|
Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two
big updates. 1) New section on igniter function http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html 2) Coil failure http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there are surely mistakes somewhere. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. Good job, John. Thanks! |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. Good job, John. Thanks! |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
"Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1117278349.305101.146650@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com: > TeGGeR® wrote: >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > Good job, John. Thanks! > Thanks. Thanks are also owed to all those (including you) who helped by supplying much valuable information. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
"Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1117278349.305101.146650@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com: > TeGGeR® wrote: >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > Good job, John. Thanks! > Thanks. Thanks are also owed to all those (including you) who helped by supplying much valuable information. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, "TeGGeR®"
<tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. Tegger, Thanks again for your help. I just wanted to let you know that I received a letter from Honda and the title of the recall notice was: Ignition key is removable with the shift lever out of Park I took my Honda to the local Honda dealership and they installed the following as per the service report: 1 06351-S84-000 KIT, LEVER (A) I don't know whether the first number 1 is part of the part number or means that only one kit was installed. I hope this helps. I have not yet had a chance to revisit your web site. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, "TeGGeR®"
<tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. Tegger, Thanks again for your help. I just wanted to let you know that I received a letter from Honda and the title of the recall notice was: Ignition key is removable with the shift lever out of Park I took my Honda to the local Honda dealership and they installed the following as per the service report: 1 06351-S84-000 KIT, LEVER (A) I don't know whether the first number 1 is part of the part number or means that only one kit was installed. I hope this helps. I have not yet had a chance to revisit your web site. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. A little adjustment to the graphics: The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > big updates. > > 1) New section on igniter function > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > > 2) Coil failure > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > > Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > are surely mistakes somewhere. A little adjustment to the graphics: The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > >>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two >>big updates. >> >>1) New section on igniter function >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >>2) Coil failure >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there >>are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding > (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition > systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the > primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than > some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before > the spark plug discharges the energy. interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both have the same igniter. any thoughts? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > >>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two >>big updates. >> >>1) New section on igniter function >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >>2) Coil failure >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there >>are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding > (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition > systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the > primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than > some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before > the spark plug discharges the energy. interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both have the same igniter. any thoughts? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <k6GdnTKjuPj7LQbfRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > Kevin McMurtrie wrote: > > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > > > > >>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > >>big updates. > >> > >>1) New section on igniter function > >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > >> > >>2) Coil failure > >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > >> > >>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > >>are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding > > (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. > > > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition > > systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the > > primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than > > some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before > > the spark plug discharges the energy. > > interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & > subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, > excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, > from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both > have the same igniter. any thoughts? The coil might have an internal condenser or a small shorted winding. An oscilloscope on the primary coil would show you what's going on. I'm doing this from memory so the shape might be a little off: v- Spark plug discharge | | |# |## | | | | | | --- | -------------------------- ----------- ^ ^ ^ flyback | charge open circuit Without a condenser, the initial spike is much higher and it rises so steeply that it might not produce a visible trace on the oscilloscope. | |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <k6GdnTKjuPj7LQbfRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > Kevin McMurtrie wrote: > > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > > > > >>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two > >>big updates. > >> > >>1) New section on igniter function > >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > >> > >>2) Coil failure > >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > >> > >>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there > >>are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding > > (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. > > > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition > > systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the > > primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than > > some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before > > the spark plug discharges the energy. > > interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & > subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, > excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, > from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both > have the same igniter. any thoughts? The coil might have an internal condenser or a small shorted winding. An oscilloscope on the primary coil would show you what's going on. I'm doing this from memory so the shape might be a little off: v- Spark plug discharge | | |# |## | | | | | | --- | -------------------------- ----------- ^ ^ ^ flyback | charge open circuit Without a condenser, the initial spike is much higher and it rises so steeply that it might not produce a visible trace on the