News

Mr Ed wrote:
> "News" <News@Groups.com> wrote in message
> news:a5mdnVPrg6nbXsnanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>
>>Retired VIP wrote:
>>
>>>Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>>>slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>>>generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>>>is shut off.
>>
>>
>>Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
>>customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!
>>
>>How do you suppose they do that?
>
>
> My entrance has a box controlled by "carrier current" transmissions. In the
> summer when A/C's are all running, all over, on an extremely hot day, my A/C
> will shut down for short periods.


And your lights dim, too?

All your UPS brownout trigger?

L Alpert

News wrote:
> L Alpert wrote:
>> richard schumacher wrote:
>>
>>> In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>>> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>>
>>>> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>>
>>> You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The
>> deregulation smells of collusion.
>>
>>
>
>
> Now THERE'S a surprise.... They spend more money telemarketing than
> they do hedging/risk managing and driving down supply chain costs.

Why pass on any savings to the end consumer? Get what the market will bear.

L Alpert

News wrote:
> Retired VIP wrote:
>>
>> Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>> slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>> generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>> is shut off.
>
>
> Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
> customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!
>
> How do you suppose they do that?

Addressable by IP address electrons?

Gordon McGrew

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:48:49 GMT, Retired VIP
<jackj.extradots.180@windstream.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:35:43 GMT, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>richard schumacher wrote:
>>> In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>>> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>>
>>>> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>>
>>> You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>>
>>Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The deregulation
>>smells of collusion.
>>
>
>It isn't collusion, it's fraud. The, so called, alternate electric
>providers don't provide anything except an alternate address to mail
>your check to. The electricity they sell you is purchased from the
>old provider and brought to your house by the old provider. How can
>it be much cheaper than the electricity the old company sells to you?
>
>Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>is shut off.
>
>You better look into the gift horse's mouth if you know what's good
>for you.
>
>Jack

Far be it for me to defend the electric companies, but this
interruptible power issue is clearly bullshit. The only way for them
to cut off your power without cutting off your neighbor (who may be
their customer) is to come to your house and do it. I can't see the
power company coming out in trucks during a shortage to disconnect
every home on their non-customer list.

Scott in Florida

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:45:23 -0600, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:48:49 GMT, Retired VIP
><jackj.extradots.180@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:35:43 GMT, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>richard schumacher wrote:
>>>> In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>>>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>>>> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>>>
>>>> You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>>>
>>>Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The deregulation
>>>smells of collusion.
>>>
>>
>>It isn't collusion, it's fraud. The, so called, alternate electric
>>providers don't provide anything except an alternate address to mail
>>your check to. The electricity they sell you is purchased from the
>>old provider and brought to your house by the old provider. How can
>>it be much cheaper than the electricity the old company sells to you?
>>
>>Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>>slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>>generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>>is shut off.
>>
>>You better look into the gift horse's mouth if you know what's good
>>for you.
>>
>>Jack
>
>Far be it for me to defend the electric companies, but this
>interruptible power issue is clearly bullshit. The only way for them
>to cut off your power without cutting off your neighbor (who may be
>their customer) is to come to your house and do it. I can't see the
>power company coming out in trucks during a shortage to disconnect
>every home on their non-customer list.

You are wrong.

I have had interruptible power in my home here since 1979 when we moved in.

The electric company put two systems in the house.

1. Interrupts the Air Conditioner.

2. The Hot Water Heater

3. The Electric Heat.

4. The pool pump motor.

When they need to turn off one of my systems they send a code out and the
power to that system is interrupted for the contracted time.

The system has been working since 1979.

Florida Power and Light has paid me a good penny over the years....LOL


--
Scott in Florida

Gordon McGrew

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:59:25 -0800 (PST), johngdole@hotmail.com wrote:

>I guess the bad battery packs of Thiettranh of Concord CA (9/21/04) or
>Ray Molton's Priuses don't count. I'd just wait for the GM-BMW-
>Mercedes two-mode hybrid to come off the production line. IMO it's a
>superior system that's been tested in city buses since 2003.
>
>
>http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...s_battery.html
>
>"Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas.
>Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five years and 113,000 miles.
>And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer estimated the
>replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for
>parts."
>
>Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue."
>He called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000
>to $9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another
>2001 Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing,
>after all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these
>battery issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001
>Priuses in the same shop at the same time, if they have had no
>problems with the batteries?"
>
>To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften
>the damage to his pocketbook--only to discover that the salvage
>battery's #13 cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem
>on his Prius."

