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Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Business Week
Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's new Insight and Toyota's third-generation Prius is proving to be an enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric models, the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither one is skimping when it comes to generating hype... Continued: http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Hope their TOTAL Life CO2 will be less than a Jeep with the new model
"rtc" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:1860B155655B4B039F2D55D0FDCA3C71@DefaultPC... > Business Week > > Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's > new Insight and Toyota's third-generation Prius is proving to be an > enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric models, > the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither > one is skimping when it comes to generating hype... > > Continued: http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going
for a Prius exterior look, but it employs the same mild hybrid IMA set- up Honda used on the Civic, which left me totally unimpressed. In article <1860B155655B4B039F2D55D0FDCA3C71@DefaultPC>, rtc (Use- Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]) says... > Business Week > > Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's > new Insight and Toyota's third-generation Prius is proving to be an > enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric models, > the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither one > is skimping when it comes to generating hype... > > Continued: http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar > > |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Actually, it is going for a HCX /Insight 1/FCX Clarity look, the Prius
copied Honda, not the other way. "Mr. G" <mrg@aol.com> wrote in message news:MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com. .. > From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going > for a Prius exterior look, but it employs the same mild hybrid IMA set- > up Honda used on the Civic, which left me totally unimpressed. > > In article <1860B155655B4B039F2D55D0FDCA3C71@DefaultPC>, rtc (Use- > Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]) says... >> Business Week >> >> Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's >> new Insight and Toyota's third-generation Prius is proving to be an >> enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric >> models, >> the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither >> one >> is skimping when it comes to generating hype... >> >> Continued: http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar >> >> |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <gqs0vn$3uc$1@news.motzarella.org>, Justbob30 (justbob30
@hotmail.com) says... > Actually, it is going for a HCX /Insight 1/FCX Clarity look, the Prius > copied Honda, not the other way. > The original Insight looks *nothing* like either the new Insight or the Prius, and the Clarity concept car wasn't unveiled until long after the NHW20 Prius. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>,
Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: > From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going > for a Prius exterior look, The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the Prius. -- It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Does anyone who does not have a private jet at their beck and call actually
drive these the most ungreen of green cars? |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
I've just driven the new Insight. As an owner of the current-edition
Prius since its release in October 2003, my opinion of the Honda entry is of course mostly shaped by my Prius experience. I've also driven the Accord and Civic hybrids, though. Nice cars, but seem to be playing catch-up. They all run much like a series hybrid rather than the remarkable Toyota parallel system. Few will drive Insight and Prius and choose the Honda, as it's simply less of a car. When the new Prius reaches the market, the difference will grow. Ike |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <73eidgFuhcjiU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Ttoommy" <ttoommy@googlemail.co.uk> wrote: > Does anyone who does not have a private jet at their beck and call actually > drive these the most ungreen of green cars? I think you have the wrong newsgroup; the Hummer group is down the hall. -- It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Yeah, Ike, I guess it is a matter of perspective. I have an HCHII, the
reasons I bought it are many, first I did not want to tell the world "look at me I have a hybrid" it is more like a car not a video game with an overall better look and feel. I have driven the Prius 1,000 miles in 4 days, not fun...less headroom, seating position too upright, I HATE the video game screen, I HATE the a/c controls, the bar across the back, the seating position is too high & too upright, less headroom odd console, cup holder, pushbutton start, shift knobbie on the dash to bang my knee on the list goes on and on, yes I know it has more interior room than the Civic but in the cargo area, not in the passenger area where it counts....so, while my Civic may not be a Prius, I am thankful for that every day, yeah, I get 1 less mpg than my friend with a prius but, who cares, at least I have a car I am comfortable in and does not have a top heavy skitterish ride. I does look like the 2010 prius has fixed most of my issues, I am sure the seating position has not been fixed