Jason

I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
economobiles).
These are the companies that make the economobiles:
Honda Fit Sport
Hyundai Accent GLS
Kia Rio5 SX
Nissan Versa 1.8L
Suzuki Reno
Toyota Yaris S

The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
Europe as the Jazz.

One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
Jason

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Michael Pardee

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
> I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> economobiles).
> These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> Honda Fit Sport
> Hyundai Accent GLS
> Kia Rio5 SX
> Nissan Versa 1.8L
> Suzuki Reno
> Toyota Yaris S
>
> The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> Europe as the Jazz.
>
> One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> Jason
>
>
I think Car and Driver wants to sell magazines.

I don't know the shape of things to come in the consumer automotive market,
but I doubt anything will cause a huge shift of buyers from any major brand
to another. It seems to me most people have already made up their minds
which brands of car they would buy and which they will not.

I do recall that in the mid-70's one of the magazines (Road and Track, IIRC)
track tested various cars and the Ford Pinto beat the Porsche 911's time
through the slalom! Outraged readers wanted to know how the obvious error
got through, so the editors explained: understeering cars have an edge over
oversteering cars in the slalom, allowing the Pinto (shudder!) to beat the
Porsche. I just don't think that is why more Pintos were sold than were 911s
each year.

Mike

Michael Pardee

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
> I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> economobiles).
> These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> Honda Fit Sport
> Hyundai Accent GLS
> Kia Rio5 SX
> Nissan Versa 1.8L
> Suzuki Reno
> Toyota Yaris S
>
> The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> Europe as the Jazz.
>
> One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> Jason
>
>
I think Car and Driver wants to sell magazines.

I don't know the shape of things to come in the consumer automotive market,
but I doubt anything will cause a huge shift of buyers from any major brand
to another. It seems to me most people have already made up their minds
which brands of car they would buy and which they will not.

I do recall that in the mid-70's one of the magazines (Road and Track, IIRC)
track tested various cars and the Ford Pinto beat the Porsche 911's time
through the slalom! Outraged readers wanted to know how the obvious error
got through, so the editors explained: understeering cars have an edge over
oversteering cars in the slalom, allowing the Pinto (shudder!) to beat the
Porsche. I just don't think that is why more Pintos were sold than were 911s
each year.

Mike

Gordon McGrew

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 13:53:33 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
>Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
>Corvette Z06."

Actually it was 6 mph faster than the next fastest car in the
comparison and faster than the Corvette but we don't know by how much.
Still a very impressive showing.

As for being the kiss of death for GM and Ford, Gm and Ford never made
any money off economy cars anyway. The kiss of death for GM and Ford
is $3 gas which is killing their monster SUV sales.

Gordon McGrew

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 13:53:33 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
>Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
>Corvette Z06."

Actually it was 6 mph faster than the next fastest car in the
comparison and faster than the Corvette but we don't know by how much.
Still a very impressive showing.

As for being the kiss of death for GM and Ford, Gm and Ford never made
any money off economy cars anyway. The kiss of death for GM and Ford
is $3 gas which is killing their monster SUV sales.

tww

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
> I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> economobiles).
> These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> Honda Fit Sport
> Hyundai Accent GLS
> Kia Rio5 SX
> Nissan Versa 1.8L
> Suzuki Reno
> Toyota Yaris S
>
> The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> Europe as the Jazz.
>
> One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> Jason
>
Perhaps more telling was the Consumer Reports 2006 cars edition where CRs
data indicates that an 8 yr old Toyota/Honda has the same number of problems
as does a 3 year old Ford or GM product -- and a 2 yr old VW.


> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

tww

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
>
> I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> economobiles).
> These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> Honda Fit Sport
> Hyundai Accent GLS
> Kia Rio5 SX
> Nissan Versa 1.8L
> Suzuki Reno
> Toyota Yaris S
>
> The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> Europe as the Jazz.
>
> One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> Jason
>
Perhaps more telling was the Consumer Reports 2006 cars edition where CRs
data indicates that an 8 yr old Toyota/Honda has the same number of problems
as does a 3 year old Ford or GM product -- and a 2 yr old VW.


> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

Grumpy AuContraire

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
> >
> > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> > made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> > economobiles).
> > These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> > Honda Fit Sport
> > Hyundai Accent GLS
> > Kia Rio5 SX
> > Nissan Versa 1.8L
> > Suzuki Reno
> > Toyota Yaris S
> >
> > The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> > Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> > Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> > Europe as the Jazz.
> >
> > One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> > their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> > and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> > about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> > new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> > Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> > that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> > Jason
> >
> >
> I think Car and Driver wants to sell magazines.
>
> I don't know the shape of things to come in the consumer automotive market,
> but I doubt anything will cause a huge shift of buyers from any major brand
> to another. It seems to me most people have already made up their minds
> which brands of car they would buy and which they will not.
>
> I do recall that in the mid-70's one of the magazines (Road and Track, IIRC)
> track tested various cars and the Ford Pinto beat the Porsche 911's time
> through the slalom! Outraged readers wanted to know how the obvious error
> got through, so the editors explained: understeering cars have an edge over
> oversteering cars in the slalom, allowing the Pinto (shudder!) to beat the
> Porsche. I just don't think that is why more Pintos were sold than were 911s
> each year.
>
> Mike



A major factor is brand loyalty regardless of that particular brand's
performance over the years. There are simply folks that will NEVER buy
a foreign car and then those on the other side of the fence that will
never buy domestic tin.

As far as "nails in the coffin" for any domestic manufacturer, one must
consider the costs (high labor), government mandates (far too intrusive)
and the public's response to sales campaigns.

I for one am not caught up in the "gotta get a new car" syndrome. One
of my daily drivers is over fifty years old while the other is almost
twenty-five years of age and that is way modern 'nuff for this ol' fossil...

JT

Grumpy AuContraire

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jason-0904061353340001@66-52-22-17.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
> >
> > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The
> > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign
> > made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka
> > economobiles).
> > These are the companies that make the economobiles:
> > Honda Fit Sport
> > Hyundai Accent GLS
> > Kia Rio5 SX
> > Nissan Versa 1.8L
> > Suzuki Reno
> > Toyota Yaris S
> >
> > The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit
> > Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a
> > Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in
> > Europe as the Jazz.
> >
> > One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of
> > their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda
> > and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of
> > about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced
> > new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota
> > Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree
> > that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford?
> > Jason
> >
> >
> I think Car and Driver wants to sell magazines.
>
> I don't know the shape of things to come in the consumer automotive market,
> but I doubt anything will cause a huge shift of buyers from any major brand
> to another. It seems to me most people have already made up their minds
> which brands of car they would buy and which they will not.
>
> I do recall that in the mid-70's one of the magazines (Road and Track, IIRC)
> track tested various cars and the Ford Pinto beat the Porsche 911's time
> through the slalom! Outraged readers wanted to know how the obvious error
> got through, so the editors explained: understeering cars have an edge over
> oversteering cars in the slalom, allowing the Pinto (shudder!) to beat the
> Porsche. I just don't think that is why more Pintos were sold than were 911s
> each year.
>
> Mike



A major factor is brand loyalty regardless of that particular brand's
performance over the years. There are simply folks that will NEVER buy
a foreign car and then those on the other side of the fence that will
never buy domestic tin.

As far as "nails in the coffin" for any domestic manufacturer, one must
consider the costs (high labor), government mandates (far too intrusive)
and the public's response to sales campaigns.

I for one am not caught up in the "gotta get a new car" syndrome. One
of my daily drivers is over fifty years old while the other is almost
twenty-five years of age and that is way modern 'nuff for this ol' fossil...

JT

Art

The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That
would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for
repairs.

Art

The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That
would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for
repairs.

John Horner

Art wrote:
> The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That
> would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for
> repairs.
>
>

I have been saying the GM should put up or shut up about it's much
bragged about "quality improvements" with a much better warranty for a
long time now. Reasonable people see the logic, Mike Hunter does not .

John

John Horner

Art wrote:
> The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That
> would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for
> repairs.
>
>

I have been saying the GM should put up or shut up about it's much
bragged about "quality improvements" with a much better warranty for a
long time now. Reasonable people see the logic, Mike Hunter does not .

John

twothousandtwoto2007@yahoo.com

I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy
the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing
with the Suzuki Reno vs the Suzuki Forenza. The Forenza is the better
choice.

America isn't built like prehistoric Europe where there is barely
enough room for foot traffic. People will buy the larger car for the
same price or for a slightly higher price than the smaller version.

It would appear that for every Toyota Echo that was sold there were 10
more Corollas that were sold. Can you see the pattern?
Air-

twothousandtwoto2007@yahoo.com

I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy
the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing
with the Suzuki Reno vs the Suzuki Forenza. The Forenza is the better
choice.

America isn't built like prehistoric Europe where there is barely
enough room for foot traffic. People will buy the larger car for the
same price or for a slightly higher price than the smaller version.

It would appear that for every Toyota Echo that was sold there were 10
more Corollas that were sold. Can you see the pattern?
Air-