But you didn't finish the story. Ray ended up having the corroded
cell cleaned up and reinstalled and the car ran like new again. If
Ray had found a knowledgeable and honest service facility to start
with, the problem would have been fixed in a few hours for maybe a
couple hundred dollars.

<http://www.hybridcars.com/technology-stories/battery-replacement-costs.html>

-- quote --

I shared Ray's story with my friend, Craig Van Batenburg, a master
hybrid technician who conducts workshops with independent service
shops around the country. "This is exactly why I am training indy
techs to work on these cars," Craig said. "It is not a problem with
the nickel metal hydride cells, but a corroded connection. This is
common with any electrical connector on any part of any car. The
dealerships don’t fix the connections. They replace the entire hybrid
battery."

So Ray’s ordeal wasn’t caused by a failure of new hybrid battery
technology - those batteries will last the life of the vehicle and
will help save hundreds of gallons of gasoline for their owners. And
the next generation of lithium ion batteries may be one of the keys to
weaning America off its dependence on oil. The root of Ray's problems
stemmed from an ordinary corroded connection, the failure of a huge
corporation to respond to one of their customers, and the willingness
of a local car dealership to profit handsomely from a problem rather
than fix it at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately, these stories are
just as hidden in the media as all of those so-called "hidden costs"
of owning a hybrid.

-- end quote --




>
>
>
>On Nov 26, 9:53 pm, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
>> the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year warranty.
>> Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due to wear and
>> tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over 200,000 miles.

News

L Alpert wrote:
> News wrote:
>
>>L Alpert wrote:
>>
>>>richard schumacher wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>>>>"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>>>>where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>>>
>>>>>We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>>>
>>>>You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The
>>>deregulation smells of collusion.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Now THERE'S a surprise.... They spend more money telemarketing than
>>they do hedging/risk managing and driving down supply chain costs.
>
>
> Why pass on any savings to the end consumer? Get what the market will bear.
>
>


Which makes the concept and implementation a fraud on the public.

No wonder it gets pushed so heavily.

News

L Alpert wrote:

> News wrote:
>
>>Retired VIP wrote:
>>
>>>Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>>>slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>>>generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>>>is shut off.
>>
>>
>>Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
>>customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!
>>
>>How do you suppose they do that?
>
>
> Addressable by IP address electrons?
>
>

With a network interface on your aerial drop? No.

With multiple network interfaces in your home? Possibly, if digital
signals pass the various dropping transformers, or with a split wiring
system in your home. Not that I've heard of such.

EdV

There's no
>
> But you didn't finish the story. Ray ended up having the corroded
> cell cleaned up and reinstalled and the car ran like new again. If
> Ray had found a knowledgeable and honest service facility to start
> with, the problem would have been fixed in a few hours for maybe a
> couple hundred dollars.
>
> <http://www.hybridcars.com/technology-stories/battery-replacement-cost...>
>
> -- quote --
>
> I shared Ray's story with my friend, Craig Van Batenburg, a master
> hybrid technician who conducts workshops with independent service
> shops around the country. "This is exactly why I am training indy
> techs to work on these cars," Craig said. "It is not a problem with
> the nickel metal hydride cells, but a corroded connection. This is
> common with any electrical connector on any part of any car. The
> dealerships don't fix the connections. They replace the entire hybrid
> battery."
>
> So Ray's ordeal wasn't caused by a failure of new hybrid battery
> technology - those batteries will last the life of the vehicle and
> will help save hundreds of gallons of gasoline for their owners. And
> the next generation of lithium ion batteries may be one of the keys to
> weaning America off its dependence on oil. The root of Ray's problems
> stemmed from an ordinary corroded connection, the failure of a huge
> corporation to respond to one of their customers, and the willingness
> of a local car dealership to profit handsomely from a problem rather
> than fix it at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately, these stories are
> just as hidden in the media as all of those so-called "hidden costs"
> of owning a hybrid.
>

Probably used coca cola to clean the battery terminals =)
Nice link. Thanks

Mr Ed

Only my A/C shuts down for short periods. No brown outs. I know the power
Co. often lowers the voltage on hot days, but they are aware that
synchronous motors & Compressors, trying to maintain the same power, will
draw "more" amperage not less. Resistive loads will draw less.