oscilloscope. | |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <k6GdnTKjuPj7LQbfRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>, > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > > >>Kevin McMurtrie wrote: >> >>>In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, >>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two >>>>big updates. >>>> >>>>1) New section on igniter function >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >>>> >>>>2) Coil failure >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >>>> >>>>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there >>>>are surely mistakes somewhere. >>> >>> >>>A little adjustment to the graphics: >>> >>>The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the >>>ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding >>>(which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. >>> >>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition >>>systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the >>>primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than >>>some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before >>>the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >>interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & >>subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, >>excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, >>from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both >>have the same igniter. any thoughts? > > > The coil might have an internal condenser or a small shorted winding. > An oscilloscope on the primary coil would show you what's going on. > > I'm doing this from memory so the shape might be a little off: > > > v- Spark plug discharge > > | > | > |# > |## > | | > | | > | | > --- | -------------------------- > ----------- > > ^ ^ ^ flyback > | charge > open circuit > > > Without a condenser, the initial spike is much higher and it rises so > steeply that it might not produce a visible trace on the oscilloscope. > > > > | > > > . > > > .# > ## > | > | > | > --- -------------------------- > ----------- makes sense. i have an old scope so i can check between the two. thanks! |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <k6GdnTKjuPj7LQbfRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>, > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > > >>Kevin McMurtrie wrote: >> >>>In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, >>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally finished two >>>>big updates. >>>> >>>>1) New section on igniter function >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >>>> >>>>2) Coil failure >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >>>> >>>>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so there >>>>are surely mistakes somewhere. >>> >>> >>>A little adjustment to the graphics: >>> >>>The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the >>>ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary winding >>>(which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the transistors. >>> >>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic ignition >>>systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage on the >>>primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise faster than >>>some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even rise before >>>the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >>interesting. i had 2 igniters fail inside a year on my 89 civic & >>subsequently discovered that the condenser had failed. presumably, >>excess flyback was responsible. but, my 91 crx has no condenser at all, >>from factory. what's up with that? works fine, no r.f problems. both >>have the same igniter. any thoughts? > > > The coil might have an internal condenser or a small shorted winding. > An oscilloscope on the primary coil would show you what's going on. > > I'm doing this from memory so the shape might be a little off: > > > v- Spark plug discharge > > | > | > |# > |## > | | > | | > | | > --- | -------------------------- > ----------- > > ^ ^ ^ flyback > | charge > open circuit > > > Without a condenser, the initial spike is much higher and it rises so > steeply that it might not produce a visible trace on the oscilloscope. > > > > | > > > . > > > .# > ## > | > | > | > --- -------------------------- > ----------- makes sense. i have an old scope so i can check between the two. thanks! |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in
news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > transistors. Take a look at this, from Graham W. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in
news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > transistors. Take a look at this, from Graham W. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns9666EF231308Dtegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in > news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > > > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally > >> finished two big updates. > >> > >> 1) New section on igniter function > >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > >> > >> 2) Coil failure > >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > >> > >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so > >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > > transistors. > > > Take a look at this, from Graham W. > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington pair. As I see it: 1: Tach output 2: Coil output 3: +12V 4: TDC pickup Case: GND The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. > > > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. > > > So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to > blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <Xns9666EF231308Dtegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in > news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > > > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally > >> finished two big updates. > >> > >> 1) New section on igniter function > >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html > >> > >> 2) Coil failure > >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil > >> > >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so > >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > > transistors. > > > Take a look at this, from Graham W. > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington pair. As I see it: 1: Tach output 2: Coil output 3: +12V 4: TDC pickup Case: GND The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. > > > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. > > > So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to > blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <Xns9666EF231308Dtegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > >>Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in >>news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: >> >> >>>In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, >>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >>>>finished two big updates. >>>> >>>>1) New section on igniter function >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >>>> >>>>2) Coil failure >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >>>> >>>>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >>>>there are surely mistakes somewhere. >>> >>>A little adjustment to the graphics: >>> >>>The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the >>>ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary >>>winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the >>>transistors. >> >> >>Take a look at this, from Graham W. >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg >> > > > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington > pair. As I see it: > > 1: Tach output > 2: Coil output > 3: +12V > 4: TDC pickup > Case: GND > > The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form > (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets signal. but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > >>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >>>ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >>>on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >>>faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >>>rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >> >>So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >>blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. > > > Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil > on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary > coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as > a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <Xns9666EF231308Dtegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > > >>Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in >>news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: >> >> >>>In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, >>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >>>>finished two big updates. >>>> >>>>1) New section on igniter function >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >>>> >>>>2) Coil failure >>>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >>>> >>>>Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >>>>there are surely mistakes somewhere. >>> >>>A little adjustment to the graphics: >>> >>>The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the >>>ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary >>>winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the >>>transistors. >> >> >>Take a look at this, from Graham W. >>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg >> > > > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington > pair. As I see it: > > 1: Tach output > 2: Coil output > 3: +12V > 4: TDC pickup > Case: GND > > The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form > (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets signal. but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > >>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >>>ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >>>on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >>>faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >>>rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >> >>So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >>blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. > > > Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil > on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary > coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as > a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in news:mcmurtri-
8690B7.21204230052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington > pair. True. And I see that in these photos. http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm Here's another page to critique: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit...adigniter.html > As I see it: > > 1: Tach output It's there. > 2: Coil output It's there > 3: +12V It's there > 4: TDC pickup According to the diagrams I'm seeing, such as http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg #4 goes directly to the ECU. I think the TDC pickup goes directly to the ECU as well. > Case: GND Yes, but not really nesessary to show in this context. > The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form > (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. > > >> > >> > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >> > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >> > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >> > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >> > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >> >> So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >> blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. > > Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil > on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary > coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as > a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? > Sure! Thanks. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in news:mcmurtri-
8690B7.21204230052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington > pair. True. And I see that in these photos. http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm Here's another page to critique: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit...adigniter.html > As I see it: > > 1: Tach output It's there. > 2: Coil output It's there > 3: +12V It's there > 4: TDC pickup According to the diagrams I'm seeing, such as http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg #4 goes directly to the ECU. I think the TDC pickup goes directly to the ECU as well. > Case: GND Yes, but not really nesessary to show in this context. > The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form > (high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. > > >> > >> > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >> > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >> > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >> > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >> > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >> >> >> So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >> blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. > > Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil > on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary > coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as > a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? > Sure! Thanks. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because > i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with > the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the > ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets > signal. > > but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... > i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. That would really be appreciated, thanks. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because > i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with > the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the > ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets > signal. > > but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... > i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. That would really be appreciated, thanks. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in news:mcmurtri- > 8690B7.21204230052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > > > >>There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington >>pair. > > > > True. And I see that in these photos. > http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm > > Here's another page to critique: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit...adigniter.html looks like a good summary. obviously, as graham's pics show, there's more to the igiter than the darlington, but what you show is a good interpretation of the result. it's also worth mentioning that in both my igniter failures, there's been no code. terminal 4 is behaving as per normal, [hence no ecu] but the igniter output is failed hard "on" and switching the input makes no difference to output. i think it's also worth showing the condenser & mentioning its role too. it's a $25 part & a pita to replace, but mine failed with a near dead short so even before the igniter failed, my car had been chronically weak & the exhaust way sooty because there was no strenght to the spark. > > > >>As I see it: >> >>1: Tach output > > > > It's there. > > > >>2: Coil output > > > > It's there > > > >>3: +12V > > > > It's there > > > >>4: TDC pickup > > > According to the diagrams I'm seeing, such as > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > #4 goes directly to the ECU. I think the