even greater improvement at 60 mpg. Max pressure for OEM
tires is 55 psi.

Low air pressure could account for your poor gas mileage.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

Have you checked around to see if such a high pressure (to
me) is safe?

Maybe it is, but I'd at least google.

Off the top of my head, I would expect the tires to heat up
while driving, and so raise the pressure, perhaps
dangerously close to the design limit.

"Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com> wrote
> I just upped my tire pressure all around from 28 psi to
40psi, and saw an
> IMMEDIATE improvement of 5.5 mpg in town driving--from 42
to 46.5 mpg. I
> expect to see an even greater improvement at 60 mpg. Max
pressure for OEM
> tires is 55 psi.
>
> Low air pressure could account for your poor gas mileage.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

In article <nvrjf.10916$aA2.2572@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink .net>,
"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Have you checked around to see if such a high pressure (to
> me) is safe?
>
> Maybe it is, but I'd at least google.

The very first thing to do is look for the manufacturer's recommended
tire pressures, and start there. 28 sounds awfully low for a hybrid.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nvrjf.10916$aA2.2572@newsread2.news.atl.earth link.net...
> Have you checked around to see if such a high pressure (to
> me) is safe?
>
> Maybe it is, but I'd at least google.
>
> Off the top of my head, I would expect the tires to heat up
> while driving, and so raise the pressure, perhaps
> dangerously close to the design limit.
>
> "Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com> wrote
>> I just upped my tire pressure all around from 28 psi to
> 40psi, and saw an
>> IMMEDIATE improvement of 5.5 mpg in town driving--from 42
> to 46.5 mpg. I
>> expect to see an even greater improvement at 60 mpg. Max
> pressure for OEM
>> tires is 55 psi.
>>
>> Low air pressure could account for your poor gas mileage.
>
As I said in my previous post, the maximum air pressure shown on the tire is
55 psi. I'd feel completely safe going to 45 psi. So far, I can't feel any
bad effects in the ride--just a tad stiffer. I'd say it actually rides very
well.

Incidentally, running the tires on my Grand Caravan at 38psi makes for a
better ride than the recommended 30.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

Morgan Groves wrote:

> As I said in my previous post, the maximum air pressure shown on the tire is
> 55 psi. I'd feel completely safe going to 45 psi. So far, I can't feel any
> bad effects in the ride--just a tad stiffer. I'd say it actually rides very
> well.

What does it say on the sticker inside the driver's door jamb?

On my '93 Accord, the recommended pressure specified by Honda on the
sticker is 29psi, and my current all season tires specify a maximum
pressure of 44psi. I usually put 30-32psi in them. But one time I tried
it at about 35psi, and it felt too jittery for my liking. I didn't keep
it like that long enough to see how it affected my gas mileage.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

High Tech Misfit wrote:
> Morgan Groves wrote:
>
>
>>As I said in my previous post, the maximum air pressure shown on the tire is
>>55 psi. I'd feel completely safe going to 45 psi. So far, I can't feel any
>>bad effects in the ride--just a tad stiffer. I'd say it actually rides very
>>well.
>
>
> What does it say on the sticker inside the driver's door jamb?
>
> On my '93 Accord, the recommended pressure specified by Honda on the
> sticker is 29psi, and my current all season tires specify a maximum
> pressure of 44psi. I usually put 30-32psi in them. But one time I tried
> it at about 35psi, and it felt too jittery for my liking. I didn't keep
> it like that long enough to see how it affected my gas mileage.

yeah, it kind of amazes me that there are so many "but it says 45 on the
tire" people out there. do they also drive 120 because that's what is
says on their speedo? logic dictates they should.

fact is, honda, who know far more about the dynamics of their vehicles
than i suspect do /any/ of us. not following their advice is going to
have negative results. and /i/ can attest to that from recent
experience. i have an 89 civic dx hatch, and have a set of si tires on
it. what i didn't know, not /owning/ an si or the owners manual, is
that the si tire pressures are lower than the dx's skinnier tires. so,
having now applied the correct pressures i am pleased to report that i
can happily drive a certain freeway on-ramp much faster than before
because i'm not skipping and bumping as much on it's rutted broken
hairpin surface! truly, correct pressures are a good thing.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

I'm not finding any safety issues per se by inflating to
near that which is printed on the side of the tire. The only
caution is that overinflation may lead to greater wear down
the middle of the tire than on the edges, so tires should be
inspected more often. If wear down the middle is detected,
reduce the pressure.

"Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote
> > Have you checked around to see if such a high pressure
(to
> > me) is safe?
> >
> > Maybe it is, but I'd at least google.
> >
> > Off the top of my head, I would expect the tires to heat
up
> > while driving, and so raise the pressure, perhaps
> > dangerously close to the design limit.
> >
> > "Morgan Groves" <m_groves@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> I just upped my tire pressure all around from 28 psi to
> > 40psi, and saw an
> >> IMMEDIATE improvement of 5.5 mpg in town driving--from
42
> > to 46.5 mpg. I
> >> expect to see an even greater improvement at 60 mpg.
Max
> > pressure for OEM
> >> tires is 55 psi.
> >>
> >> Low air pressure could account for your poor gas
mileage.
> >
> As I said in my previous post, the maximum air pressure
shown on the tire is
> 55 psi. I'd feel completely safe going to 45 psi. So
far, I can't feel any
> bad effects in the ride--just a tad stiffer. I'd say it
actually rides very
> well.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.01.04.56.18.887077@hightech.misfi t...
> Morgan Groves wrote:
>
>> As I said in my previous post, the maximum air pressure shown on the tire
>> is
>> 55 psi. I'd feel completely safe going to 45 psi. So far, I can't feel
>> any
>> bad effects in the ride--just a tad stiffer. I'd say it actually rides
>> very
>> well.
>
> What does it say on the sticker inside the driver's door jamb?
>
> On my '93 Accord, the recommended pressure specified by Honda on the
> sticker is 29psi, and my current all season tires specify a maximum
> pressure of 44psi. I usually put 30-32psi in them. But one time I tried
> it at about 35psi, and it felt too jittery for my liking. I didn't keep
> it like that long enough to see how it affected my gas mileage.

This has been quite an issue in the Toyota Prius group in Yahoo. The tires
(at least on the first generation) are max inflation of 50 psi but Toyota
recommends pressures of 33 psi front and rear. At those pressures the tires
show serious underinflation wear. The gurus have pretty much settled on 42
front, 40 rear. The tires still show signs of underinflation wear, but it
isn't as bad.

Dunno about the Civic hybrid, but the Prius is an unusually heavy car for
the tire size, which means it has to have XL (IIRC) load range tires. Those
load ratings are only valid at maximum inflation; there is some arcane
derating system as the tire pressures decrease.

Mike

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

Michael Pardee wrote:

> This has been quite an issue in the Toyota Prius group in Yahoo. The tires
> (at least on the first generation) are max inflation of 50 psi but Toyota
> recommends pressures of 33 psi front and rear. At those pressures the tires
> show serious underinflation wear. The gurus have pretty much settled on 42
> front, 40 rear. The tires still show signs of underinflation wear, but it
> isn't as bad.
>
> Dunno about the Civic hybrid, but the Prius is an unusually heavy car for
> the tire size, which means it has to have XL (IIRC) load range tires. Those
> load ratings are only valid at maximum inflation; there is some arcane
> derating system as the tire pressures decrease.
>
> Mike
>
>

The Prius uses every trick in the book to increase fuel economy ratings,
including many which have nothing to do with hybrid technology. Few
people realize that narrow, tall tires give better fuel economy than
wide, squat tires. The effect isn't huge, but it is there.

John

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Cpjkf.4461$wF.607@trnddc08...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> This has been quite an issue in the Toyota Prius group in Yahoo. The
>> tires (at least on the first generation) are max inflation of 50 psi but
>> Toyota recommends pressures of 33 psi front and rear. At those pressures
>> the tires show serious underinflation wear. The gurus have pretty much
>> settled on 42 front, 40 rear. The tires still show signs of
>> underinflation wear, but it isn't as bad.
>>
>> Dunno about the Civic hybrid, but the Prius is an unusually heavy car for
>> the tire size, which means it has to have XL (IIRC) load range tires.
>> Those load ratings are only valid at maximum inflation; there is some
>> arcane derating system as the tire pressures decrease.
>>
>> Mike
>
> The Prius uses every trick in the book to increase fuel economy ratings,
> including many which have nothing to do with hybrid technology. Few
> people realize that narrow, tall tires give better fuel economy than wide,
> squat tires. The effect isn't huge, but it is there.
>
> John
Tire technology has developed amazingly in recent years. The rolling
resistance of today's tires is way less than it was. I don't know, but I
suspect Honda has done enough homework to have tires with low rolling
resistance as OEM on its cars. I think it's more than the larger contact
patch that affects mileage when tires are under-inflated--a low tire has
MUCH more rolling resistance than a correctly or reasonably over inflated
tire.