because for me Toyotas (generally)have the most uncomfortable seats on the market and I see the bar across the back is there too (a major fault on the insight too, sadly). "Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message news:gqt6t6$fg5$1@news.motzarella.org... > I've just driven the new Insight. As an owner of the current-edition Prius > since its release in October 2003, my opinion of the Honda entry is of > course mostly shaped by my Prius experience. I've also driven the Accord > and Civic hybrids, though. Nice cars, but seem to be playing catch-up. > They all run much like a series hybrid rather than the remarkable Toyota > parallel system. > > Few will drive Insight and Prius and choose the Honda, as it's simply less > of a car. When the new Prius reaches the market, the difference will grow. > > Ike |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Yes Tommy, People do, in spite of your obvious hybrid misinformation and
disgust for anything different than what you have. you have posted 2 vague accusations now, post some facts and, please don't post that tired urban legend about the nickel mines in Canada that were cleaned up 10 years before the Hybrid was introduced "Ttoommy" <ttoommy@googlemail.co.uk> wrote in message news:73eidgFuhcjiU1@mid.individual.net... > Does anyone who does not have a private jet at their beck and call > actually drive these the most ungreen of green cars? > > |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <gqt6t6$fg5$1@news.motzarella.org>,
Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote: > Few will drive Insight and Prius and choose the Honda, as it's simply > less of a car. Everyone will evaluate the features and size against the price for each vehicle, and will make his own choice. Not everyone wants or can afford the Prius. While they might have otherwise bought a Corolla, now that the Honda is out many will go that route. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <gqt8vh$26s$1@news.motzarella.org>,
"Justbob30" <justbob30@hotmail.com> wrote: > I have driven the Prius 1,000 miles in 4 days, not fun... 250 miles a day??? Where's the stress in THAT? The Prius is a very comfortable car, even for 1000 miles in one day. > I HATE the video game screen I don't even see it anymore. I agree--it was way too much "look at me! I'm different!" > I HATE the a/c > controls ??? Little button on the wheel--it goes up, it goes down, the temperature goes accordingly. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net>,
Michelle Steiner (michelle@michelle.org) says... > In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, > Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: > > > From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going > > for a Prius exterior look, > > The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the > Prius. I guess you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes looking 'alike'. I've seen the Insight in a showroom, I've seen photos, and there's one I often see on my drive to work. It has never occurred to me that it looks anything like a Prius. Or the new Insight. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <MPG.243c6f3e42f634889896b5@news.giganews.com>,
Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: > I've seen the Insight in a showroom, I've seen photos, and > there's one I often see on my drive to work. It has never occurred to > me that it looks anything like a Prius. Or the new Insight. Absolutely agreed. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Mar 30, 11:24 pm, Mr. G <m...@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <gqs0vn$3u...@news.motzarella.org>, Justbob30 (justbob30 > @hotmail.com) says...> Actually, it is going for a HCX /Insight 1/FCX Clarity look, the Prius > > copied Honda, not the other way. > > The original Insight looks *nothing* like either the new Insight or the > Prius, and the Clarity concept car wasn't unveiled until long after the > NHW20 Prius. yeah, the original insight reminds me of the pedal powered speed record competitors with its ultraaerodynamics. the new one is more of a junior civic hybrid. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
thus spoke the green taliban :(
CO2 MUST be cut by 80% by 2050 yet even green experts say its only higher than the 14th C by 30% - WTF? "Justbob30" <justbob30@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:gqt9d2$5p0$1@news.motzarella.org... > Yes Tommy, People do, in spite of your obvious hybrid misinformation and > disgust for anything different than what you have. you have posted 2 > vague accusations now, post some facts and, please don't post that tired > urban legend about the nickel mines in Canada that were cleaned up 10 > years before the Hybrid was introduced > > "Ttoommy" <ttoommy@googlemail.co.uk> wrote in message > news:73eidgFuhcjiU1@mid.individual.net... >> Does anyone who does not have a private jet at their beck and call >> actually drive these the most ungreen of green cars? >> >> |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Ttoommy wrote:
> thus spoke the green taliban :( > > CO2 MUST be cut by 80% by 2050 yet even green experts say its only higher > than the 14th C by 30% - WTF? Those are percentages of two different things, in much the same way that the debt and the deficit are different. The 80% cut by 2050 refers to CO2 emissions. Globally, we're currently emitting on the order of 30 billion tonnes of CO2 annually. The 30% increase refers to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, currently 387 ppmv, or about 3 trillion tonnes. Cutting emissions by 80% by 2050 would mean that atmospheric CO2 levels should peak at around 450 to 500 ppmv, or about 60-80% higher than pre-industrial levels. > "Justbob30" <justbob30@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:gqt9d2$5p0$1@news.motzarella.org... >> Yes Tommy, People do, in spite of your obvious hybrid misinformation and >> disgust for anything different than what you have. you have posted 2 >> vague accusations now, post some facts and, please don't post that tired >> urban legend about the nickel mines in Canada that were cleaned up 10 >> years before the Hybrid was introduced >> >> "Ttoommy" <ttoommy@googlemail.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:73eidgFuhcjiU1@mid.individual.net... >>> Does anyone who does not have a private jet at their beck and call >>> actually drive these the most ungreen of green cars? |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message news:michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net... > In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, > Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: > >> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going >> for a Prius exterior look, > > The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the > Prius. The original Insight looked, to me, nothing like the '04 Prius or the new Insight. Cathy > > -- > It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to > America. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Cathy F. wrote:
> "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message > news:michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net... >> In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, >> Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going >>> for a Prius exterior look, >> The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the >> Prius. > > The original Insight looked, to me, nothing like the '04 Prius or the new > Insight. > > Cathy As I recall, that general aerodynamic shape is called the KAMM BACK. Audi A2, Insight (both), Prius -- all are in that family, along with many competition cars. Perhaps the horrific Pontiac Aztec, as well. Ike ....hoping that Obama succeeds, but planning for an abysmal failure |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message news:gr8vmp$1rl$1@news.motzarella.org... > Cathy F. wrote: >> "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message >> news:michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net... >>> In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, >>> Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going >>>> for a Prius exterior look, >>> The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the >>> Prius. >> >> The original Insight looked, to me, nothing like the '04 Prius or the new >> Insight. >> >> Cathy > > > As I recall, that general aerodynamic shape is called the KAMM BACK. The back/tail end, AFAIK, is what constitutes the Kamm back. Not the entire general shape. Cathy > Audi A2, Insight (both), Prius -- all are in that family, along with many > competition cars. Perhaps the horrific Pontiac Aztec, as well. > > Ike > > ...hoping that Obama succeeds, but planning for an abysmal failure |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"rtc" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:1860B155655B4B039F2D55D0FDCA3C71@DefaultPC... > Business Week > > Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's > new Insight and Toyota's third-generation Prius is proving to be an > enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric models, > the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither > one is skimping when it comes to generating hype... > > Continued: http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar Yes, going to be interesting... Cathy > |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Cathy F. wrote:
> "Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:gr8vmp$1rl$1@news.motzarella.org... >> Cathy F. wrote: >>> "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message >>> news:michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net... >>>> In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, >>>> Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going >>>>> for a Prius exterior look, >>>> The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the >>>> Prius. >>> The original Insight looked, to me, nothing like the '04 Prius or the new >>> Insight. >>> >>> Cathy >> >> As I recall, that general aerodynamic shape is called the KAMM BACK. > > The back/tail end, AFAIK, is what constitutes the Kamm back. Not the entire > general shape. > > Cathy Well, no. There's a mathematical description of the shape, in which the butt truncation occurs where its cross-sectional area is equal to a specific percentage of the maximum cross section of the vehicle (about half, I think). It's the gestalt - the whole car. Ike Increasingly dubious that anyone, including Saint Barack, has any chance whatsoever of avoiding an economic collapse, rampant inflation, and sociological cataclysm. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message news:gr91th$i64$1@news.motzarella.org... > Cathy F. wrote: >> "Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:gr8vmp$1rl$1@news.motzarella.org... >>> Cathy F. wrote: >>>> "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message >>>> news:michelle-69716C.22505130032009@mara100-84.onlink.net... >>>>> In article <MPG.243b4a9f5cc3a2c89896b3@news.giganews.com>, >>>>> Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From what I've read and seen about the Insight, they seem to be going >>>>>> for a Prius exterior look, >>>>> The original 2-seater Insight had that same look, and it predated the >>>>> Prius. >>>> The original Insight looked, to me, nothing like the '04 Prius or the >>>> new Insight. >>>> >>>> Cathy >>> >>> As I recall, that general aerodynamic shape is called the KAMM BACK. >> >> The back/tail end, AFAIK, is what constitutes the Kamm back. Not the >> entire general shape. >> >> Cathy > > Well, no. There's a mathematical description of the shape, in which the > butt truncation occurs where its cross-sectional area is equal to a > specific percentage of the maximum cross section of the vehicle (about > half, I think). It's the gestalt - the whole car. You know what...? Whichever it is technically, I do not think the original Insight resembled the new one, nor the Prius (which the new Insight does resemble - shape-wise). And... why would Honda even *want* the new Insight to resemble the old one, considering how that one fared? They need a fresh new start with this version, which I think they're getting. Cathy > > Ike > > Increasingly dubious that anyone, including Saint Barack, has any chance > whatsoever of avoiding an economic collapse, rampant inflation, and > sociological cataclysm. > |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Mar 31, 8:47 am, Ike <binarydot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Few will drive Insight and Prius and choose the Honda, as it's simply > less of a car. When the new Prius reaches the market, the difference > will grow. The Insight's electric motor provides 13 HP compared to 67 HP for the Prius. That has a major impact on city driving with regenerative braking less able to recover energy while stopping. The original Insight used aluminum extensively to lower weight and improve crashworthiness. -- Ron |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Mar 30, 10:36 am, "rtc" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]
> wrote: > Business Week > > Given the parlous state of the auto industry, the rivalry between Honda's > newInsightand Toyota's third-generationPriusis proving to be an > enjoyable diversion. Committed to increasing sales of gas-electric models, > the companies are launching hybrid cars in quick succession-and neither one > is skimping when it comes to generating hype... > > Continued:http://tinyurl.com/HybridWar This weekend I rented a 2009 Prius (Basic) to validate what since now I have had only read about. I drove the Prius on suburban roads and for a brief time I tested it out on a 6 lane super highway. At high speeds the cabin was a slightly noisy . The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling of all the really big differences - rather than have a different position for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive mode - and to park one needs to press a park button. The motion was not easy for me and there was no positive feel with the joystick - so I found myself constantly looking at the LED display to determine if I was in the correct drive mode. Using the energy display, it was fairly easy to get the Prius to average between 45 to 55 mpg. However, the energy displays position in the center of the car is somewhat distracting. I would have preferred an *energy* display next to speedometer display (one led for battery recharging, one led for gasoline engine drive on, one led for eletric engine drive on, and a real-time Led MPG gauge ) The Prius really shines when it comes to maximizing fuel efficiency. The hints that I had read on hypermiling with the Prius came in handy - e.g. tapping the brake pedals before an anticipate stop helps initiate the battery recharging earlier than if the computer were to initiate it. Also getting the car up to speed quickly and then letting go of the accelerator to cut off the gas engine and then slightly pressing the accelerator to try to the electric motor to maintain the speed on a downhill or flat road helps push up the MPGs. However, for sudden short stop-and-go traffic and driving uphill - the Prius mpg suffered (also I've read that the Prius MPG also suffers when it is really cold. ISTM the Prius can get over 50 mpg when it is driven in warm dry weather over relatively flat roads over long distances with few stops ). If one is driving in very agressive highway environment or short trips that are have a great deal of stop and go traffic - it would be difficult for a driver to modify their driving to get the optimum fuel efficiency from the 2009 Prius. I found the fuel gauge is not a linear indicator of how much fuel is left in the Prius. The Prius is suppose to have a 11.9 gallon fuel *bladder" ; when the Prius is down to its last 3 gallons a low fuel gauge warning light is suppose to go on. The fuel gauge has 10 led segments when it was down to three led segments I filled it with 3 gallons - but it only raised the fuel gauge to 4 led segments - so then I filled it with 3 more gallons which then increase the fuel gauge setting to 10 led segments (initially when I got car from the rental office - the fuel gauge was at five led segments (1/2 way full marker) . The sunlight had a tendency to washout the LCD screen it would have been easier to read if the LCD screen had some sun visor over top of it. Not all of the buttons and dials on the dashboard and on the steering wheel don't light up (at night) making them harder to find them in the dark. . The volume dial and the seek button are too close to each other. If the back of front passenger seat was shorter or if there was slightty more distant between the backseat and the front passenger seat one might be able to take off the front passenger seat head rest and push the back of the front passenger seat all the way down (like the honda fit) and fit a very long object in the passenger side... With the front passenger seat pushed forward all the way and the rear seats folded down - the maximum cargo length is abou 6.25 feet. maximum cargo height is about 2.4 feet and the maximum cargo width is from 3.25 to 4.feet. The Prius isn't a very fast car - so merging into a superhighway is its weakest trait. I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction tires don't perform that well in rain and snow.... Lastly, the Prius as well as probably all non SUV hybrids doesn't have any towing capacity. The total weight of the driver, passengers, and cargo in the Prius (Vehicle Capacity Weight) is not suppose to be over 810 pounds. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article
