Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
04-05-2008, 12:42 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news
an.2008.04.05.14.14.35.582340@moria.lan...> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>
> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
Why is he clueless?
--
Bearman
Occasionally proud but always happy to be an American.
04-05-2008, 07:23 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
they do not employ American citizens?
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
they do not employ American citizens?
04-05-2008, 07:24 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
bearman wrote:
> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> newsan.2008.04.05.14.14.35.582340@moria.lan...
>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>>
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>>
>
>
> Why is he clueless?
Probably because I'm right.
> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> news
an.2008.04.05.14.14.35.582340@moria.lan...>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>>
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>>
>
>
> Why is he clueless?
Probably because I'm right.
04-05-2008, 07:42 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:F9JJj.273$h75.13@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.. .
> Dan C wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy
>>>>> with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda
>>>>> Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the
>>>>> dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look
>>>>> good.
>>
>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>
>>> A German car?
>>
>> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>>
>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>>
>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>
>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and employ
> US citizens and pay US taxes.
Believe the 3 series is assembled in Pretoria, South Africa and shipped to
the States. The engines and transmissions are made in Germany.
>
>
04-05-2008, 09:06 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
> they do not employ American citizens?
No.
What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
at all.
<shrug>
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
> they do not employ American citizens?
No.
What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
at all.
<shrug>
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
04-05-2008, 09:08 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:42:14 -0600, bearman wrote:
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
> Why is he clueless?
Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
of those statements is true.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
> Why is he clueless?
Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
of those statements is true.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
04-05-2008, 09:44 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
Dan C wrote:
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
> of those statements is true.
>
But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
didn't say (write) it...
He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
money from their sales stays here in the US".
FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
> of those statements is true.
>
But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
didn't say (write) it...
He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
money from their sales stays here in the US".
FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.
04-06-2008, 12:31 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
On 4/5/2008 8:44 PM M.M. spake these words of knowledge:
> Dan C wrote:
>>
>> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
>> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
>> of those statements is true.
>>
>
> But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
> didn't say (write) it...
>
> He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
> US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
> does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
> money from their sales stays here in the US".
>
> FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.
In fact, Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai all have factories in Alabama.
RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"If you can get people to ask the wrong questions, they'll never find
the right answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
> Dan C wrote:
>>
>> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
>> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
>> of those statements is true.
>>
>
> But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
> didn't say (write) it...
>
> He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
> US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
> does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
> money from their sales stays here in the US".
>
> FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.
In fact, Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai all have factories in Alabama.
RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"If you can get people to ask the wrong questions, they'll never find
the right answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
04-06-2008, 12:35 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:06:54 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
>> they do not employ American citizens?
>
>No.
>
>What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
>here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
>but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
>at all.
>
><shrug>
So do you think there is any foreigner anywhere who owns a share and
collects a dividend from GM or Ford? If so, not all of the money
stays here in the US.
If you want more of the money to stay in the US, buy HMC and TM.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/chart/compare/*http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=HMC&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=gm>
<shrug>
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
>> they do not employ American citizens?
>
>No.
>
>What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
>here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
>but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
>at all.
>
><shrug>
So do you think there is any foreigner anywhere who owns a share and
collects a dividend from GM or Ford? If so, not all of the money
stays here in the US.
If you want more of the money to stay in the US, buy HMC and TM.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/chart/compare/*http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=HMC&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=gm>
<shrug>
04-06-2008, 08:26 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US
>> borders and they do not employ American citizens?
>
> No.
>
> What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money
> stays here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some*
> of it does, but not all. In fact that was never the point of the
> original discussion at all.
>
> <shrug>
This statement made it part of the discussion:
"Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?"
The fact remains that these companies employ American workers and pay
American taxes. While the actual net profit may go to foreign countries,
the this is less than the actual cost of manufacturing the vehicle, so
"some" of the money is inaccurate, as in reality, most of the money stays
here.
<double shrug>
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US
>> borders and they do not employ American citizens?
>
> No.
>
> What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money
> stays here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some*
> of it does, but not all. In fact that was never the point of the
> original discussion at all.
>
> <shrug>
This statement made it part of the discussion:
"Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?"
The fact remains that these companies employ American workers and pay
American taxes. While the actual net profit may go to foreign countries,
the this is less than the actual cost of manufacturing the vehicle, so
"some" of the money is inaccurate, as in reality, most of the money stays
here.
<double shrug>
04-06-2008, 08:33 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
tww1491 wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:F9JJj.273$h75.13@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.. .
>> Dan C wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been
>>>>>> happy with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and
>>>>>> the Honda Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet
>>>>>> because the dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The
>>>>>> reviews look good.
>>>
>>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>>
>>>> A German car?
>>>
>>> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>>>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>>>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Believe the 3 series is assembled in Pretoria, South Africa and
> shipped to the States. The engines and transmissions are made in
> Germany.
I'm sure that specific models may be made in specific factories, as this
would be more cost effective for inventory and assembly.
Toyota and GM have a joint venture in Fremont, CA (NUMMI), where they
manufacture the Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Corolla and Tacoma (all use the same
frame). Pretty interesting to see all three of these go down the same
assembly line together......
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:F9JJj.273$h75.13@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.. .
>> Dan C wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been
>>>>>> happy with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and
>>>>>> the Honda Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet
>>>>>> because the dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The
>>>>>> reviews look good.
>>>
>>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>>
>>>> A German car?
>>>
>>> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>>>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>>>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Believe the 3 series is assembled in Pretoria, South Africa and
> shipped to the States. The engines and transmissions are made in
> Germany.
I'm sure that specific models may be made in specific factories, as this
would be more cost effective for inventory and assembly.
Toyota and GM have a joint venture in Fremont, CA (NUMMI), where they
manufacture the Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Corolla and Tacoma (all use the same
frame). Pretty interesting to see all three of these go down the same
assembly line together......
04-06-2008, 08:34 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:42:14 -0600, bearman wrote:
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Why is he clueless?
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here
> in the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US.
> Neither of those statements is true.
I never stated that all of the money stays here, that is an assumption on
your part.
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:42:14 -0600, bearman wrote:
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Why is he clueless?
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here
> in the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US.
> Neither of those statements is true.
I never stated that all of the money stays here, that is an assumption on
your part.
04-06-2008, 04:29 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
On Mar 29, 6:27 pm, ray <spamm...@do.not.reply.com> wrote:
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> My initial conclusion is they all look good. The Toyota / Lexus are
> somewhat quieter and smoother, the Honda probably more reliable.
>
> I hear that Toyota quality and reliability is slipping and the 6 speed
> transmission used in all the cars that I am considering has problems.
> How serious are they? The Lexus seems nice but I am being told that
> it must be taken to the Lexus dealer for warranty repairs, a 4 hour
> drive round trip. Is this true, or can the local Toyota dealer handle
> it?
>
> I considered the Acura TL, but it does not come with cloth seats. The
> Honda dealer was pushing the Nissan Altima. I don't think they are as
> reliable as the Toyota. I recently rented Nissan Sentra for 2 months
> in Hawaii. In 2 months due to failures we drove 3 different ones and
> were not impressed. Any other suggestions for a nicer car that comes
> with cloth seats?
We have both an Avalon and an Accord in our family. I am surprised at
how much more I like the Accord. It has more room. The ride and
"driveability" are much better. And it is less expensive. If you
haven't yet, drive your Avalon to the Honda dealer and then test drive
an Accord. I think you will like Accord.
Good luck!
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> My initial conclusion is they all look good. The Toyota / Lexus are
> somewhat quieter and smoother, the Honda probably more reliable.
>
> I hear that Toyota quality and reliability is slipping and the 6 speed
> transmission used in all the cars that I am considering has problems.
> How serious are they? The Lexus seems nice but I am being told that
> it must be taken to the Lexus dealer for warranty repairs, a 4 hour
> drive round trip. Is this true, or can the local Toyota dealer handle
> it?
>
> I considered the Acura TL, but it does not come with cloth seats. The
> Honda dealer was pushing the Nissan Altima. I don't think they are as
> reliable as the Toyota. I recently rented Nissan Sentra for 2 months
> in Hawaii. In 2 months due to failures we drove 3 different ones and
> were not impressed. Any other suggestions for a nicer car that comes
> with cloth seats?
We have both an Avalon and an Accord in our family. I am surprised at
how much more I like the Accord. It has more room. The ride and
"driveability" are much better. And it is less expensive. If you
haven't yet, drive your Avalon to the Honda dealer and then test drive
an Accord. I think you will like Accord.
Good luck!
04-15-2008, 10:09 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
ray wrote:
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
The only thing I really don't like about our Accord and TSX is that both
have high levels of road noise on certain road surfaces. The
Toyota/Lexus products are much better in this regard.
A recent road trip included several hours at the end of a long day on
some highways in West Texas which have very coarse pavement. The noise
was maddening.
So depending on your driving style this might be an issue.
It never bothers me on trips of under two hours, but when you get into a
6-12 hour marathon day on the road like I do several times a year then
road noise is very tiring.
John
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
The only thing I really don't like about our Accord and TSX is that both
have high levels of road noise on certain road surfaces. The
Toyota/Lexus products are much better in this regard.
A recent road trip included several hours at the end of a long day on
some highways in West Texas which have very coarse pavement. The noise
was maddening.
So depending on your driving style this might be an issue.
It never bothers me on trips of under two hours, but when you get into a
6-12 hour marathon day on the road like I do several times a year then
road noise is very tiring.
John
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