TDC pickup goes directly to the > ECU as well. > > > >>Case: GND > > > > Yes, but not really nesessary to show in this context. > > > > >>The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form >>(high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. >> >> >> >>>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >>>>ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >>>>on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >>>>faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >>>>rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >>> >>> >>>So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >>>blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. >> >>Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil >>on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary >>coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as >>a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? >> > > > > Sure! Thanks. > > > |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in news:mcmurtri- > 8690B7.21204230052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > > > >>There's a lot more in the Ignition Control Module than a darlington >>pair. > > > > True. And I see that in these photos. > http://www.gcw.org.uk/rover/igniter.htm > > Here's another page to critique: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit...adigniter.html looks like a good summary. obviously, as graham's pics show, there's more to the igiter than the darlington, but what you show is a good interpretation of the result. it's also worth mentioning that in both my igniter failures, there's been no code. terminal 4 is behaving as per normal, [hence no ecu] but the igniter output is failed hard "on" and switching the input makes no difference to output. i think it's also worth showing the condenser & mentioning its role too. it's a $25 part & a pita to replace, but mine failed with a near dead short so even before the igniter failed, my car had been chronically weak & the exhaust way sooty because there was no strenght to the spark. > > > >>As I see it: >> >>1: Tach output > > > > It's there. > > > >>2: Coil output > > > > It's there > > > >>3: +12V > > > > It's there > > > >>4: TDC pickup > > > According to the diagrams I'm seeing, such as > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/rov-ign.jpg > #4 goes directly to the ECU. I think the TDC pickup goes directly to the > ECU as well. > > > >>Case: GND > > > > Yes, but not really nesessary to show in this context. > > > > >>The TDC sensor produces a curved waveform. Integrating the form >>(high-pass) can produce the advanced timing needed for dwell. >> >> >> >>>>And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic >>>>ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage >>>>on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise >>>>faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even >>>>rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. >>> >>> >>>So how would I show that in the graphic? If there's a cap somewhere to >>>blunt the flyback, I'd like to have that shown. >> >>Maybe Jim Beam can take a photo of his o-scope. My new Honda has a coil >>on top of each spark plug so I'm not sure I can tap into the primary >>coil. I have a circuit that drives coils but it's not quite the same as >>a car ignition. Want a picture of that trace? >> > > > > Sure! Thanks. > > > |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in
news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > transistors. > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. > I looked up the Darlington transistor that is depicted on the Honda igniter,and it has an internal diode to shunt the flyback voltage around it,to protect the Darlington. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in
news:mcmurtri-579156.17160130052005@corp-radius.supernews.com: > In article <Xns966440B3E088tegger@207.14.113.17>, > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: > >> After a long passage of time and much dithering, I've finally >> finished two big updates. >> >> 1) New section on igniter function >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit.../howworks.html >> >> 2) Coil failure >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...s.html#badcoil >> >> Any critical advice is welcome. I'm not an electronics engineer, so >> there are surely mistakes somewhere. > > A little adjustment to the graphics: > > The darlington pair is the switch. Pin 3 would be the pulses from the > ECU or magnetic pickup. The tach connects either to the primary > winding (which makes radio interference) or to whatever drives the > transistors. > > And yes, the ignitor gets flyback voltage too. Some electronic > ignition systems still need the condenser because the flyback voltage > on the primary side otherwise rises extremely rapidly. It can rise > faster than some high voltage transistors can turn off and it can even > rise before the spark plug discharges the energy. > I looked up the Darlington transistor that is depicted on the Honda igniter,and it has an internal diode to shunt the flyback voltage around it,to protect the Darlington. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in
news:Xns96677D9AC821Bjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84: > I looked up the Darlington transistor that is depicted on the Honda > igniter,and it has an internal diode to shunt the flyback voltage around > it,to protect the Darlington. > Got a URL or a pic? I'd like to add that diode. The pics I found showed resistors, but no diodes. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in
news:Xns96677D9AC821Bjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84: > I looked up the Darlington transistor that is depicted on the Honda > igniter,and it has an internal diode to shunt the flyback voltage around > it,to protect the Darlington. > Got a URL or a pic? I'd like to add that diode. The pics I found showed resistors, but no diodes. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > > >>i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because >>i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with >>the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the >>ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets >>signal. >> >>but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... >>i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > > That would really be appreciated, thanks. > > probably not for a couple of weekends. as a footnote to the condenser replacement, as i said before, both the failed condenser & the condenserless crx distributors produced no r.f. interference on the car stereo. but, if i was on the [hands free] cell in the car, people always used to complain about static, even though i couldn't hear any myself. tonight, [shows how bad it used to be that i'd not bothered with the cell in the car for this long] i had to make a call & i'm told it was completely clear! so the condenser /does/ make a difference, even if the car stereo itself is sufficiently well filtered to not be susceptible. this totally confirms kevin's rise rate explanation. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
