Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

In article <MPG.25bee9e0fc187bd998a2ba@208.90.168.18>,
Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote:

> A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/
>
> which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours
> with 5-speeds.

A four cylinder Honda with manual transmission is an absolute jewel of a
drivetrain. Bulletproof, smooth to the end, cheap to run.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

Steven L. wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic.
> I still own it.
> I've got 88,000 miles on it.
> And it's still running great.
>
> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic
> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for
> good?
>
>
> --
> --
> Steven L.
> sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
> Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address.
>
>


I bought a 1986 Civic Si new, and sold it 23 years and 150k miles
later with a few issues (rainwater leak and resultant frame rust, dead
A/C), but a sound drivetrain. That car was amazingly fast for 91HP.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

Steven L. wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic.
> I still own it.
> I've got 88,000 miles on it.
> And it's still running great.
>
> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic
> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for
> good?

If you change the oil every 5000~8000+ miles (use a decent filter), the
transmission fluid once a year, and the timing belt per schedule, the
engine will never 'die.'

At 15 years, your chassis bushings just may be starting to deteriorate.
Replacing them is a bit of a PITA. Some are user replaceable, but
you'll likely need a shop's assistance to press out the others.

Check suspension ball joints for torn dust boots and possible wear.
(Neglected ball joints are the ONE thing that will literally cause the
wheels to fall off!)

Check the steering tie rod bellows - they will be wanting to tear before
too long. And allowing dirt, etc. into the mechanism will cause mayhem.
Replacing them is an easy DIY job.

Check all the small water hoses that run around the intake area and
heater core. They tend to be neglected and are prone to unanticipated
blow outs.

As mentioned, drive axles will eventually get tired, but with only 88K,
you probably have another 5~10 years to find replacements! DO inspect
the boots every so often. I think Tegger's site has a good tutorial -
basically, you crank the steering wheel, jack one wheel up, and spin the
wheel. (With the car in neutral, be sure you've blocked the rear
wheels, etc!) Look for nascent cracks lurking deep in the boot's folds.
If caught early - before the grease is lost and dirt enters, damage
can be avoided and new boots installed. If the axles are worn, Honda
sells new or factory-refurb units. 'Raxles' are one of the few
aftermarket brands I'd recommend. They cost more but are worth it.

AC O-rings are getting old and will eventually leak. Don't be surprised
if the system stops working before too long. Big $ and/or major
headache to replace them.

Motor mounts are likely OK, but may need to be replaced sometime this
decade.

Lube the window track with silicone spray every year or so to reduce
load/wear/tear on the power actuator.

Other than that, put gas in and go!

Post again when you reach 200K. :)

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in
news:MPG.25bee9e0fc187bd998a2ba@208.90.168.18:

> In article <elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>,
> elmop@nastydesigns.com says...
>> In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>,
>> Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote:
>>
>> > To the OP, Honda engines are a
>> > remarkable piece of work.
>>
>> correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work.
>> Jewels, actually.
>>
>> The sixes...eh.
>
> A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/
>
> which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord
> fours with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a
> living to accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years.




I can guess as to the TYPE of job he might have had: It would have involved
very long periods of steady-state highway driving, possibly all day long.
The fact of his original clutch is a giveaway as to the driving
environment.

There would have been no use of starter, shifter or clutch for very long
mileage intervals. The throttle would have spent most of its time only
slightly open, resulting in very light piston-ring loading. The engine
would have spent virtually no time in a "cold startup" condition.

And this driving was done in a place that did not have Northeastern-type
winters, which are certain death to all cars.

There are numerous cases of vehicles of just about all makes completing
extreme distances under such conditions.




>
> Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is?
>


Good question! I know the Toyota museum in CA has a 999,999 mile Toyota.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9LWdnUP7o-1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic.
> I still own it.
> I've got 88,000 miles on it.
> And it's still running great.
>
> How long can one of these puppies last, before something
> catastrophic happens, like the engine dies for good or the
> suspension collapses for good?

This is a very difficult question to answer. Where you are, how you
drive, how you maintain the car, and your tolerance for deterioration
all figure into how long you are willing to keep the car.

My sister recently traded her 1998 Civic for a new car (the Civic was
11 years old with around 160k miles). The car ran OK, but had lots of
cosmetic issues (paint faded, paint falling off the bumpers, faded
crumbling interior plastic, etc.). It had a few mechanical problems
(moderate oil consumption, noisy exhaust, annoying vibrations, etc.).
To her the car was tolerable but she was ready for something "nicer"
and less prone to mechanical problems (i.e., a new Toyota RAV4). I
wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.
It sold in a day. And the buyer seemed delighted. I suppose it is out
there somewhere chugging along with a driver who is just happy it
still moves (and the AC still works).

