Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
(interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.

Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
setups are not.

Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.

Really? Japanese cars still have high resale values compared to their
American competitors.

> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven
> setups are not.

Really, now? Most members of the general public don't even know what a
timing belt is.

> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.

Yeah, like you know.

Jeff

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Jeff wrote:
>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
>> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
>> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
>> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Really? Japanese cars still have high resale values compared to their
> American competitors.
>
>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>> driven
>> setups are not.
>
> Really, now? Most members of the general public don't even know what a
> timing belt is.
>
>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
> Yeah, like you know.
>
Like it's not trolling to multiple post this in honda, toyota, nissan
forums...
Kind of like the number of post mid 90's model 4 cyl. Nissans offered
for sale on web auctions here, where the owners claim that the timing
belt has just been replaced...

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
> uninformed and never-the-less opinionated troll crap deleted ...
> ... double OHC engines are safe design.

Since when does a DOHC engine HAVE be a non-interferance design? Also since
when does a timing chain solve the "problems" with belts? Ever heard of
timing chain chatter?

SD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles on
2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I guess
it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt service.
What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"MAT" <marcoat*RM_@SPAM_*hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ruqdnX1nS5CFpYnbnZ2dnUVZ_oavnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain?

First the chain wears ie gets slightly longer, and the cam + drive gear
teeth get worn as well. The chain starts to chatter, and the valve timing
goes off a bit. Timing chains seldom if ever break unless the lubrication
system fails, at which point the chain gets REALLY noisy. If left long
enough, the lubrication failure may affect the cam bearings or even main or
big ends. I've never seen a chain break on the old BMC A and B series, Ford
Cortina 1500/1600 engines and an E-type Jag engine I worked on years ago.
Just about everything else let go, but not the chain ...

An severely overreved engine would sometimes stretch the chain and throw the
valve timing really off.

SD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

George Orwell wrote:
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
miles.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

George Orwell wrote:
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
troll.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

MAT wrote:
> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles on
> 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I guess
> it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt service.
> What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>
>
#1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit,
and don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained
belted engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained
chain engine.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:43:14 -0400, Stewart DIBBS wrote:

>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> uninformed and never-the-less opinionated troll crap deleted ... ...
>> double OHC engines are safe design.
>
> Since when does a DOHC engine HAVE be a non-interferance design? Also
> since when does a timing chain solve the "problems" with belts? Ever heard
> of timing chain chatter?
>
> SD


Almost all the Toyota DOHC engines are Non-Interference. Most Toyotas now
have DOHC engines, and I believe they are all chains now.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:04:10 +0200, George Orwell wrote:

> Watch out!

Why?

> Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>

Huh? So you replace the engine. That ruins the rest of the car?
Word has gotten around about what? Most Japanese Import cars out values
their Big3 counterparts by THOUSANDS of dollars for similar model type and
year.

> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven setups are not.

Lets us know when you pull your head out of your ass. A lot of single OHC
engines are interference, Japanese or American. My Chrysler LHS 3.5l was
an interference engine.

Come back when you actually know something...

(we'll never see this one again...)


>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:oL6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> MAT wrote:
>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>

Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
not enough data for a positive answer yet.

Mike

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:oL6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> MAT wrote:
>>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
>> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
>> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
>> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>>
>
> Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> Mike
>

well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
velocity fluctuation.

don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Moe wrote:

> George Orwell wrote:
>
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
>> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
>> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
>> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>>
>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>> driven
>> setups are not.
>>
>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>>
> 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
> had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
> timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
> a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
> miles.


I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
is fine...

JT

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Apr 5, 12:33 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >news:oL6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.n et...
> >> MAT wrote:
> >>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
> >>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
> >>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
> >>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> >> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> >> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> >> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> >> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>



> > Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> > forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> > problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> > not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> > Mike
>
> well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
> particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
> velocity fluctuation.
>
> don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
> and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.


I guess it comes to how well built the motor is, belt or chain. Fact
is, Nissan VQ V6es are legendary, reliable timing chain motors. They
just don't die. Even the SR20s, KA24s and GAs seem to hold up quite
well. All timing chain motors. Honda and Toyota make great, long
lasting timing belt motors.

CD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines.

IIRC most toyotas are non-interference. It has nothing to do with being
single or double cam.

Hows about maintaining your car properly, therefore never having that
problem?

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:37:36 +0100, Coyoteboy wrote:

>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>> running (interference) engines.
>
> IIRC most toyotas are non-interference. It has nothing to do with being
> single or double cam.

A lot ot the SOHC Toyotas are interference.

But what Dimwit pays no attention to at all is the Maintenance Schedule in
that often overlooked little piece of information called the Owner's
Manual.

If you change your belt when it says, you'll not have any trouble. I
overlooked this in my Corolla GTS, but being a DOHC it's Non-Interference.
The manual says 60,000; I had two belts go 120,000. I was lucky...


>
> Hows about maintaining your car properly, therefore never having that
> problem?

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>

>
> I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing is
> fine...
>
> JT
>
>
I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from work
and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car home
and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh. Pulling
the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while driving.
Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing cover. There I
found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from the steel core, and
was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!

Mike

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:33:00 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts>
wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:37:36 +0100, Coyoteboy wrote:
>
>>
>> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
>> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>>> running (interference) engines.
>>
>> IIRC most toyotas are non-interference. It has nothing to do with being
>> single or double cam.
>
>A lot ot the SOHC Toyotas are interference.
>
>But what Dimwit pays no attention to at all is the Maintenance Schedule in
>that often overlooked little piece of information called the Owner's
>Manual.
>
>If you change your belt when it says, you'll not have any trouble. I
>overlooked this in my Corolla GTS, but being a DOHC it's Non-Interference.
>The manual says 60,000; I had two belts go 120,000. I was lucky...

Probably just a little. You were taking a risk, though. The
recommended interval is intended to avoid 99+% of failures. The
failure rate after 120K might only be 20%.

OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.



>
>
>>
>> Hows about maintaining your car properly, therefore never having that
>> problem?

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:40:44 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:33:00 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:37:36 +0100, Coyoteboy wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
>>> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>>>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>>>> running (interference) engines.
>>>
>>> IIRC most toyotas are non-interference. It has nothing to do with being
>>> single or double cam.
>>
>>A lot ot the SOHC Toyotas are interference.
>>
>>But what Dimwit pays no attention to at all is the Maintenance Schedule
>>in that often overlooked little piece of information called the Owner's
>>Manual.
>>
>>If you change your belt when it says, you'll not have any trouble. I
>>overlooked this in my Corolla GTS, but being a DOHC it's
>>Non-Interference. The manual says 60,000; I had two belts go 120,000. I
>>was lucky...
>
> Probably just a little. You were taking a risk, though. The recommended
> interval is intended to avoid 99+% of failures. The failure rate after
> 120K might only be 20%.
>
> OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports cars
> that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's. He went
> over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the belt broke
> and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would never miss another
> change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral of the story: stick to
> Honda and Toyota.

Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!

And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!



>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Hows about maintaining your car properly, therefore never having that
>>> problem?

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:44 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> Moe wrote:
>
>> George Orwell wrote:
>>
>>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>>> running (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or
>>> breaks, your engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the
>>> warranty period, the resale takes a big hit because the word has got
>>> around.
>>>
>>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>>> driven
>>> setups are not.
>>>
>>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>>>
>> 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
>> had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
>> timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
>> a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
>> miles.
>
>
> I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing is
> fine...
>
> JT


Noisy! But certainly the way to go. There are lots of kits on the market
for various motors to replace belt/chains with gears.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:08:38 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
> news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>>
>
>> I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
>> is fine...
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
> I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from work
> and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car home
> and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh. Pulling
> the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while
> driving. Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing cover.
> There I found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from the steel
> core, and was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!
>
> Mike


LOL! I would guess...264?

There were some Volvos that had PRESSBOARD timing gears! I spent an
afternoon with a friend who got sick of replacing them and replaced it
with a steel gear.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:93fRh.14727$IY4.4535@trndny03...
> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:08:38 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>> news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
>>> is fine...
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>> I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from
>> work
>> and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car home
>> and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh.
>> Pulling
>> the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while
>> driving. Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing cover.
>> There I found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from the
>> steel
>> core, and was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> LOL! I would guess...264?
>
> There were some Volvos that had PRESSBOARD timing gears! I spent an
> afternoon with a friend who got sick of replacing them and replaced it
> with a steel gear.
>
>
>
145. The odometer must have been about 260K at the time. I asked at the
dealer if a steel gear was available, and he said he had one. He had sold it
several times but it always came back because it was so noisy. Makes sense,
I guess, and after thinking about it I figured the car wasn't likely to
outlast the composite replacement gear.

Mike

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:54:03 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:93fRh.14727$IY4.4535@trndny03...
>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:08:38 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the
>>>> timing is fine...
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from
>>> work
>>> and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car
>>> home and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh.
>>> Pulling
>>> the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while
>>> driving. Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing
>>> cover. There I found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from
>>> the steel
>>> core, and was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>> LOL! I would guess...264?
>>
>> There were some Volvos that had PRESSBOARD timing gears! I spent an
>> afternoon with a friend who got sick of replacing them and replaced it
>> with a steel gear.
>>
>>
>>
> 145. The odometer must have been about 260K at the time. I asked at the
> dealer if a steel gear was available, and he said he had one. He had sold
> it several times but it always came back because it was so noisy. Makes
> sense, I guess, and after thinking about it I figured the car wasn't
> likely to outlast the composite replacement gear.
>
> Mike


Yeah, it did sound horrible, but we never had to rip the front of the car
off again!

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
> news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
>>I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing is
>>fine...
>>
>>JT
>>
>>
>
> I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from work
> and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car home
> and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh. Pulling
> the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while driving.
> Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing cover. There I
> found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from the steel core, and
> was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!
>
> Mike
>
>

It can happen but not very often...

JT

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:44 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Moe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>George Orwell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>>>>running (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or
>>>>breaks, your engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the
>>>>warranty period, the resale takes a big hit because the word has got
>>>>around.
>>>>
>>>>Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>>>>driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>>>>driven
>>>>setups are not.
>>>>
>>>>Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>>>>
>>>
>>>6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
>>>had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
>>>timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
>>>a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
>>>miles.
>>
>>
>>I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing is
>>fine...
>>
>>JT
>
>
>
> Noisy! But certainly the way to go. There are lots of kits on the market
> for various motors to replace belt/chains with gears.
>


Not so (noisy).

Only noise is from the solid lifters, another way to go if you hate
shortlived comfort.

JT

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:08:38 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>
>>"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>>news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>>>
>>>I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
>>>is fine...
>>>
>>>JT
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from work
>>and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the car home
>>and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing. Huh. Pulling
>>the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard it while
>>driving. Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the timing cover.
>>There I found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had separated from the steel
>>core, and was lifting up and dropping every revolution... bang!
>>
>>Mike
>
>
>
> LOL! I would guess...264?
>
> There were some Volvos that had PRESSBOARD timing gears! I spent an
> afternoon with a friend who got sick of replacing them and replaced it
> with a steel gear.
>
>


Studebaker used a fiber (phonolic) cam gear and steel crank gear.
Failure is almost unheard of at least before 300K. High performance
engines were equipped with an aluminum cam gear.

Volvo was not the most dependable foreign car made. I can tell some
horror stories...

JT

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:05:55 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:08:38 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Im8Rh.249274$5j1.31907@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
>>>>is fine...
>>>>
>>>>JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I had a 1970 Volvo with timing gears. One day I was driving home from
>>>work and heard the unmistakable sound of a bad rod knock. I towed the
>>>car home and lifted the engine to drop the pan, then found... nothing.
>>>Huh. Pulling the crank through I heard the "bang" as plainly as I heard
>>>it while driving. Double huh. It seemed to be coming from under the
>>>timing cover. There I found the cam gear's fiber outer ring had
>>>separated from the steel core, and was lifting up and dropping every
>>>revolution... bang!
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL! I would guess...264?
>>
>> There were some Volvos that had PRESSBOARD timing gears! I spent an
>> afternoon with a friend who got sick of replacing them and replaced it
>> with a steel gear.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Studebaker used a fiber (phonolic) cam gear and steel crank gear. Failure
> is almost unheard of at least before 300K. High performance engines were
> equipped with an aluminum cam gear.
>
> Volvo was not the most dependable foreign car made. I can tell some
> horror stories...
>
> JT


I had an 1800ES. Except for trying to KILL me, it was an OK car, but
monthly maintenance required.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:48:07 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts>
wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:40:44 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:33:00 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:37:36 +0100, Coyoteboy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
>>>> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>>>>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free
>>>>> running (interference) engines.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC most toyotas are non-interference. It has nothing to do with being
>>>> single or double cam.
>>>
>>>A lot ot the SOHC Toyotas are interference.
>>>
>>>But what Dimwit pays no attention to at all is the Maintenance Schedule
>>>in that often overlooked little piece of information called the Owner's
>>>Manual.
>>>
>>>If you change your belt when it says, you'll not have any trouble. I
>>>overlooked this in my Corolla GTS, but being a DOHC it's
>>>Non-Interference. The manual says 60,000; I had two belts go 120,000. I
>>>was lucky...
>>
>> Probably just a little. You were taking a risk, though. The recommended
>> interval is intended to avoid 99+% of failures. The failure rate after
>> 120K might only be 20%.
>>
>> OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports cars
>> that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's. He went
>> over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the belt broke
>> and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would never miss another
>> change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral of the story: stick to
>> Honda and Toyota.
>
>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>
>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!
>

He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never
learn.

touch front*wheels ( Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine )
 

| Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
| (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
| engine and $8,000 is gone.

Honda engines <3.2 litre are all inteference*designs
www.aa1car.com/library/2003/us70343.htm para 9
Toyota's newer engines are not *.

In 10-05 my honda F20A 's timing belt broke @ 79800 km (
owner's manual says replace @100k km ), pistons then hit &
broke valves. I had to buy & fit a used F20A imported fr japan,
total cost M$2261 @3.80 = US$595. Feasible for you to send
car to Mexico to change engine ?
I think this question of when to change t-belts, depends on how
hot an engine gets ; neoprene ages ( hardens & cracks ) faster
with heat. Japanese manufacturers don't calibrate their tmprtre
gauges, so 1 easy way to tell if an engine ( in a front-wd car ) is
too hot is to touch * ( assumed alloy )' centres : if * cannot be
touched for 5 seconds w-o scorching your fingers, then engine
is too hot for belts to last as long as expected per service
schedule. In just 33ºC humid air, my SM4's * used to be too
hot to touch, caused by a few design flaws & cheapo 4-1 exhaust
manifold.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:23:18 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:

>>> OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
>>> cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
>>> He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
>>> belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
>>> never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
>>> of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.
>>
>>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>>
>>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!
>>
>>
> He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never learn.


LOL! How do you say "Blown head gasket" in Japanese?

It's either Isuzu or Supra, I can't remember now...

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:23:18 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
>
>>>>OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
>>>>cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
>>>>He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
>>>>belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
>>>>never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
>>>>of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.
>>>
>>>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>>>
>>>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never learn.
>
>
>
> LOL! How do you say "Blown head gasket" in Japanese?
>
> It's either Isuzu or Supra, I can't remember now...
>
>
Yup. Supra MKIII turbos. Mine was one of many with blown head gaskets.
Pity, such a beautiful car.

CD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

"Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message news:ruORh.24$fy6.13@newsfe12.lga...
> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:23:18 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
>>>>>cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
>>>>>He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
>>>>>belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
>>>>>never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
>>>>>of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.
>>>>
>>>>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>>>>
>>>>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never learn.
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL! How do you say "Blown head gasket" in Japanese? It's either Isuzu or Supra, I can't remember now...
>>
>>
> Yup. Supra MKIII turbos. Mine was one of many with blown head gaskets. Pity, such a beautiful car.
>
> CD



Was your Supra stock? Ever overheat or leak coolant?
I'm just curious because I have been following the issue (own a Supra) for a long time.

Thanks
Dan

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:09:52 -0400, Codifus wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:23:18 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
>>>>>cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
>>>>>He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
>>>>>belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
>>>>>never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
>>>>>of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.
>>>>
>>>>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>>>>
>>>>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile
>>>>interval!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never learn.
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL! How do you say "Blown head gasket" in Japanese?
>>
>> It's either Isuzu or Supra, I can't remember now...
>>
>>
> Yup. Supra MKIII turbos. Mine was one of many with blown head gaskets.
> Pity, such a beautiful car.
>
> CD


When I bought mine, I had all the records from the previous owner (but not
from the original owner). I know the last owner spent $1100 on cooling
system components. I wonder if that included a HG. I'll have to see if I
can find it.

I ran it one year just fine, and then last year it started overheating.
Thanks to Ray O and Danny G I discovered the fan clutch had bitten the big
one. A new clutch and no overheating problems!

The only problem is, I went aftermarket. When the fan comes on it does so
with a vengance, and the car sounds like a B-17 taking off! (If you've
ever heard one, that is!)

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Danny G. wrote:
> "Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message news:ruORh.24$fy6.13@newsfe12.lga...
>
>>Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:23:18 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>OTOH, I know a guy who had one of those turbo Mitsubishi awd sports
>>>>>>cars that were sold under the (Chrysler) Eagle brand back in the 90's.
>>>>>>He went over the 45K recommended interval by about 1000 miles and the
>>>>>>belt broke and trashed the engine. He fixed it and swore he would
>>>>>>never miss another change interval. The next belt broke at 44K. Moral
>>>>>>of the story: stick to Honda and Toyota.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mitsu's are notorious for throwing belts!
>>>>>
>>>>>And, if I were your friend, I would think about a 40,000 mile interval!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He dumped that car and bought an Isuzu mini SUV. Some guys never learn.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>LOL! How do you say "Blown head gasket" in Japanese? It's either Isuzu or Supra, I can't remember now...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yup. Supra MKIII turbos. Mine was one of many with blown head gaskets. Pity, such a beautiful car.
>>
>>CD
>
>
>
>
> Was your Supra stock? Ever overheat or leak coolant?
> I'm just curious because I have been following the issue (own a Supra) or a long time.
>
> Thanks
> Dan
>
>
Classic symptoms of a blown head gasket:

Car overheats and the overflow tanks boils over. You stop the car and
let it cool down. Surprisingly, it cools down rather quickly. You fill
the radiator and overflow with coolant and drive off. The car is fine
for some time, like a week or so before it does it again.

I kept that going for a year, then one day the car was totally sick. No
power, exhaust was pure smoke. I knew the the head gasket just blew a
whole chunk by then and coolant was going directly into the combustion
chamber.

Had the gasket replaced and car was good after that.

CD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 19:55:29 -0400, Codifus wrote:

>> Was your Supra stock? Ever overheat or leak coolant? I'm just curious
>> because I have been following the issue (own a Supra) or a long time.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dan
>>
>>
> Classic symptoms of a blown head gasket:
>
> Car overheats and the overflow tanks boils over.

Uh, oh..


> You stop the car and let
> it cool down. Surprisingly, it cools down rather quickly.

Well, that didn't happen...it took quite a while!

> You fill the
> radiator and overflow with coolant and drive off. The car is fine for some
> time, like a week or so before it does it again.

Nah, not in my case.


>
> I kept that going for a year, then one day the car was totally sick. No
> power, exhaust was pure smoke. I knew the the head gasket just blew a
> whole chunk by then and coolant was going directly into the combustion
> chamber.
>
> Had the gasket replaced and car was good after that.

Mine was a fan clutch that wasn't working right. After I replaced it,
everthing was fine.

But, one time the overflow bottle was boiling...

Or at least had steam bubbling up in it.

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
>
> Mine was a fan clutch that wasn't working right. After I replaced it,
> everthing was fine.
>
> But, one time the overflow bottle was boiling...
>
> Or at least had steam bubbling up in it.
>

Yeah, after you replaced the fan and you still had bubbles in the
overflow tank, yours was on the way out. Keep in mind that it varies
driving style. For my style, let's just say that I would stop the car at
night and pop the hood to see the turbo glowing bright orange . . . . .
.. .and it was definitely NOT from any neon lights:)

CD

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:48:55 -0400, Codifus wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
>>
>> Mine was a fan clutch that wasn't working right. After I replaced it,
>> everthing was fine.
>>
>> But, one time the overflow bottle was boiling...
>>
>> Or at least had steam bubbling up in it.
>>
>>
> Yeah, after you replaced the fan and you still had bubbles in the overflow
> tank, yours was on the way out. Keep in mind that it varies driving style.
> For my style, let's just say that I would stop the car at night and pop
> the hood to see the turbo glowing bright orange . . . . . . .and it was
> definitely NOT from any neon lights:)
>
> CD


No, after I replaced the fan clutch the overheating and the bubbling
stopped. And, I don't have the Turbo, so I ain't overheating much
(pavement included...I have the Sport Roof model...4400 LBS, automatic and
NO TURBO!!!)

Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:04:10 +0200, George Orwell wrote:

> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.


Oh, yeah...Codifus made me remember something. When I bought my Supra, it
had...a BROKEN TIMING BELT!!!! But since I knew this was a
Non-Interference engine, $100 and a new timing belt later it was up and
running just fine again.

so there.