Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:quUMg.17456$1f6.9243@newssvr27.news.prodigy.n et...
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:41:34 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Vehicles with lower fuel economy are less sensitive to differences,
>>> because the losses are already pretty high. In the Toyota Prius fora
>>> people are shocked to find that running the heater can decrease the
>>> in-town fuel economy 10 mpg... the finer the edge the more quickly
>>> it dulls.
>>
>> Running the heater? Isn't this just waste heat anyway?
>
> I guess it has to do with the amount of juice needed to run the
> fan.......????
>
The effect on the amount of time the engine runs can be pretty radical. The
car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals, so the first winter
we had it I decided to see just how much the heater would drag it down. I
opened the windows and turned the heater on full while driving in town. The
previous five minute bars had been something like 40 or 45, while with the
heater on full it dropped to 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and
five adults in the car it never went below 30 in real life.

Mike

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AIVMg.5$7C7.2@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>> The net effect will be determined by environmental conditions and
>> choice. My preferences are usually determined by speed of travel and
>> temperature/humidity conditions. <90° and lower humidity while
>> driving on back roads at <50 mph would be open windows for me for
>> the most part (general rule of thumb). >90° would most likely be AC
>> all the time. Highway speeds would either be AC or vent, depending on the
>> preferred
>> comfort level at that specific time. I am not very concerned about
>> the differences in fuel economy, only in comfort level (although it
>> is always nice to know.....).
>>
>
> That's undoubtedly the bottom line. I used to live in Phoenix, and the
> windows don't open wide enough to make 117 F comfortable!
>
> Mike

Amen.

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AIVMg.5$7C7.2@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>> The net effect will be determined by environmental conditions and
>> choice. My preferences are usually determined by speed of travel and
>> temperature/humidity conditions. <90° and lower humidity while
>> driving on back roads at <50 mph would be open windows for me for
>> the most part (general rule of thumb). >90° would most likely be AC
>> all the time. Highway speeds would either be AC or vent, depending on the
>> preferred
>> comfort level at that specific time. I am not very concerned about
>> the differences in fuel economy, only in comfort level (although it
>> is always nice to know.....).
>>
>
> That's undoubtedly the bottom line. I used to live in Phoenix, and the
> windows don't open wide enough to make 117 F comfortable!
>
> Mike

Amen.

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AIVMg.5$7C7.2@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>> The net effect will be determined by environmental conditions and
>> choice. My preferences are usually determined by speed of travel and
>> temperature/humidity conditions. <90° and lower humidity while
>> driving on back roads at <50 mph would be open windows for me for
>> the most part (general rule of thumb). >90° would most likely be AC
>> all the time. Highway speeds would either be AC or vent, depending on the
>> preferred
>> comfort level at that specific time. I am not very concerned about
>> the differences in fuel economy, only in comfort level (although it
>> is always nice to know.....).
>>
>
> That's undoubtedly the bottom line. I used to live in Phoenix, and the
> windows don't open wide enough to make 117 F comfortable!
>
> Mike

Amen.

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:quUMg.17456$1f6.9243@newssvr27.news.prodigy.n et...
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:41:34 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
>>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vehicles with lower fuel economy are less sensitive to differences,
>>>> because the losses are already pretty high. In the Toyota Prius
>>>> fora people are shocked to find that running the heater can
>>>> decrease the in-town fuel economy 10 mpg... the finer the edge the
>>>> more quickly it dulls.
>>>
>>> Running the heater? Isn't this just waste heat anyway?
>>
>> I guess it has to do with the amount of juice needed to run the
>> fan.......????
>>
> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs can be pretty
> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> never went below 30 in real life.
> Mike

Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:quUMg.17456$1f6.9243@newssvr27.news.prodigy.n et...
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:41:34 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
>>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vehicles with lower fuel economy are less sensitive to differences,
>>>> because the losses are already pretty high. In the Toyota Prius
>>>> fora people are shocked to find that running the heater can
>>>> decrease the in-town fuel economy 10 mpg... the finer the edge the
>>>> more quickly it dulls.
>>>
>>> Running the heater? Isn't this just waste heat anyway?
>>
>> I guess it has to do with the amount of juice needed to run the
>> fan.......????
>>
> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs can be pretty
> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> never went below 30 in real life.
> Mike

Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:quUMg.17456$1f6.9243@newssvr27.news.prodigy.n et...
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:41:34 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
>>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vehicles with lower fuel economy are less sensitive to differences,
>>>> because the losses are already pretty high. In the Toyota Prius
>>>> fora people are shocked to find that running the heater can
>>>> decrease the in-town fuel economy 10 mpg... the finer the edge the
>>>> more quickly it dulls.
>>>
>>> Running the heater? Isn't this just waste heat anyway?
>>
>> I guess it has to do with the amount of juice needed to run the
>> fan.......????
>>
> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs can be pretty
> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> never went below 30 in real life.
> Mike

Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
>> can be pretty
>> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
>> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
>> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
>> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
>> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
>> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
>> never went below 30 in real life.
>> Mike
>
> Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
>
Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes a lot of
energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always an excess of heat.

Mike

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
>> can be pretty
>> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
>> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
>> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
>> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
>> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
>> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
>> never went below 30 in real life.
>> Mike
>
> Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
>
Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes a lot of
energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always an excess of heat.

Mike

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
>> can be pretty
>> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
>> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
>> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
>> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
>> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
>> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
>> never went below 30 in real life.
>> Mike
>
> Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
>
Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes a lot of
energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always an excess of heat.

Mike

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:1oqdncE09JHTC5nYnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > Michael Pardee wrote:
> >> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
> >> can be pretty
> >> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> >> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> >> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> >> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> >> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> >> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> >> never went below 30 in real life.
> >> Mike
> >
> > Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
> >
> Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
> increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
> electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes
> a lot of energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always
> an excess of heat.
>
The old air-cooled Bugs didn't have an excess of heat either, so one option
was a gasoline fueled cab heater. That doesn't sound real economical, but
I'll bet it's more economical than having to fire up the engine to get heat.
It doesn't sound real safe either, but if you maintained it it wasn't too
bad.

Earle

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:1oqdncE09JHTC5nYnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > Michael Pardee wrote:
> >> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
> >> can be pretty
> >> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> >> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> >> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> >> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> >> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> >> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> >> never went below 30 in real life.
> >> Mike
> >
> > Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
> >
> Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
> increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
> electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes
> a lot of energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always
> an excess of heat.
>
The old air-cooled Bugs didn't have an excess of heat either, so one option
was a gasoline fueled cab heater. That doesn't sound real economical, but
I'll bet it's more economical than having to fire up the engine to get heat.
It doesn't sound real safe either, but if you maintained it it wasn't too
bad.

Earle

Re: Influence of window opening vs. A/C use on fuel economy
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:1oqdncE09JHTC5nYnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MkZMg.34$TV3.25@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > Michael Pardee wrote:
> >> The effect on the amount of time the engine runs [in the Toyota Prius]
> >> can be pretty
> >> radical. The car has a display for the mpg over 5 minute intervals,
> >> so the first winter we had it I decided to see just how much the
> >> heater would drag it down. I opened the windows and turned the heater
> >> on full while driving in town. The previous five minute bars had been
> >> something like 40 or 45, while with the heater on full it dropped to
> >> 25! Even at 75 mph with the A/C on full and five adults in the car it
> >> never went below 30 in real life.
> >> Mike
> >
> > Amazing. That's not something they advertise.......
> >
> Nope - and I wouldn't if I were them, either. I think it will be
> increasingly common as we see more efficient cars, and especially if
> electric cars make inroads into everyday use. We all know it takes
> a lot of energy to make heat but in cars we assume there's always
> an excess of heat.
>
The old air-cooled Bugs didn't have an excess of heat either, so one option
was a gasoline fueled cab heater. That doesn't sound real economical, but
I'll bet it's more economical than having to fire up the engine to get heat.
It doesn't sound real safe either, but if you maintained it it wasn't too
bad.

Earle