<d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93712@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote: > so I found myself constantly looking at the LED display to determine > if I was in the correct drive mode. Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour for that selector to become second nature. > However, the energy displays position in the center of the car is > somewhat distracting. One can change the display to something else, or even turn it off completely. > I would have preferred an *energy* display next to speedometer > display That's coming with the 2010 model. In fact, the center display screen will be gone completely unless you have the GPS navigation package. > However, for sudden short stop-and-go traffic and driving uphill - > the Prius mpg suffered True, but it still gets better mileage under those conditions than other cars do, because their mileage suffers as well. > also I've read that the Prius MPG also suffers when it is really > cold. As do all internal-combustion engines. > If one is driving in very agressive highway environment or short > trips that are have a great deal of stop and go traffic - it would be > difficult for a driver to modify their driving to get the optimum > fuel efficiency from the 2009 Prius. True, but the same is also true of other cars. > I found the fuel gauge is not a linear indicator of how much fuel is > left in the Prius. That's true of all gas gauges, but the bladder makes it more so with the Prius; the bladder is in only the US versions of the car, BTW. > The Prius is suppose to have a 11.9 gallon fuel *bladder" ; The bladder will be gone with the 2010 model. > The sunlight had a tendency to washout the LCD screen it would have > been easier to read if the LCD screen had some sun visor over top of > it. That's because the LCD screen is polarized for left-hand drive. It's been a sore point for many drivers who have right-and drive models. > Not all of the buttons and dials on the dashboard and on the steering > wheel don't light up (at night) making them harder to find them in > the dark. Actually, all the ones on the steering wheel do, but they're not bright enough. The ones on the dash that don't light up are rarely used. > The Prius isn't a very fast car - so merging into a superhighway is > its weakest trait. I've never had a problem with that; the car can go up to over 100 MPH, and I've found acceleration to be very brisk. It's not a muscle car, but it is peppy enough to not have any merge problems. I'm up to highway speed by the time I reach the end of the onramp, before I am in the merge lane. -- It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article
<d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93712@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote: > The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling > of all the really big differences - rather than have a different > position > for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is > in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction > (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for > that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake > pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive > mode Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT of park. Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong. What else were you doing wrong? > I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction > tires don't perform that well in rain and snow.... I read that too--and yet, I went through 40K miles and two winters without a hint of problem. Go figure. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-ACE973.06295613042009@mara100-84.onlink.net... > In article > <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93712@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, > residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote: > >> The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling >> of all the really big differences - rather than have a different >> position >> for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is >> in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction >> (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for >> that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake >> pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive >> mode > > Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT > of park. > > Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the > brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong. > > What else were you doing wrong? > > > > >> I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction >> tires don't perform that well in rain and snow.... > > I read that too--and yet, I went through 40K miles and two winters > without a hint of problem. Go figure. Not me. After the first 20K the tires were useless on ice and snow. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Why does it have to be a war?
Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology next decade. Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time. Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In message
<8d121eff-d2f5-4e4d-85c8-20598b872323@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>, rick++ <rick303@hotmail.com> writes >Why does it have to be a war? >Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology >next decade. >Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time. >Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes. Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your money? -- Clive |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Apr 13, 10:28 am, Clive <Cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your > money? At first glance, that would be $5.93, but a British gallon is larger than a US gallon so the UK price would be $5.00 per US gallon. -- Ron |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
"Clive" <Clive@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:e33c6rABo14JFwPD@yewbank.demon.co.uk... > In message > <8d121eff-d2f5-4e4d-85c8-20598b872323@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>, rick++ > <rick303@hotmail.com> writes >>Why does it have to be a war? >>Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology >>next decade. >>Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time. >>Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes. > Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your money? > -- > Clive A little under $6.00. Doesn't that higher tax pay for your health care too? If we added our health care costs to our gas costs we would be paying about $10.00 gallon right now. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
Elmo P. Shagnasty schreef:
> In article > <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93712@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, > residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote: > >> The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling >> of all the really big differences - rather than have a different >> position >> for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is >> in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction >> (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for >> that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake >> pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive >> mode > > Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT > of park. > > Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the > brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong. > When I backup from my driveway I switch from R to D without even touching my brake. It works very smoothly. Only if you switch from N or P to any drive mode you have to press the brake pedal, just like any other automatic. Thibaud |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Apr 13, 2:33 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> At first glance, that would be $5.93, but a British gallon is larger > than a US gallon so the UK price would be $5.00 per US gallon. It reached $8 last year before the Pound tumbled. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
On Apr 13, 6:29 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote: > In article > <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93...@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, > > residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote: > > The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling > > of all the really big differences - rather than have a different > > position > > for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is > > in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction > > (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for > > that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake > > pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive > > mode > > Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT > of park. > > Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the > brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong. > > What else were you doing wrong? I only had a 30 second review of the operations of the Prius from the rental agency - so initially what I knew was from the internet. Luckily - there was an owner's manual in glove compartment and I spent some time reading that on the second day I had the car. Renting a Prius was a great way to learn more about the it - I wish I could rent an Insight too ( but I don't think that opportunity will arise atleast not locally where I live). I think user manual should have spent more time explaining their unique drive mode shifter - which I think was different enough from standard transmission systems to warrant more space in the user manual However, even after reading the manual, I found that when I I was getting the car out of park I would occasionally shift it into drive when I meant to shift it into reverse. - and vice versa. It was only when I focus on the blue LED display that I could consistently do it right. > > > I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction > > tires don't perform that well in rain and snow.... > > I read that too--and yet, I went through 40K miles and two winters > without a hint of problem. Go figure. I'm not sure whether to believe or discount what I've been reading on the internet. However, it did freak me out and when it was raining last saturday - i didn't drive the prius.... I should have driven it in the rain maybe in a empty parking lot to test the braking in the rain - but I chickened out. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
thanks for replying to my posting it was very informative.
On Apr 13, 2:24 am, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote: > In article > <d5645727-c223-4a20-8fcb-301320e93...