"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most small-capacity
>> 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake restriction to begin
>> with.
>>
>
> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open throttle
> has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or filter... it's
> called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or exhaust mods can
> only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've never understood the
> attraction myself.
>
> Mike
>
>

altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any given
RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more fuel,making more
power,regardless of what RPM.
Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
systems testing a couple of years ago.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>
>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most small-capacity
>>> 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake restriction to begin
>>> with.
>>>
>>
>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open throttle
>> has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or filter... it's
>> called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or exhaust mods can
>> only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've never understood the
>> attraction myself.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any given
> RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more fuel,making more
> power,regardless of what RPM.
> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and a
little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more fuel" he's
going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he gets more HP out
of a CAI is moot.

Doug

 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>
>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most small-capacity
>>> 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake restriction to begin
>>> with.
>>>
>>
>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open throttle
>> has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or filter... it's
>> called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or exhaust mods can
>> only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've never understood the
>> attraction myself.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any given
> RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more fuel,making more
> power,regardless of what RPM.
> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and a
little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more fuel" he's
going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he gets more HP out
of a CAI is moot.

Doug

 

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
> range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
> 60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
> because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
> save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
> mid-range performance and longer engine life.

In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
almost exactly what I was hoping for.

I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.

The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.

One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.

It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
that this location would normally provide it with a source for
(relatively) cold air.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
> range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
> 60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
> because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
> save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
> mid-range performance and longer engine life.

In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
almost exactly what I was hoping for.

I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.

The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.

One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.

It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
that this location would normally provide it with a source for
(relatively) cold air.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

"doug" <NOSPAM@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in
news:45udnZEjjatiMKbZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:

>
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
> news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
>> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>>
>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>>
>>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most
>>>> small-capacity 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake
>>>> restriction to begin with.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open
>>> throttle has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or
>>> filter... it's called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or
>>> exhaust mods can only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've
>>> never understood the attraction myself.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any
>> given RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more
>> fuel,making more power,regardless of what RPM.
>> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
>> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Yanik
>> jyanik
>> at
>> kua.net
>
> You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and
> a little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more
> fuel" he's going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he
> gets more HP out of a CAI is moot.
>
> Doug
>
>
>

You don't get increased power AND increased fuel economy at the same time.
However,having more power output at a given throttle opening,you can back
off on the throttle and use less fuel and not suffer a performance
loss(from original).
With the added benefit of having more power available when wanted.

IMO,driving -style- is more influential on fuel economy,gentler starts and
coasting when possible do more for fuel economy than any mods.
Sure,he could strip out excess weight like insulation,unused seats,clean
out the trunk,no spare tire,but that's impractical.(and unwise)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

"doug" <NOSPAM@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in
news:45udnZEjjatiMKbZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:

>
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
> news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
>> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>>
>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>>
>>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most
>>>> small-capacity 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake
>>>> restriction to begin with.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open
>>> throttle has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or
>>> filter... it's called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or
>>> exhaust mods can only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've
>>> never understood the attraction myself.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any
>> given RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more
>> fuel,making more power,regardless of what RPM.
>> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
>> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Yanik
>> jyanik
>> at
>> kua.net
>
> You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and
> a little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more
> fuel" he's going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he
> gets more HP out of a CAI is moot.
>
> Doug
>
>
>

You don't get increased power AND increased fuel economy at the same time.
However,having more power output at a given throttle opening,you can back
off on the throttle and use less fuel and not suffer a performance
loss(from original).
With the added benefit of having more power available when wanted.

IMO,driving -style- is more influential on fuel economy,gentler starts and
coasting when possible do more for fuel economy than any mods.
Sure,he could strip out excess weight like insulation,unused seats,clean
out the trunk,no spare tire,but that's impractical.(and unwise)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Charles Lasitter <spoof@address.com> wrote in
news:adan321ji8rps081d3o471j5hmhtr4jb0g@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
>> range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
>> 60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
>> because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
>> save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
>> mid-range performance and longer engine life.
>
> In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
> opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
> almost exactly what I was hoping for.
>
> I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
> terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
> small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.

Honda Tuning Magazine's tests got 20 hp gains on an RSX with the CAIs,5-7
hp with short rams.I could definitely feel the gain on my GSR after the CAI
was put in. IMO,a short ram was not worth the trouble or cost.
>
> The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
> number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.
>
> One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
> Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
> seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.

Like in my Integra,you may find that the intake curves UP into the top of
the fender and back into the engine compartment,along with a resonator tank
in that wheelwell area.The Type-R difference is that the pipe ends at the
top inside of the fender,not reentering the engine compartment.The length
of the intake piping increases low-end torque,I've read.

>
> It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
> that this location would normally provide it with a source for
> (relatively) cold air.


Not when the pipe loops back into the engine compartment.(like my Integra)

One Integra modder had a diagram of the Integra intake plumbing on their
website,and a copy of the Type-R's intake,too.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Charles Lasitter <spoof@address.com> wrote in
news:adan321ji8rps081d3o471j5hmhtr4jb0g@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
>> range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
>> 60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
>> because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
>> save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
>> mid-range performance and longer engine life.
>
> In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
> opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
> almost exactly what I was hoping for.
>
> I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
> terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
> small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.

Honda Tuning Magazine's tests got 20 hp gains on an RSX with the CAIs,5-7
hp with short rams.I could definitely feel the gain on my GSR after the CAI
was put in. IMO,a short ram was not worth the trouble or cost.
>
> The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
> number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.
>
> One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
> Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
> seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.

Like in my Integra,you may find that the intake curves UP into the top of
the fender and back into the engine compartment,along with a resonator tank
in that wheelwell area.The Type-R difference is that the pipe ends at the
top inside of the fender,not reentering the engine compartment.The length
of the intake piping increases low-end torque,I've read.

>
> It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
> that this location would normally provide it with a source for
> (relatively) cold air.


Not when the pipe loops back into the engine compartment.(like my Integra)

One Integra modder had a diagram of the Integra intake plumbing on their
website,and a copy of the Type-R's intake,too.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

On 11 Apr 2006 16:31:14 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> and coasting when possible ... for fuel economy

This is another topic I'm interested in, so I'm starting another thread
on it.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On 11 Apr 2006 16:31:14 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> and coasting when possible ... for fuel economy

This is another topic I'm interested in, so I'm starting another thread
on it.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns97A27FE34D3A9jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
> "doug" <NOSPAM@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in
> news:45udnZEjjatiMKbZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:
>
>>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
>> news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
>>> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>>>
>>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most
>>>>> small-capacity 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake
>>>>> restriction to begin with.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open
>>>> throttle has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or
>>>> filter... it's called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or
>>>> exhaust mods can only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've
>>>> never understood the attraction myself.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any
>>> given RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more
>>> fuel,making more power,regardless of what RPM.
>>> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
>>> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Yanik
>>> jyanik
>>> at
>>> kua.net
>>
>> You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and
>> a little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more
>> fuel" he's going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he
>> gets more HP out of a CAI is moot.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>
> You don't get increased power AND increased fuel economy at the same time.

Well, yes, you can. But the modifcations to the engine would be much more
far reaching than a new exhaust and/or intake system.

> However,having more power output at a given throttle opening,you can back
> off on the throttle and use less fuel and not suffer a performance
> loss(from original). With the added benefit of having more power available
> when wanted.

Perhaps - but why have all that extra HP if you don't use it. ;-)
>
> IMO,driving -style- is more influential on fuel economy,gentler starts and
> coasting when possible do more for fuel economy than any mods.
> Sure,he could strip out excess weight like insulation,unused seats,clean
> out the trunk,no spare tire,but that's impractical.(and unwise)

You're absolutely correct. But when you have all that HP under your foot...

Doug

 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns97A27FE34D3A9jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
> "doug" <NOSPAM@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in
> news:45udnZEjjatiMKbZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:
>
>>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
>> news:Xns97A1F3CF4D460jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
>>> news:cPWdnZVMScgavqbZRVn-tg@sedona.net:
>>>
>>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns97A17C35323DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any performance gains on a road-going Honda are likely to be
>>>>> measurable only with a dynamometer. Hondas, like most
>>>>> small-capacity 4-cylinder engines, do not have excessive intake
>>>>> restriction to begin with.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, any gasoline engine running at less than wide-open
>>>> throttle has intake restriction, regardless of the air intake or
>>>> filter... it's called a throttle plate. Any benefit of intake or
>>>> exhaust mods can only be felt at full throttle and high rpms. I've
>>>> never understood the attraction myself.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> altering the length of the intake alters the HP and torque at any
>>> given RPM,and ingesting colder air allows the ECU to add more
>>> fuel,making more power,regardless of what RPM.
>>> Honda Tuning Magazine's dyno test graphs showed that,in their intake
>>> systems testing a couple of years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Yanik
>>> jyanik
>>> at
>>> kua.net
>>
>> You're missing the point of the OP - he wants a little more power and
>> a little better economy. If "colder air allows the ECU to add more
>> fuel" he's going to lose MPG, not gain. The point of whether or not he
>> gets more HP out of a CAI is moot.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>
> You don't get increased power AND increased fuel economy at the same time.

Well, yes, you can. But the modifcations to the engine would be much more
far reaching than a new exhaust and/or intake system.

> However,having more power output at a given throttle opening,you can back
> off on the throttle and use less fuel and not suffer a performance
> loss(from original). With the added benefit of having more power available
> when wanted.

Perhaps - but why have all that extra HP if you don't use it. ;-)
>
> IMO,driving -style- is more influential on fuel economy,gentler starts and
> coasting when possible do more for fuel economy than any mods.
> Sure,he could strip out excess weight like insulation,unused seats,clean
> out the trunk,no spare tire,but that's impractical.(and unwise)

You're absolutely correct. But when you have all that HP under your foot...

Doug

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Charles Lasitter <spoof@address.com> wrote in
> news:adan321ji8rps081d3o471j5hmhtr4jb0g@4ax.com:
>
>
>>On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
>>>range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
>>>60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
>>>because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
>>>save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
>>>mid-range performance and longer engine life.
>>
>>In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
>>opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
>>almost exactly what I was hoping for.
>>
>>I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
>>terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
>>small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.
>
>
> Honda Tuning Magazine's tests got 20 hp gains on an RSX with the CAIs,5-7
> hp with short rams.I could definitely feel the gain on my GSR after the CAI
> was put in. IMO,a short ram was not worth the trouble or cost.
>
>>The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
>>number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.
>>
>>One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
>>Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
>>seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.
>
>
> Like in my Integra,you may find that the intake curves UP into the top of
> the fender and back into the engine compartment,along with a resonator tank
> in that wheelwell area.The Type-R difference is that the pipe ends at the
> top inside of the fender,not reentering the engine compartment.The length
> of the intake piping increases low-end torque,I've read.
>
>
>>It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
>>that this location would normally provide it with a source for
>>(relatively) cold air.
>
>
>
> Not when the pipe loops back into the engine compartment.(like my Integra)
>
> One Integra modder had a diagram of the Integra intake plumbing on their
> website,and a copy of the Type-R's intake,too.
>
intake design is a complex subject. turbulence and resonance are
*major* factors in design that i do not see addressed in the typical
"cai". if the resonance is factored right, it can redress some of the
volumetric efficiency quirks any particular motor may have. conversely,
a bigger pipe with incorrect bend design can cause more turbulent
airflow than a narrower pipe with good bend design.

bottom line, yes, some cai's can work on some cars. detroit garbage is
almost invariably advantaged. it's /not/ a given however that something
with a complex tuned induction system like a honda, that replacement
automatically means better results. otherwise every rice-kiddie's
mickey mouse civic would spank my 1.5 dpfi. they don't, much to their
annoyance. mine's old school automatic too, so it should be at a
substantial efficiency disadvantage.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Charles Lasitter <spoof@address.com> wrote in
> news:adan321ji8rps081d3o471j5hmhtr4jb0g@4ax.com:
>
>
>>On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:31:07 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>i gun my [motor all stock] civic pretty hard, use the full rev
>>>range, and guess what, i can drag most riced civics up to about
>>>60. why? because i have everything adjusted perfectly, /not/
>>>because i ponce about with a stupid air intake that i don't need.
>>>save your money - use oem filtration and enjoy both better
>>>mid-range performance and longer engine life.
>>
>>In addition to the advertising hype there are obviously different
>>opinions on the issue of filters and CAIs, and this exchange of views is
>>almost exactly what I was hoping for.
>>
>>I'm really not expecting any of these mods to pay for themselves in
>>terms of fuel economy, and I am not interested in HP gains that are so
>>small they can be measured on a dyno but not felt.
>
>
> Honda Tuning Magazine's tests got 20 hp gains on an RSX with the CAIs,5-7
> hp with short rams.I could definitely feel the gain on my GSR after the CAI
> was put in. IMO,a short ram was not worth the trouble or cost.
>
>>The factory setup is almost always going to be best for the largest
>>number of drivers, and I appreciate your comments.
>>
>>One thing I find curious is the absence of CAI listings for '05 2.4L
>>Accords. I was just out trying to follow the air inlet path, and it
>>seems to end just forward of the drivers front wheelwell.
>
>
> Like in my Integra,you may find that the intake curves UP into the top of
> the fender and back into the engine compartment,along with a resonator tank
> in that wheelwell area.The Type-R difference is that the pipe ends at the
> top inside of the fender,not reentering the engine compartment.The length
> of the intake piping increases low-end torque,I've read.
>
>
>>It's shielded, no doubt to protect against water ingestion, but it seems
>>that this location would normally provide it with a source for
>>(relatively) cold air.
>
>
>
> Not when the pipe loops back into the engine compartment.(like my Integra)
>
> One Integra modder had a diagram of the Integra intake plumbing on their
> website,and a copy of the Type-R's intake,too.
>
intake design is a complex subject. turbulence and resonance are
*major* factors in design that i do not see addressed in the typical
"cai". if the resonance is factored right, it can redress some of the
volumetric efficiency quirks any particular motor may have. conversely,
a bigger pipe with incorrect bend design can cause more turbulent
airflow than a narrower pipe with good bend design.

bottom line, yes, some cai's can work on some cars. detroit garbage is
almost invariably advantaged. it's /not/ a given however that something
with a complex tuned induction system like a honda, that replacement
automatically means better results. otherwise every rice-kiddie's
mickey mouse civic would spank my 1.5 dpfi. they don't, much to their
annoyance. mine's old school automatic too, so it should be at a
substantial efficiency disadvantage.