Back to your original question - given a mild climate, non-abusive
driving, reasonable maintenace, and a moderate tolerance for repair
costs, cosmetic appearance, and discomfort, I would asusme a Civice
could last 25 years or more - probably far longer than you will be
satisfied with it. 200,000 miles with only moderate repairs should not
be a problem. If you maintain your current driving pattern, I'd say
you could still be driving the Civic in 2020 barring government
intervention.

Ed

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:

> I
> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.

And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.

Imagine that.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> I
>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my
>> mind
>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a
>> co-worker
>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when
>> we
>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy
>> it.
>
> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.

Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but
finally a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't
refuse. The guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a
terrific vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new,
needed fewer repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except
for the difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the
superior vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far
better condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a
farm truck). Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone
looking for a Civic would want an F150 or vis-a-versa.

Ed

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> I
>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.
>
> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.
>
> Imagine that.

Don't be so sure. Decent pickups sell pretty well. I have a 93 Ranger
that people knock on the door asking if I want to sell, just seeing it
parked in the driveway.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:46:49 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>If you drive it regularly, somewhere around 120K miles you'll find that
>a bunch of things come up all at once to make you wonder if it's time to
>get rid of it.
>
>But you spend the $2000 or so to get them all straightened out, and go
>for another 120K miles.

I got to that point on my old 1987 Accord, started nibbling away at
the stuff, decided the old girl was underpowered for the modern world
and traded it in on the new model.

Might get to that point on fewer miles with more years, all the rubber
goods in the suspension, hoses and seals tend to age by time as well
as miles.

Actually, the dark grey paint was still doing fine!

J.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> I
>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.
>
> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.
>
> Imagine that.

Probably because it wasn't up for sale...

Imagine that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DaveD

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hj4ov7$6ca$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I
>>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
>>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
>>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
>>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
>>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
>>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.
>>
>> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.
>
> Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but finally
> a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The
> guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a terrific
> vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new, needed fewer
> repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except for the
> difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the superior
> vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far better
> condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a farm truck).
> Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone looking for a Civic
> would want an F150 or vis-a-versa.
>
> Ed

Ed,
There are several in this group, as you well know, who can't get their
little minds around the fact that there exist vehicles that are just as good
as a Honda and they never pass up a chance to make snide, mundane comments
just to see themselves in print. Sigh!!!! I have an 82 F250 with a 300 I6
that has well over 200k miles (not kilometers) and has had routine upkeep
maintenance done to it and it still runs great. My 86 Honda Civic also has
over 200k miles with only the routine upkeep maintenance and runs great.
Does that give anyone a clue???? Upkeep maintenance is the key here... That
is the point of commonality. You do the maintenance and the vehicle lasts,
and lasts, and lasts.

DaveD
>
>

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

On 01/19/2010 11:51 PM, Dave D wrote:
> "C. E. White"<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:hj4ov7$6ca$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> In article<hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "C. E. White"<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind
>>>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with
>>>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker
>>>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I
>>>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we
>>>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it.
>>>
>>> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150.
>>
>> Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but finally
>> a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The
>> guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a terrific
>> vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new, needed fewer
>> repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except for the
>> difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the superior
>> vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far better
>> condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a farm truck).
>> Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone looking for a Civic
>> would want an F150 or vis-a-versa.
>>
>> Ed
>
> Ed,
> There are several in this group, as you well know, who can't get their
> little minds around the fact that there exist vehicles that are just as good
> as a Honda and they never pass up a chance to make snide, mundane comments
> just to see themselves in print. Sigh!!!! I have an 82 F250 with a 300 I6
> that has well over 200k miles (not kilometers) and has had routine upkeep
> maintenance done to it and it still runs great. My 86 Honda Civic also has
> over 200k miles with only the routine upkeep maintenance and runs great.
> Does that give anyone a clue???? Upkeep maintenance is the key here... That
> is the point of commonality. You do the maintenance and the vehicle lasts,
> and lasts, and lasts.
>
> DaveD

actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about as
cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because it's
been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or well
designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near as good
as the forgings in a honda.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...

> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about
> as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because
> it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or
> well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near
> as good as the forgings in a honda.

When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine put
well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and
sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing good
engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are
decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no practical
value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to
this.

