Michael Pardee

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:f7iRh.7565$iw5.2250@trndny06...
>
> It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.
>
> The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
> and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I guess
> it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by expanding or
> 'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they collect gunk, as
> do the holes providing the oil.
>
Sounds like the same operation as a hydraulic lifter, but located on the
other end of the rocker arm. Lifters deflate in pretty much the same way,
but I don't know if it is usually that they stick "down" or if they leak too
badly to work.

Your plan to tackle it when more convenient sounds good to me. At least a
collapsed HLA (almost wrote "lifter") won't strand you anywhere.

Mike

I. Care

In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> > news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
> >
> >
> >>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
> >>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
> >>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
> > Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
> > home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
> > attractive.
> >
> > I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> > bearings and such though.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
>
> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
> lubricant too..
>
> JT
>
Marvel Mystery Oil

Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
City CHICAGO
State IL
Country US
Zip Code 60638
Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
Information Phone 708-563-3766

Ingredient # 01
Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
CAS Number 95501
Percent 0
Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS Number 8052413
Percent 0
Ingredient # 03
Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
CAS Number 64742525
Percent 0

I got the above info from here:

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:49:16 -0700, I.Care wrote:

> In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>>
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> > news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>> >
>> >
>> >>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> >>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> >>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>> > return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If
>> > you are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten
>> > temperatures it is mighty attractive.
>> >
>> > I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>> > bearings and such though.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
>> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
>> lubricant too..
>>
>> JT
>>
> Marvel Mystery Oil
>
> Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
> Street 5655 W 73RD STREET City
> CHICAGO State
> IL Country US Zip Code
> 60638 Emergency Phone
> 708-563-3766 Information Phone 708-563-3766
>
> Ingredient # 01 Ingredient Name
> BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO- CAS Number
> 95501 Percent 0 Ingredient #
> 02 Ingredient Name MINERAL
> SPIRITS CAS Number 8052413 Percent
> 0 Ingredient # 03
> Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS CAS
> Number 64742525 Percent
> 0
>
> I got the above info from here:
>
> http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm


Interesting...BENZENE?!?!?!

jim beam

I. Care wrote:
> In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
>>> Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
>>> home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
>>> attractive.
>>>
>>> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>> bearings and such though.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
>> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
>> lubricant too..
>>
>> JT
>>
> Marvel Mystery Oil
>
> Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
> Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
> City CHICAGO
> State IL
> Country US
> Zip Code 60638
> Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
> Information Phone 708-563-3766
>
> Ingredient # 01
> Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
> CAS Number 95501
> Percent 0
> Ingredient # 02
> Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
> CAS Number 8052413
> Percent 0
> Ingredient # 03
> Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
> CAS Number 64742525
> Percent 0
>
> I got the above info from here:
>
> http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm

good on you! i have a really strong opinion on anything related to oil
sales and the total lack of labeling thereof. it's all to deceive the
consumer. manufacturers all know what their competition is using - they
have labs. consumers don't, and this information vacuum is the void
into which garbage is sold. msds info like you've dug up /is/
available, but it's not exactly front and center, and even then, there's
get-outs for "proprietary" contents. the whole machine is a scam.

i say:
1. label all products, just like food and shampoo.

and while we're at it:
2. make publication of the calorie content of gasoline mandatory.
alcohol content is mandatory on beverages, calorie content is published
for natural gas. same principles should apply to gasoline.

jim beam

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>>
>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>
>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>> Since
>>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>
>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>
>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>> Synthetic
>>> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>> clacking was
>>> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>
>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it
>>> is or
>>> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>>> more
>>> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>> the clacking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time
>> I had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't
>> without risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now
>> they're pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more
>> were collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car
>> for other reasons a few months later.
>>
>> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have
>> been good enough for a few months :-(
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet and
> replace 'em all.
>
> Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays since
> modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of direct
> contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions).

really? where's you get that information from?

> So far, diesel
> rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent wear on direct
> contact engine components.

why diesel lubes? what's the composition difference?

>
> Roller lifters available for vintage cars including Honda anyone?
>
> JT
>
> (Who's manual calls for motor oil for the tranny which is also a no-no
> these days...)

Grumpy AuContraire

jim beam wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>>>
>>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter,
>>>> occasionally
>>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>>> Since
>>>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>>>> lifters
>>>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than
>>>> usual,
>>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>>
>>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>>> Synthetic
>>>> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>>> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>>> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>>> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>>> clacking was
>>>> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>>
>>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it
>>>> is or
>>>> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to
>>>> answer more
>>>> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>>> the clacking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time
>>> I had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't
>>> without risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and
>>> now they're pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or
>>> more were collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of
>>> the car for other reasons a few months later.
>>>
>>> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would
>>> have been good enough for a few months :-(
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet
>> and replace 'em all.
>>
>> Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays
>> since modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of
>> direct contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions).
>
>
> really? where's you get that information from?
>
>> So far, diesel rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent
>> wear on direct contact engine components.
>
>
> why diesel lubes? what's the composition difference?
>


We went through this a few months ago. I'm much too lazy to do it again.

JT

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:30:40 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:f7iRh.7565$iw5.2250@trndny06...
>>
>> It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.
>>
>> The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
>> and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I
>> guess it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by
>> expanding or 'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they
>> collect gunk, as do the holes providing the oil.
>>
> Sounds like the same operation as a hydraulic lifter, but located on the
> other end of the rocker arm. Lifters deflate in pretty much the same way,
> but I don't know if it is usually that they stick "down" or if they leak
> too badly to work.
>
> Your plan to tackle it when more convenient sounds good to me. At least a
> collapsed HLA (almost wrote "lifter") won't strand you anywhere.
>
> Mike


Well, once it fianally STOPS snowing I'll pull of the valve cover and have
a look. I have a Supra I use in the summer, the Mazda's a winter beater.
When the Supra goes on the road I plan on giving the Mazda a better going
over than I did in December when I bought it. But the forecast is for more
snow this week.

And the funny thing is, I drove it about 20 miles yesterday, no problem.
This afternoon it fired up just fine, I drove it about 7 miles and the
ticking came back. I stopped for a cup of coffee, and the next three times
I started it, it ran fine.

So, I guess the cover comes off in the (real) spring...

Dave and Trudy

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:F7GdnVh1tbIU6YjbnZ2dnUVZ_sapnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>>
>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
> return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
> are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
> is mighty attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike

I did a little research on this Mike.

" On the other side of the engine block are those additives which will
cleanse your engine, not coat it. Stuff like Bardahl, Rislone and Marvel
Mystery Oil claim they can make your engine run quieter and smoother, and
reduce oil burning. These are products which contain solvents or detergents
such as kerosene, naphthalene, xylene, acetone or isopropanol. If used
properly, I suppose these products will strip off your Teflon and zinc
protective coatings! But unless you have a really old and abused car, you
probably have no need of stripping away sludge and deposits from your
engine. Thus, you probably have no need for these wonder cleaners. If you
overuse such products you can damage your engine by promoting metal to metal
contact".

This came from the following site: http://skepdic.com/slick50.html. I
couldn't find much about the contents but I would conclude that it is a
petroleum distillate solvent that removes sludge, dirt, and other corruption
thereby enhancing the oil flow but I can't prove such. I would say it is a
temporary fix for an engine that has been neglected over time...

DaveD


>
>
>