ma_twain

Ricardo wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:51:44 GMT, Omphalos <omphalos@xmsg.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>There is a lot of talk about BMW, VW and American sedans. Has
>>anyone ever considered the Nissan Maxima or the Toyota Camry? These
>>two sedans fully loaded and optioned down are cheaper, faster, more
>>reliable, better handling
>>
>
> Really? I didn't think Camrys were too up on the handling and
> stability side of the equation. They must have changed in recent
> times.

Correct - Toyota now has the SE model Camrys. The Accord and Maxima
already had somewhat decent handling.


>
>
>>and more comfortable and practical than your
>>typical VW, BMW,
>>
>
> Hard to beat a Bimmer for space and comfort, when you've been
> accustomed to cramped U.S. and Japanese cars all your life. Although
> Volvos are pretty good too, 'cos I don't even need the driver's seat
> all the way back on a V40, which is very rare.


The may be for the older cars. The 1980s Volvos have more usable space
on the inside than the current models. I test drove a 2002 BMW 3 series
wagon, a station wagon, not a two seater sports coupe, and my 8 year son
barely fit in the back seat due to lack of legroom.


>
>
>>You could buy a fully loaded Camry and have a pile of money left over
>>to spend.
>>
>
> Hmmm, never really thought much about Camrys; if I had the money a
> Lexus LS430 might be worth considering if I was going down the Camry
> route, since that's pretty much just a luxed up and improved Camry,
> right?
>
>
>>You would also have a lot more room than your typical VW or
>>BMW. The German sedans just do not have any room in them for larger
>>people.
>>
>
> I'm only 6'1 to 6'2 or so, but I disagree. When I tried out 3 series
> Bimmers for size, I fitted in them quite well. Now I'll grant you,
> I'm not THAT tall, and there are several posters in r.a.d alone who
> dwarf me right here and now, but I find most yank- and japmobiles to
> be relatively cramped, though not normally unbearably so.
>
>
>>Fitting 4 or 5 people in them would be a stretch of the
>>imagination.
>>
>
> Istr there's enough room in the back seat of a 5 series Bimmer, but
> maybe I was imagining things.
>
>

Philip®

The problem with Japanese cars is similar to Japanese food. Park it and
an hour later, you feel like driving it again.
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to be
wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)


"noway" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:xUANa.409461$3n5.56392@news2.central.***.net. ..
> The only way to buy a car is to test drive. Its a matter of
preference. See
> which one sits more comfortable, drives the way you want it to, and
has the
> features you can't live without. Might want to test a Hyundai also,
you'd be
> surprised how they drive.
>
> "Omphalos" <omphalos@xmsg.com> wrote in message
> news:AgiNa.17418$ic1.317121@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > There is a lot of talk about BMW, VW and American sedans. Has
> > anyone ever considered the Nissan Maxima or the Toyota Camry? These
> > two sedans fully loaded and optioned down are cheaper, faster, more
> > reliable, better handling and more comfortable and practical than
your
> > typical VW, BMW, or Brand X American sedan.
> >
> > You could buy a fully loaded Camry and have a pile of money left
over
> > to spend. You would also have a lot more room than your typical VW
or
> > BMW. The German sedans just do not have any room in them for larger
> > people. Fitting 4 or 5 people in them would be a stretch of the
> > imagination.
> >
> > --
> > __________
> > ==\ /================================
> > ===\ /==You know how dumb the average==
> > ====\ /===guy is? Well half of everyone==
> > =====\ /======is even dumber than that=====
> > ======\/====================================
> >
> > http://31337.pl
>
>
>

Jimmy G

I OWN a Maxima. I bought it for the exact reasons that you mentioned. I'l
GLADLY go into additional debt just to get rid of the thing.

Customer support is DISMAL. Nissan simply doesn't care about its owners.

Our '03 225i handles IMMEASURABLY better.

The New '04 MAxima interior looks as if it were designed by Mattell. CHEAP
PLASTIC.

You simply can't compare teh actual driving experience of these cars.

Ricardo

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:51:34 +0100, John Burns
<john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> The Bimmers I was referring to were an '84 318i, an '84 533i(?) and
>> an '81 733i. Plenty of room in all three, at least up front.
>
>Agreed, but I'm 10.5 stone and 5'6" :-)

Well, we're about the same weight, that could explain it. (And
"stones" and "ounces" are the most illogical units around, because
they utilize bases 14 and 16 respectively. Feet and inches make more
sense because they are dozenally based. But 12lbs in a st and 12oz
in a lb would make far more sense. But then, what was ever logical
about much of the imperial system?)

>It's really noticeable that the current sports seats are too wide, the
>sports seats on the E30 and 635 were perfect for me.

Ahh, the 6 series. Yes, I'd forgotten about those. Never been in one
mind, as far as I can remember, but I'd be kinda surprised if they
didn't offer sufficient room up front.

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada
e-mail: remove spamfreezone to reply
for liability purposes: I *always* obey the law.
'89 grand am le, garaged; '91 mx6 gt

Nathan Nagel

Ricardo wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:51:34 +0100, John Burns
> <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> The Bimmers I was referring to were an '84 318i, an '84 533i(?) and
> >> an '81 733i. Plenty of room in all three, at least up front.
> >
> >Agreed, but I'm 10.5 stone and 5'6" :-)
>
> Well, we're about the same weight, that could explain it. (And
> "stones" and "ounces" are the most illogical units around, because
> they utilize bases 14 and 16 respectively. Feet and inches make more
> sense because they are dozenally based. But 12lbs in a st and 12oz
> in a lb would make far more sense. But then, what was ever logical
> about much of the imperial system?)
>
> >It's really noticeable that the current sports seats are too wide, the
> >sports seats on the E30 and 635 were perfect for me.
>
> Ahh, the 6 series. Yes, I'd forgotten about those. Never been in one
> mind, as far as I can remember, but I'd be kinda surprised if they
> didn't offer sufficient room up front.
>

AFAIR they were very similar to the E28s...

nate

Ricardo

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:01:56 +1000, Jim...
<snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh.rot13> wrote:

>you're kidding.
>the imperial system is dead and what you're waffling about is the
>reason why.
>it's so much simpler just to think ISO about everything.

I concur, but John referred to "stones" (arch.: 1st=14lb), hence my
comment on the illogical nature of many imperial measurements, with
the exception of those such as ft and in which are dozenally
founded. A dozenal metric system based on ft and in would make a lot
of sense, actually, but that would require transition to a dozenal
numbering system:

www.dozens.org
www.dsgb.orbix.co.uk

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada
e-mail: remove spamfreezone to reply

Jim...

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 23:55:31 GMT,
sovietjamaicanguy@spamfreezone.yahoo.ca (Ricardo) wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:01:56 +1000, Jim...
><snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh.rot13> wrote:
>
>>you're kidding.
>>the imperial system is dead and what you're waffling about is the
>>reason why.
>>it's so much simpler just to think ISO about everything.
>
>I concur, but John referred to "stones" (arch.: 1st=14lb), hence my
>comment on the illogical nature of many imperial measurements, with
>the exception of those such as ft and in which are dozenally
>founded. A dozenal metric system based on ft and in would make a lot
>of sense, actually, but that would require transition to a dozenal
>numbering system:
>
>www.dozens.org
>www.dsgb.orbix.co.uk

it would make far more sense in this computer age the use a base 16
instead of 10 but it isn't going to happen.

apply rot13 to
snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh
will find me.

Ricardo

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:02:31 +1000, Jim...
<snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh.rot13> wrote:

>it would make far more sense in this computer age the use a base 16
>instead of 10 but it isn't going to happen.

Base 16 is easier for computers (effectively a binary derivative),
but not necessarily for people. 12 reflects reality very nicely,
although 10 isn't as terrible a choice as the dozenal advocates
would have you believe. Imo 8, 10 and 12 are practical choices for
everyday use and it so happens that we use base 10, mainly as a
result of the possession of ten manual appendages.

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada
e-mail: remove spamfreezone to reply

Ricardo

On 5 Jul 2003 15:08:44 -0700, eastwardbound2003@yahoo.com (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

>Agreed, Jap cars are just a BIG waste.
>
>Not just to the owners who end up with inferior products, but to
>America that is suffering each and every time someone buys a product
>that is non-supporting to the American economy.

Uhh, aren't some of those Jap cars made in the U.S.?

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada
e-mail: remove spamfreezone to reply
for liability purposes: I *always* obey the law.
'89 grand am le, garaged; '91 mx6 gt

Philip®

Eastward Bound wrote:
> Agreed, Jap cars are just a BIG waste.
>
> Not just to the owners who end up with inferior products, but to
> America that is suffering each and every time someone buys a product
> that is non-supporting to the American economy.

Regarding the American Toyotas....specifically the models whose engines
(V8, V6's, and I4's), transmissions (automatics), bodies (stampings done
on the assembly line premises), and plastics (bumpers, dashboards,
molded parts) are manufactured from American raw materials, assembled by
UAW workers, and sold in both the US and Canada? Are you trashing
UAW workers? Perhaps you could explain the tax structure in detail from
top to bottom? Inferior products? Toyota is Number 3 auto maker in the
world.