At 40-45 psi, the LAST thing I'd worry about is heat buildup: most of the
heat buildup arises from internal resistance in the tire. IIRC, that's
called hysteresis loss

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Cpjkf.4461$wF.607@trnddc08...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> This has been quite an issue in the Toyota Prius group in Yahoo. The
>> tires (at least on the first generation) are max inflation of 50 psi but
>> Toyota recommends pressures of 33 psi front and rear. At those pressures
>> the tires show serious underinflation wear. The gurus have pretty much
>> settled on 42 front, 40 rear. The tires still show signs of
>> underinflation wear, but it isn't as bad.
>>
>> Dunno about the Civic hybrid, but the Prius is an unusually heavy car for
>> the tire size, which means it has to have XL (IIRC) load range tires.
>> Those load ratings are only valid at maximum inflation; there is some
>> arcane derating system as the tire pressures decrease.
>>
>> Mike
>
> The Prius uses every trick in the book to increase fuel economy ratings,
> including many which have nothing to do with hybrid technology. Few
> people realize that narrow, tall tires give better fuel economy than wide,
> squat tires. The effect isn't huge, but it is there.
>
> John
>

Oddly, the OEM Low Rolling Resistance tires operated at the recommended
pressure give almost 5% poorer fuel economy than more standard tires at
proper inflation. The most popular aftermarket tires for the current
generation Prius are the Michelin Hydroedge, with maximum rated inflation (I
forget the numbers) in the front and 2 psi less in the rear.

The "bleeding edge" in fuel economy is a marketing issue, not a design
issue. The Prius was originally designed to be a 21st century car from the
ground up, and the revolutionary passenger capsule and suspension designs
were the first considerations. The original design outline (in November
1993) only called for 50% better fuel economy than the equivalent Corolla
and there was no thought to use a hybrid power train. It was only when the
fuel economy spec was increased another 50% a year later that the team
turned to what was then very experimental hybrid technology. See
http://www.vfaq.net/docs/Prius_that_shook_world.pdf (note: more than 1 MB
file size).

Mike

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

In article <sOKdnZfOM_5fsg7eRVn-pA@sedona.net>,
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

> Oddly, the OEM Low Rolling Resistance tires operated at the recommended
> pressure give almost 5% poorer fuel economy than more standard tires at
> proper inflation.

You don't make any sense here.

The proper inflation for ANY tire is what's recommended by the
manufacturer. There is no different inflation value for a replacement
tire than there is for the tires that came on the car.

You must be thinking that the "max inflation pressure" listed on the
side of the tire is some kind of "proper" inflation amount. It's not.

Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-79B1AB.13181804122005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
> In article <sOKdnZfOM_5fsg7eRVn-pA@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> Oddly, the OEM Low Rolling Resistance tires operated at the recommended
>> pressure give almost 5% poorer fuel economy than more standard tires at
>> proper inflation.
>
> You don't make any sense here.
>
> The proper inflation for ANY tire is what's recommended by the
> manufacturer. There is no different inflation value for a replacement
> tire than there is for the tires that came on the car.
>
> You must be thinking that the "max inflation pressure" listed on the
> side of the tire is some kind of "proper" inflation amount. It's not.
>
No - the proper inflation is both application dependent and tire dependent.
The load rating on the tire is only applicable at the maximum rated
pressure, regardless of the vehicle. Car manufacturers state an inflation
with the OEM tires that produces the ride they want with adequate inflation
for safety with the tires they provide, but the tire manufacturers are not
bound to the car manufacturer's recommendations when they offer a tire for
that car. The good news is that people usually want wider tires, which
increase the margin of safety between the car manufacturer's recommendations
and the minimum inflation.

My partner worked at a Discount Tire when he was young and absolutely rails
about the folly of putting tire pressures in the owner's manual. Tire
retailers have charts that tell them the proper pressure for the tire in a
given operating load range, and he got no end of grief from people who said
that didn't match the owner's manual... as though the manual had any
foreknowledge of the tires that were to be used.

The real test of inflation (as long as it is at least the required inflation
for the load and no more than the max inflation) is tread wear. I don't
bother with the tape test for inflation wear because I'm lazy that way - I
choose an inflation and wait until they wear out, then look at the wear
pattern. I've never seen a tire show overinflation wear.

Mike