My Sister has owned two Hondas. She was happy with both of them. Both
suffered cosmetically (rust, fading paint, crummy plastic) but neither
quit running or required excessive repairs while she owned them. She
is very easy on cars (and I mean very easy) from an operational
standpoint. Over the same time periods she owned Hondas, other members
of my family owned Fords. In general the Fords were treated much
rougher, particualrly the trucks (we have a farm). The Fords didn't
need any more repairs than the Hondas, held up much bettter
cosmetically and cost less. Of course they didn't have near the
credibility with "cool" people that the Hondas have, but no one in my
family really cares what "cool" people like. If you like a lot of buzz
words, and don't mind paying extra so you can throw them out to
impress your friends, then I suppose Honda's are a great choice. But I
don't believe you are getting a better vehicle just becasue the ad
copy sounds cool. If a Honda suits you needs, by all means buy one.
They are decent cars and generally get good gas mielage. But you are
fooling yourself if you think Hondas are made of especially good
materials - I've seen the rust holes, oil leaks, faded paint, and
crumbling plastic that says it ain't so.

Ed

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

"Dick G" <biteme@dick.com> wrote in message
news:8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
> wrote:
>
> >"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in news:9LWdnUP7o-
> >1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
> >
> >> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic.
> >> I still own it.
> >> I've got 88,000 miles on it.
> >> And it's still running great.
> >>
> >> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic
> >> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for
> >> good?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >Dump it quick. It won't last.
> >
> >My '91 Integra, which is Civic-based, is only 19 years old and has a paltry
> >336,000 miles on it.
> >
> >I'm so disappointed that I've decided never to buy another brand-new '91
> >Integra ever again.
> Good plan. We had a '92 Civic and ran it up to 350,000. Sold it in
> 2000 and car is still on the road. To the OP, Honda engines are a
> remarkable piece of work. Regular oil changes, timing belt and a few
> other steps it will last much longer than anticipated. Drop us a line
> when you hit 200k

That's a problem.

See, with the cars I owned in the past,
I always "ran the car into the ground"--kept driving it till it fell
apart, and then bought a new one.

But these Honda Civics just refuse to fall apart at the right time
(barring a major accident or something).



--
--
Steven L.
sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address.

Re: How long can a Civic last?
 

On 01/20/2010 07:31 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about
>> as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because
>> it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or
>> well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near
>> as good as the forgings in a honda.
>
> When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine put
> well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and
> sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing good
> engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are
> decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no practical
> value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to
> this.

the difference is this - that frod taxi engine is utterly worn out at
200k. pretty crappy for a honking great v8 that's running at maybe 10%
of rated output on average and with very little cold start cycling. for
a honda engine, provided it's not maintained by a retard, 200k is
nowhere near end of life. when i had the head off the burned valve
motor a few weeks ago, there was zero ring lip on the cylinder wall
after 212k miles. i've never seen that on a frod. or any other
domestic come to that.

now, as to the difference between cast, sintered and forged, these are
not "buzzwords". for fatigue, i.e. if you want maximum performance from
the lightest weight, there is nothing to beat a forging. it is denser,
more homogeneous, and has the added benefit of aligning grain structure
with the loading axes.

castings and sinterings cannot do that. because they less dense, they
are less fatigue resistant weight for weight, and bearing surfaces
cannot be as smooth or hard.

bottom line, they work, and if not run hard, they can last a fair time,
but under heavy load or for longest durability, castings cannot match
forgings.

one more thing: in order to keep loading to a level where fatigue is not
an issue on castings, you have to make everything bigger. bigger is
heavier. heavier means lower fuel efficiency. again, forgings are the
way to go.


>
> My Sister has owned two Hondas. She was happy with both of them. Both
> suffered cosmetically (rust, fading paint, crummy plastic) but neither
> quit running or required excessive repairs while she owned them. She
> is very easy on cars (and I mean very easy) from an operational
> standpoint. Over the same time periods she owned Hondas, other members
> of my family owned Fords. In general the Fords were treated much
> rougher, particualrly the trucks (we have a farm). The Fords didn't
> need any more repairs than the Hondas, held up much bettter
> cosmetically and cost less. Of course they didn't have near the
> credibility with "cool" people that the Hondas have, but no one in my
> family really cares what "cool" people like. If you like a lot of buzz
> words, and don't mind paying extra so you can throw them out to
> impress your friends, then I suppose Honda's are a great choice. But I
> don't believe you are getting a better vehicle just becasue the ad
> copy sounds cool. If a Honda suits you needs, by all means buy one.
> They are decent cars and generally get good gas mielage. But you are
> fooling yourself if you think Hondas are made of especially good
> materials - I've seen the rust holes, oil leaks, faded paint, and
> crumbling plastic that says it ain't so.

rust is chemical, not mechanical. sure, i don't like honda rust either,
but for the mechanicals, the hondas are better than a frod any way you
slice it. you can run a honda engine at 50% of rated output for
hundreds of thousands of miles. if you ran a frod at 50%, the thing
would be dead in fraction of the time. materials quality on frods are
abysmal. frod design sucks too - they are utterly relentless in cutting
every corner possible. example: they save about 5 cents per vehicle by
using taper spark plug seats instead of gasketed seats. utterly
ridiculous and frighteningly unreliable.