Get your head out of your ****.

--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to be
wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)

tigressnospam@gtf.org

Eastward Bound <eastwardbound2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Agreed, Jap cars are just a BIG waste.
>
> Not just to the owners who end up with inferior products, but to
> America that is suffering each and every time someone buys a product
> that is non-supporting to the American economy.

Tell that to the people in American making those cars.

Tell that to the people who lost their jobs to Mexico or elsewhre that
worked for an American manufacturer.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' tigressnospam@gtf.org
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Liam Devlin

Ricardo wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:02:31 +1000, Jim...
> <snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh.rot13> wrote:
>
>>it would make far more sense in this computer age the use a base 16
>>instead of 10 but it isn't going to happen.
>
> Base 16 is easier for computers (effectively a binary derivative),
> but not necessarily for people. 12 reflects reality very nicely,
> although 10 isn't as terrible a choice as the dozenal advocates
> would have you believe. Imo 8, 10 and 12 are practical choices for
> everyday use and it so happens that we use base 10, mainly as a
> result of the possession of ten manual appendages.

Plus the ISO/metric system is decimal based, which is really the easiest
one to understand & manipulate using Arabic numerals.

If you were to tell the average person that you had $F (US) and spent $A
(US) to see a movie and had $5 US remaining, they'd think you were daft.

Liam Devlin

Eastward Bound wrote:
> "Jimmy G" <jimmyg50@***.net> wrote in message news:<MLENa.119534$hd6.27616@fed1read05>...
>
>>I OWN a Maxima. I bought it for the exact reasons that you mentioned. I'l
>>GLADLY go into additional debt just to get rid of the thing.
>>
>>Customer support is DISMAL. Nissan simply doesn't care about its owners.
>>
>>Our '03 225i handles IMMEASURABLY better.
>>
>>The New '04 MAxima interior looks as if it were designed by Mattell. CHEAP
>>PLASTIC.
>>
>>You simply can't compare teh actual driving experience of these cars.
>
> Agreed, Jap cars are just a BIG waste.
>
> Not just to the owners who end up with inferior products, but to
> America that is suffering each and every time someone buys a product
> that is non-supporting to the American economy.

Poor America, God forbid that their companies should be expected to make
better products at competitive prices!

Marc

sovietjamaicanguy@spamfreezone.yahoo.ca (Ricardo) wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:51:44 GMT, Omphalos <omphalos@xmsg.com>
>wrote:
>
>>There is a lot of talk about BMW, VW and American sedans. Has
>>anyone ever considered the Nissan Maxima or the Toyota Camry? These
>>two sedans fully loaded and optioned down are cheaper, faster, more
>>reliable, better handling
>
>Really? I didn't think Camrys were too up on the handling and
>stability side of the equation. They must have changed in recent
>times.

They aren't that good. The Maxima SE is still pretty soft (I haven't
driven the new 3.5, but have driven previous ones), but it is better than
most. If you are used to RWD and despise FWD, many of the options
available will not feel right because of the drivetrain.

>>and more comfortable and practical than your
>>typical VW, BMW,
>
>Hard to beat a Bimmer for space and comfort, when you've been
>accustomed to cramped U.S. and Japanese cars all your life.

Are you serious? I have a large friend that drives an Impala SS and can
ride just fine in my Miata, '87 200SX, and some other "small" Japanese
cars. He was looking for a new car and couldn't even fit behind the wheel
of a 5-series, let alone drive it.

The 3-series is a compact car, smaller than a Mazda Protege or Nissan
Sentra (at least for the years the last time I checked, I don't know if it
has changed, and if it has they should all still be about the same size).
$30k for a 3-series of $15k for a Protege for the same size.

The Maxima is larger than the 5-series in every stat I could find and costs
more than $20,000 less. It is much larger than the 3-series and still
costs less.

Marc
For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"

Philip®

Me wrote:
> In article <AgiNa.17418$ic1.317121@twister.tampabay.rr.com> ,
> Omphalos <omphalos@xmsg.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a lot of talk about BMW, VW and American sedans. Has
>> anyone ever considered the Nissan Maxima or the Toyota Camry?
>
> Of course. I know quite a few people who own Camry's. One married
> couple I know has his and her's Camrys.

Gosh... I hope they aren't exchanging fluids! ;^)
--

Philip

"If a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending
the same way, make the design visible to the people . tis not to be
wondered that they should then rouse themselves."
- John Locke (1632-1704)