@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, > > residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote: > > so I found myself constantly looking at the LED display to determine > > if I was in the correct drive mode. > > Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the > correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used > except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour > for that selector to become second nature. hmm... considering that CVT and hybrids are the wave of the future - I hope all this becomes second nature to me soon... > > > However, the energy displays position in the center of the car is > > somewhat distracting. > > One can change the display to something else, or even turn it off > completely. True But -- I found myself constantly glancing at the energy display to see how I could drive more efficiently. I suppose as one racks up more experience with the Prius, there is no need to view energy display. > > > I would have preferred an *energy* display next to speedometer > > display > > That's coming with the 2010 model. In fact, the center display screen > will be gone completely unless you have the GPS navigation package. > > > However, for sudden short stop-and-go traffic and driving uphill - > > the Prius mpg suffered > > True, but it still gets better mileage under those conditions than other > cars do, because their mileage suffers as well. > > > also I've read that the Prius MPG also suffers when it is really > > cold. > > As do all internal-combustion engines. > > > If one is driving in very agressive highway environment or short > > trips that are have a great deal of stop and go traffic - it would be > > difficult for a driver to modify their driving to get the optimum > > fuel efficiency from the 2009 Prius. > > True, but the same is also true of other cars. > > > I found the fuel gauge is not a linear indicator of how much fuel is > > left in the Prius. > > That's true of all gas gauges, but the bladder makes it more so with the > Prius; the bladder is in only the US versions of the car, BTW. Even so - I really wish the Prius had an an accurate 3/4 1/2 and 1/4 mark indicators on the gasoline gauge. Another cool software option might be an overall Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up so you could ask whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?. > > > The Prius is suppose to have a 11.9 gallon fuel *bladder" ; > > The bladder will be gone with the 2010 model. > > > The sunlight had a tendency to washout the LCD screen it would have > > been easier to read if the LCD screen had some sun visor over top of > > it. > > That's because the LCD screen is polarized for left-hand drive. It's > been a sore point for many drivers who have right-and drive models. > > > > Not all of the buttons and dials on the dashboard and on the steering > > wheel don't light up (at night) making them harder to find them in > > the dark. > > Actually, all the ones on the steering wheel do, but they're not bright > enough. The ones on the dash that don't light up are rarely used. What didn't light up that I would have really like to have lite up at night: the power side mirror control buttons on the driver's door, the dial controlling the air vents (maybe green glow-in-the-dark plastic dials?) , the horn button on the steering wheel. Where I would have liked led lights - inside the driver's center console compartment (to identify where that plug is ), I would have also like more preset buttons for the radio on the touch screen radio control panel - If I had more time with the prius I would have like to study the climate control more. > > > The Prius isn't a very fast car - so merging into a superhighway is > > its weakest trait. > > I've never had a problem with that; the car can go up to over 100 MPH, > and I've found acceleration to be very brisk. It's not a muscle car, > but it is peppy enough to not have any merge problems. I'm up to > highway speed by the time I reach the end of the onramp, before I am in > the merge lane. my experience.... When merging into I-270 ( a maryland super highway) there was a dozen vehicles going at 65 miles per hour all driving with about three car lengths between each of them - When accelerating the Prius up to 60 to 65 miles per hour on the merging lane to parallel to the right lane it seems that some vehicles these were *speeding up* just to try to make it more difficult for the prius to merge into the right lane .. The owner manual warned not to drive faster than 85mph which is the maximum speed the car's tires are rated for. > > -- > It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <22dddcf7-29b0-4763-a96a-00951ae0c7b0
@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, (residualselfimage1999@gmail.com) says... > I'm not sure whether to believe or discount what I've > been reading on the internet. However, it did freak me > out and when it was raining last saturday - i didn't > drive the prius.... I should have driven it in the rain > maybe in a empty parking lot to test the braking > in the rain - but I chickened out. > I've driven the Prius with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires in torrential rain at highway speeds, as well as winding secondary roads, and never had a problem. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <0bad91d1-c240-454f-9b87-c1d77851e028
@k38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, (residualselfimage1999@gmail.com) says... > > Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the > > correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used > > except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour > > for that selector to become second nature. > > hmm... considering that CVT and hybrids are > the wave of the future - I hope all this becomes > second nature to me soon... The Prius shifter is neither a CVT nor a hybrid thing... it's a Prius thing. > But -- I found myself constantly glancing at the energy > display to see how I could drive more efficiently. > I suppose as one racks up more experience with the Prius, > there is no need to view energy display. I use the energy/consumption display all the time, and it's no more of a distraction than any other gauge. All it requires is an occasional glance, which is no different than checking your mirrors. > Another cool software option might be an overall > Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and > the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up... The consumption screen shows MPG since last reset, and miles since last fill-up. If you hit [Reset] at each fill-up, then you'll have your overall MPG for the last tank. > ...so you could ask > whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?. Filling up with premium will not gain you anything, except for a lighter wallet. |
Re: Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota
In article <MPG.2452cce5f51edc309896b7@news.giganews.com>,
Mr. G <mrg@aol.com> wrote: > I've driven the Prius with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires in > torrential rain at highway speeds, as well as winding secondary roads, > and never had a problem. That was my experience--down to the "torrential rain" thing, not to mention a couple decent winters. Mine's a company car; when they changed out the OEM tires a few weeks ago and put on some God-knows-what things, my mileage dropped like a rock. Hint: the Prius is a carefully engineered system, down to the tires. Change out anything, including the tires, and you break the system. Want to keep the mileage up? Keep with the Integritys (or similar tires designed for high fuel efficiency using low rolling resistance design). |
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