TeGGeR® wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > > >>i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because >>i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with >>the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the >>ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets >>signal. >> >>but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... >>i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > > That would really be appreciated, thanks. > > probably not for a couple of weekends. as a footnote to the condenser replacement, as i said before, both the failed condenser & the condenserless crx distributors produced no r.f. interference on the car stereo. but, if i was on the [hands free] cell in the car, people always used to complain about static, even though i couldn't hear any myself. tonight, [shows how bad it used to be that i'd not bothered with the cell in the car for this long] i had to make a call & i'm told it was completely clear! so the condenser /does/ make a difference, even if the car stereo itself is sufficiently well filtered to not be susceptible. this totally confirms kevin's rise rate explanation. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <K5OdndxBgIYYgwDfRVn-qg@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > TeGGeR® wrote: > > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > > news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > > > > > > >>i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because > >>i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with > >>the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the > >>ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets > >>signal. > >> > >>but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... > >>i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > > > > > > That would really be appreciated, thanks. > > > > > probably not for a couple of weekends. > > as a footnote to the condenser replacement, as i said before, both the > failed condenser & the condenserless crx distributors produced no r.f. > interference on the car stereo. but, if i was on the [hands free] cell > in the car, people always used to complain about static, even though i > couldn't hear any myself. tonight, [shows how bad it used to be that > i'd not bothered with the cell in the car for this long] i had to make a > call & i'm told it was completely clear! so the condenser /does/ make a > difference, even if the car stereo itself is sufficiently well filtered > to not be susceptible. this totally confirms kevin's rise rate explanation. Cellphones operate at frequencies hundreds of times higher than the rise rate of the primary coil. What probably happened is that the rise rate was faster than the transistor could turn off. In some cases you can induce crazy RF oscillations if a digital circuit is forced into an analog mode. That kind of oscillation roasts a transistor in a hurry too. The radio noise I mentioned is in cars like the older Toyotas where there was a long meandering wire between the primary coil and the ECU and tach. The 350V ignition pulses bled into everything. Aftermarket component stereo equipment needed braided shields over the interconnects. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
In article <K5OdndxBgIYYgwDfRVn-qg@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: > TeGGeR® wrote: > > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in > > news:qtOdnaMXMZGfdwbfRVn-3w@speakeasy.net: > > > > > > > >>i too was under the impression that the igniter handled dwell because > >>i know that happens with some other ignitions, but it seems that with > >>the honda, all that's taken care of by the ecu. #4 is the for the > >>ecu's output signal. the igniter just switches as soon as it gets > >>signal. > >> > >>but that said, i do have the gear to test that properly this time... > >>i have a spare working igniter - i'll do some more homework. > > > > > > > > That would really be appreciated, thanks. > > > > > probably not for a couple of weekends. > > as a footnote to the condenser replacement, as i said before, both the > failed condenser & the condenserless crx distributors produced no r.f. > interference on the car stereo. but, if i was on the [hands free] cell > in the car, people always used to complain about static, even though i > couldn't hear any myself. tonight, [shows how bad it used to be that > i'd not bothered with the cell in the car for this long] i had to make a > call & i'm told it was completely clear! so the condenser /does/ make a > difference, even if the car stereo itself is sufficiently well filtered > to not be susceptible. this totally confirms kevin's rise rate explanation. Cellphones operate at frequencies hundreds of times higher than the rise rate of the primary coil. What probably happened is that the rise rate was faster than the transistor could turn off. In some cases you can induce crazy RF oscillations if a digital circuit is forced into an analog mode. That kind of oscillation roasts a transistor in a hurry too. The radio noise I mentioned is in cars like the older Toyotas where there was a long meandering wire between the primary coil and the ECU and tach. The 350V ignition pulses bled into everything. Aftermarket component stereo equipment needed braided shields over the interconnects. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
"TeGGeR®" wrote: > > Got a URL or a pic? I'd like to add that diode. > > The pics I found showed resistors, but no diodes. I have looked long and hard at the photos of the ignitor. The darlington device is definitely from STM (http:/www.stm.com). The part number is hard to decipher, but I am quite certain the first line of the part number is BUxy41. I can't for the life of me see if "x" is actually a character or just picture noise. The "y" looks like an "8" or a "9". The second line of the part number almost certainly is "ZT". This is consistent with "BU941ZT", which is an actual STM part number with a package type like the one in the ignitor photo. The description is "HIGH VOLTAGE IGNITION COIL DRIVER NPN POWER TRANSISTOR". See http://www.st.com/stonline/books/ascii/docs/5288.htm for details. The data sheet is at http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5288.pdf. The data sheet shows the diode between emitter and collector. The IC in the photo looks like it has part number U2226B, and a good guess is that the TFK in the first line stand for Telefunken, a German semiconductor manufacturer later renamed TEMIC and eventually bought by Vishay. I have not found any data sheet for the U2226B, but I believe it is an opto-coupler. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
"TeGGeR®" wrote: > > Got a URL or a pic? I'd like to add that diode. > > The pics I found showed resistors, but no diodes. I have looked long and hard at the photos of the ignitor. The darlington device is definitely from STM (http:/www.stm.com). The part number is hard to decipher, but I am quite certain the first line of the part number is BUxy41. I can't for the life of me see if "x" is actually a character or just picture noise. The "y" looks like an "8" or a "9". The second line of the part number almost certainly is "ZT". This is consistent with "BU941ZT", which is an actual STM part number with a package type like the one in the ignitor photo. The description is "HIGH VOLTAGE IGNITION COIL DRIVER NPN POWER TRANSISTOR". See http://www.st.com/stonline/books/ascii/docs/5288.htm for details. The data sheet is at http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5288.pdf. The data sheet shows the diode between emitter and collector. The IC in the photo looks like it has part number U2226B, and a good guess is that the TFK in the first line stand for Telefunken, a German semiconductor manufacturer later renamed TEMIC and eventually bought by Vishay. I have not found any data sheet for the U2226B, but I believe it is an opto-coupler. |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Here are oscilloscope traces of an ignition coil with and without a
capacitor: http://www.pixelmemory.us/Photos/Nerd/flyback/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Here are oscilloscope traces of an ignition coil with and without a
capacitor: http://www.pixelmemory.us/Photos/Nerd/flyback/ |
Re: Ignition updates to the Unofficial FAQ
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> Here are oscilloscope traces of an ignition coil with and without a > capacitor: > > http://www.pixelmemory.us/Photos/Nerd/flyback/ awesome! that one without capacitor is /real/ ugly... |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands