Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
04-04-2007, 06:04 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
(interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
setups are not.
Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
(interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
setups are not.
Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
04-04-2007, 06:22 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
Really? Japanese cars still have high resale values compared to their
American competitors.
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven
> setups are not.
Really, now? Most members of the general public don't even know what a
timing belt is.
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
Yeah, like you know.
Jeff
04-04-2007, 06:32 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
Jeff wrote:
>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
>> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
>> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
>> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Really? Japanese cars still have high resale values compared to their
> American competitors.
>
>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>> driven
>> setups are not.
>
> Really, now? Most members of the general public don't even know what a
> timing belt is.
>
>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
> Yeah, like you know.
>
Like it's not trolling to multiple post this in honda, toyota, nissan
forums...
Kind of like the number of post mid 90's model 4 cyl. Nissans offered
for sale on web auctions here, where the owners claim that the timing
belt has just been replaced...
>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
>> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
>> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
>> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Really? Japanese cars still have high resale values compared to their
> American competitors.
>
>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>> driven
>> setups are not.
>
> Really, now? Most members of the general public don't even know what a
> timing belt is.
>
>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
> Yeah, like you know.
>
Like it's not trolling to multiple post this in honda, toyota, nissan
forums...
Kind of like the number of post mid 90's model 4 cyl. Nissans offered
for sale on web auctions here, where the owners claim that the timing
belt has just been replaced...
04-04-2007, 07:43 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
> uninformed and never-the-less opinionated troll crap deleted ...
> ... double OHC engines are safe design.
Since when does a DOHC engine HAVE be a non-interferance design? Also since
when does a timing chain solve the "problems" with belts? Ever heard of
timing chain chatter?
SD
04-04-2007, 07:43 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles on
2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I guess
it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt service.
What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
04-04-2007, 07:54 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
"MAT" <marcoat*RM_@SPAM_*hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ruqdnX1nS5CFpYnbnZ2dnUVZ_oavnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain?
First the chain wears ie gets slightly longer, and the cam + drive gear
teeth get worn as well. The chain starts to chatter, and the valve timing
goes off a bit. Timing chains seldom if ever break unless the lubrication
system fails, at which point the chain gets REALLY noisy. If left long
enough, the lubrication failure may affect the cam bearings or even main or
big ends. I've never seen a chain break on the old BMC A and B series, Ford
Cortina 1500/1600 engines and an E-type Jag engine I worked on years ago.
Just about everything else let go, but not the chain ...
An severely overreved engine would sometimes stretch the chain and throw the
valve timing really off.
SD
04-04-2007, 08:17 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
George Orwell wrote:
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
miles.
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
miles.
04-04-2007, 11:49 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
George Orwell wrote:
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
troll.
> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt driven
> setups are not.
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>
troll.
04-04-2007, 11:54 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
MAT wrote:
> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles on
> 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I guess
> it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt service.
> What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>
>
#1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit,
and don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained
belted engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained
chain engine.
> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles on
> 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I guess
> it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt service.
> What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>
>
#1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit,
and don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained
belted engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained
chain engine.
04-04-2007, 11:54 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:43:14 -0400, Stewart DIBBS wrote:
>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> uninformed and never-the-less opinionated troll crap deleted ... ...
>> double OHC engines are safe design.
>
> Since when does a DOHC engine HAVE be a non-interferance design? Also
> since when does a timing chain solve the "problems" with belts? Ever heard
> of timing chain chatter?
>
> SD
Almost all the Toyota DOHC engines are Non-Interference. Most Toyotas now
have DOHC engines, and I believe they are all chains now.
>
> "George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:ec813952b460ac615bc8b58fc606cd73@mixmaster.it ...
>> uninformed and never-the-less opinionated troll crap deleted ... ...
>> double OHC engines are safe design.
>
> Since when does a DOHC engine HAVE be a non-interferance design? Also
> since when does a timing chain solve the "problems" with belts? Ever heard
> of timing chain chatter?
>
> SD
Almost all the Toyota DOHC engines are Non-Interference. Most Toyotas now
have DOHC engines, and I believe they are all chains now.
04-04-2007, 11:59 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:04:10 +0200, George Orwell wrote:
> Watch out!
Why?
> Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
Huh? So you replace the engine. That ruins the rest of the car?
Word has gotten around about what? Most Japanese Import cars out values
their Big3 counterparts by THOUSANDS of dollars for similar model type and
year.
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven setups are not.
Lets us know when you pull your head out of your ***. A lot of single OHC
engines are interference, Japanese or American. My Chrysler LHS 3.5l was
an interference engine.
Come back when you actually know something...
(we'll never see this one again...)
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
> Watch out!
Why?
> Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>
Huh? So you replace the engine. That ruins the rest of the car?
Word has gotten around about what? Most Japanese Import cars out values
their Big3 counterparts by THOUSANDS of dollars for similar model type and
year.
> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
> driven setups are not.
Lets us know when you pull your head out of your ***. A lot of single OHC
engines are interference, Japanese or American. My Chrysler LHS 3.5l was
an interference engine.
Come back when you actually know something...
(we'll never see this one again...)
>
> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
04-05-2007, 12:23 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news
L6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> MAT wrote:
>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>
Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
not enough data for a positive answer yet.
Mike
news
L6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...> MAT wrote:
>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>
Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
not enough data for a positive answer yet.
Mike
04-05-2007, 12:33 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> newsL6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> MAT wrote:
>>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
>> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
>> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
>> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>>
>
> Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> Mike
>
well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
velocity fluctuation.
don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news
L6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...>> MAT wrote:
>>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
>>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
>>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
>>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
>> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
>> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
>> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
>> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>>
>
> Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> Mike
>
well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
velocity fluctuation.
don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.
04-05-2007, 11:13 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
Moe wrote:
> George Orwell wrote:
>
>> Watch out! Many Japanese products use timing belts with non-free running
>> (interference) engines. When, not if, the belt skips or breaks, your
>> engine and $8,000 is gone. Even if you get through the warranty period,
>> the resale takes a big hit because the word has got around.
>>
>> Auto makers, heed this warning. The public knows gear, shaft, or chain
>> driven single or double OHC engines are are safe design. Timing belt
>> driven
>> setups are not.
>>
>> Suzuki is an exception. Their cars are okay.
>>
> 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I've had a timing gear fail, I've
> had chains fail, I've had timing belts fail. I kinda prefer the
> timing belts all in all, quieter, better valve timing. I've never seen
> a chevy V8 that didn't have a lot of slack in the timing chain after 80K
> miles.
I prefer gears. My 1964 Studebaker P/U 289 has over 300K and the timing
is fine...
JT
04-05-2007, 02:11 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lose your timing belt, lose your engine
On Apr 5, 12:33 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >newsL6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.n et...
> >> MAT wrote:
> >>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
> >>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
> >>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
> >>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> >> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> >> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> >> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> >> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>
> > Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> > forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> > problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> > not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> > Mike
>
> well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
> particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
> velocity fluctuation.
>
> don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
> and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.
I guess it comes to how well built the motor is, belt or chain. Fact
is, Nissan VQ V6es are legendary, reliable timing chain motors. They
just don't die. Even the SR20s, KA24s and GAs seem to hold up quite
well. All timing chain motors. Honda and Toyota make great, long
lasting timing belt motors.
CD
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >news
L6dnQQf0ft974nbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@speakeasy.n et...> >> MAT wrote:
> >>> What happens with a stretched or broken timing chain? I have 110k miles
> >>> on 2002 K20A3 and I had belted Honda before this. Still runs great and I
> >>> guess it was kinda cool I didn't have to do or pay for the timing belt
> >>> service. What's the downside and eventual maintenance of timing chain?
> >> #1 problem is chain stretch - that leads to cam timing issues and noise.
> >> belts are quiet, highly reliable within their stated mileage limit, and
> >> don't stretch. long term, you'll get more out of a well maintained belted
> >> engine than what is basically supposed to be an unmaintained chain engine.
>
> > Newer timing chains appear to be much improved. Several people in the Prius
> > forums I frequent are right around 200K miles and have not had timing chain
> > problems. There is no schedule for changing the chain, either. Disclaimer -
> > not enough data for a positive answer yet.
>
> > Mike
>
> well, chains work, but belts are a better technical solution.
> particularly for high performance engines - less momentum and angular
> velocity fluctuation.
>
> don't forget, design criteria these days are all about life limitation
> and cheapness - chain wins on both counts.
I guess it comes to how well built the motor is, belt or chain. Fact
is, Nissan VQ V6es are legendary, reliable timing chain motors. They
just don't die. Even the SR20s, KA24s and GAs seem to hold up quite
well. All timing chain motors. Honda and Toyota make great, long
lasting timing belt motors.
CD