Mr Ed
http://www.ed-camin.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~bcamin/betty.htm
http://www.mountairykiwanis.org
http://www.ma-artleague.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~j3dogs/index.htm
"News" <News@Groups.com> wrote in message
news:doednfMUQpT_98janZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>
> Mr Ed wrote:
>> "News" <News@Groups.com> wrote in message
>> news:a5mdnVPrg6nbXsnanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>
>>>
>>>Retired VIP wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>>>>slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>>>>generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>>>>is shut off.
>>>
>>>
>>>Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
>>>customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!
>>>
>>>How do you suppose they do that?
>>
>>
>> My entrance has a box controlled by "carrier current" transmissions. In
>> the summer when A/C's are all running, all over, on an extremely hot day,
>> my A/C will shut down for short periods.
>
>
> And your lights dim, too?
>
> All your UPS brownout trigger?

EdV

On Dec 5, 9:28 am, "Mr Ed" <eca...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Only my A/C shuts down for short periods. No brown outs. I know the power
> Co. often lowers the voltage on hot days, but they are aware that
> synchronous motors & Compressors, trying to maintain the same power, will
> draw "more" amperage not less. Resistive loads will draw less.
>
> Mr Ed

If more ampere is drawn, then your circuit breaker should have
tripped.

News

EdV wrote:
> On Dec 5, 9:28 am, "Mr Ed" <eca...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Only my A/C shuts down for short periods. No brown outs. I know the power
>>Co. often lowers the voltage on hot days, but they are aware that
>>synchronous motors & Compressors, trying to maintain the same power, will
>>draw "more" amperage not less. Resistive loads will draw less.
>>
>>Mr Ed
>
>
> If more ampere is drawn, then your circuit breaker should have
> tripped.
>


Not if voltage is below the breaker's rating.

A breaker rated 20A at 120V (2.4kW), trips at 24A at 100V.

Mr Ed

"News" <News@Groups.com> wrote in message
news:d4-dnQ31JP5-XcvanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
>
> EdV wrote:
>> On Dec 5, 9:28 am, "Mr Ed" <eca...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Only my A/C shuts down for short periods. No brown outs. I know the
>>>power
>>>Co. often lowers the voltage on hot days, but they are aware that
>>>synchronous motors & Compressors, trying to maintain the same power, will
>>>draw "more" amperage not less. Resistive loads will draw less.
>>>
>>>Mr Ed
>>
>>
>> If more ampere is drawn, then your circuit breaker should have
>> tripped.
>>
>
>
> Not if voltage is below the breaker's rating.
>
> A breaker rated 20A at 120V (2.4kW), trips at 24A at 100V.

In a perfect world. My power Co doesn't lower it enough to trip.

Mr Ed
http://www.ed-camin.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~bcamin/betty.htm
http://www.mountairykiwanis.org
http://www.ma-artleague.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~j3dogs/index.htm

Guest

I've got a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Highway mileage is indeed less than
the suburban driving.

Walt

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:SSx4j.30111$Pv2.1061@newssvr23.news.prodigy.n et...
> richard schumacher wrote:
>> In article <R623j.24797$JD.16681@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have no experiences with a hybrid, but most manufacturers
>>> advertise a lower MPG highway driving then city, at least in most of
>>> the commercial material I have seen.
>>
>> In the US automakers are required to show only the EPA's figures,
>> which are faulty. Real Priuses usually get better fuel economy on
>> the highway than in stop-and-go city driving.
>
> That very well may be the case, though I was speaking of all hybrids in
> general. Not sure if the Prius would be considered an outlier or not....
>

EdV

City driving produces more regenerative braking than highway driving.

On Dec 6, 10:13 pm, <waterbi...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> I've got a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Highway mileage is indeed less than
> the suburban driving.
>
> Walt