Jeff

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:24:20 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:20:54 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> DJ NoMore wrote:
>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>> The 36 mpg is not an individual car standard, it is a measure that
>>>>>>> all autos manufactured by a company has to meet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, do I ever know that one. In 2000, I had a 2000 model year truck
>>>>>> that was no where near what the EPA rating was. I thought to myself,
>>>>>> did they measure EPA and throw in a downhill factor or something? I
>>>>>> got 11 MPG in the city and 16 MPG on the highway and I think the
>>>>>> sticker claimed 14/20... yeah right. I won't even tell you how bad it
>>>>>> was when pulling my 3,000 pound mobile DJ trailer around, but it was
>>>>>> SINGLE digits and I had an additional $50 to $150 charge if I had to
>>>>>> travel out of town!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, before my 2007 Accord EX-L V6 6MT was totaled this past October,
>>>>>> I managed to eek out 31 to 33 MPG on my SEVEN trips from Louisiana to
>>>>>> Florida between February and May 2007. I thought that was pretty good
>>>>>> for a car that could hit 60 MPH in six seconds flat. Not bad for a 30
>>>>>> MPG highway rating per the sticker. At least my experience with my
>>>>>> Hondas is that they were always close to or better than the sticker
>>>>>> EPA MPG rating whereas my domestic brand cars never once hit the EPA
>>>>>> rating on the sticker.
>>>>> epa ratings are done on a rolling road - i'm interested to see how they
>>>>> take vehicle weight into account in that scenario, if at all.
>>>> They don't.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>> Not true. The vehicle weight is factored into the calculation which
>>> yields the reported estimate.
>> Evidence please.
>
> Vehicles are placed in "inertia weight classes" based on their weight
> in 500 Lb. increments. (Too course in my judgement but that is the
> way it is.)

That is so that the vehicle maker doesn't have to submit several
different vehicles that are nearly identical, except for different
weights. But, if say a 3000-lb car gets 30 mpg on the highway test, the
number isn't adjusted. however, if the vehicle maker has a 3500 car that
is nearly identical, there is a formula that can be used to estimate the
mileage the 3500-lb car would get based on the mileage the 3000-lb car
obtained. So the vehicle maker can test either car and estimate the
mileage of the other car or the vehicle maker can test both cars to get
the estimates.

> <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=ccab9e991dc3344fff9261057c8e6e08&rg n=div5&view=text&node=40:29.0.1.4.41&idno=40%5D>
<...>

>> The mileage is determined by the Sec. of Transportation, not the EPA.
>> And there is no standard for determining how the mileage is measured.
>
>
> The test procedure is codified in the Code of Federal Regulations (see
> above link) which reads in part:

I am talking about the new requirements, as seen in the Energy
Independence Act of 2007
(http://www.rules.house.gov/110/text/...HamdToSamd.pdf), not the
requirements for the 2008 cars.

Jeff

Gordon McGrew

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:03:18 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:24:20 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:20:54 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> DJ NoMore wrote:
>>>>>>> Woody wrote:
>>>>>>>> The 36 mpg is not an individual car standard, it is a measure that
>>>>>>>> all autos manufactured by a company has to meet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, do I ever know that one. In 2000, I had a 2000 model year truck
>>>>>>> that was no where near what the EPA rating was. I thought to myself,
>>>>>>> did they measure EPA and throw in a downhill factor or something? I
>>>>>>> got 11 MPG in the city and 16 MPG on the highway and I think the
>>>>>>> sticker claimed 14/20... yeah right. I won't even tell you how bad it
>>>>>>> was when pulling my 3,000 pound mobile DJ trailer around, but it was
>>>>>>> SINGLE digits and I had an additional $50 to $150 charge if I had to
>>>>>>> travel out of town!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH, before my 2007 Accord EX-L V6 6MT was totaled this past October,
>>>>>>> I managed to eek out 31 to 33 MPG on my SEVEN trips from Louisiana to
>>>>>>> Florida between February and May 2007. I thought that was pretty good
>>>>>>> for a car that could hit 60 MPH in six seconds flat. Not bad for a 30
>>>>>>> MPG highway rating per the sticker. At least my experience with my
>>>>>>> Hondas is that they were always close to or better than the sticker
>>>>>>> EPA MPG rating whereas my domestic brand cars never once hit the EPA
>>>>>>> rating on the sticker.
>>>>>> epa ratings are done on a rolling road - i'm interested to see how they
>>>>>> take vehicle weight into account in that scenario, if at all.
>>>>> They don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>> Not true. The vehicle weight is factored into the calculation which
>>>> yields the reported estimate.
>>> Evidence please.
>>
>> Vehicles are placed in "inertia weight classes" based on their weight
>> in 500 Lb. increments. (Too course in my judgement but that is the
>> way it is.)
>
>That is so that the vehicle maker doesn't have to submit several
>different vehicles that are nearly identical, except for different
>weights. But, if say a 3000-lb car gets 30 mpg on the highway test, the
>number isn't adjusted. however, if the vehicle maker has a 3500 car that
>is nearly identical, there is a formula that can be used to estimate the
>mileage the 3500-lb car would get based on the mileage the 3000-lb car
>obtained. So the vehicle maker can test either car and estimate the
>mileage of the other car or the vehicle maker can test both cars to get
>the estimates.

I don't think that is exactly the way it works, but in any event, the
(approximate) weight of the vehicle is accounted for.


>
>> <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=ccab9e991dc3344fff9261057c8e6e08&rg n=div5&view=text&node=40:29.0.1.4.41&idno=40%5D>
><...>
>
>>> The mileage is determined by the Sec. of Transportation, not the EPA.
>>> And there is no standard for determining how the mileage is measured.
>>
>>
>> The test procedure is codified in the Code of Federal Regulations (see
>> above link) which reads in part:
>
>I am talking about the new requirements, as seen in the Energy
>Independence Act of 2007
>(http://www.rules.house.gov/110/text/...HamdToSamd.pdf), not the
>requirements for the 2008 cars.

AFAIK, the 2007 legislation changes the CAFE mileage standard that
each manufacturer must meet (or pay a fine.) The method of testing
has not changed. Do you have a source indicating otherwise?







>
>Jeff