dgk

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:29:25 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com>,
> dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>> to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>> switch.
>
>Why?
>
>Do you even know what "bait and switch" is? Or are you just another
>ignoramus who's not getting what he wants in the world, and has to have
>someone to blame something horrific on?

Well Elmo, perhaps it wasn't. I just saw the dealer and they said that
they can get the Metallic Silver one within two weeks. So I wait a bit
more. Now there is a bit of confusion on the Accord timing belt issue
so that gets a new thread.

dgk

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:31:50 GMT, Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com>
wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:27:31 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dgk wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:29:25 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>>>><elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com>,
>>>>>dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>>>>>>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>>>>>>switch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why?
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you even know what "bait and switch" is? Or are you just another
>>>>>ignoramus who's not getting what he wants in the world, and has to have
>>>>>someone to blame something horrific on?
>>>>
>>>>Wow, you're a pretty nasty guy. I'm glad that I don't actually have to
>>>>deal with you in real life.
>>>>
>>>
>>>you need to learn how to understand what elmo's actually telling you.
>>>otherwise you'll be the loser in virtually every negotiation you ever
>>>have. read elmo's post again - what he's saying is:
>>>
>>>1. it's not bait & switch
>>>2. you're not a victim unless you want to be.
>>>
>>>the likely scenario, and the logical one if you bother to think about
>>>it, is that the dealer's having trouble sourcing what you ordered, but
>>>because of the delay is offering you an alternative. therefore, you now
>>>have two options:
>>>
>>>i. keep on waiting, or
>>>ii. settle for a different color.
>>>
>>>if you somehow misinterpret that as "bait & switch", it's your
>>>[in]ability to deal with the situation that's the problem and you're
>>>going to end up feeling screwed whatever the outcome.
>>>
>>>get real, pay attention, make a decision and stick to it. assert what
>>>you want and keep on asserting it until you get it. bleating about
>>>being a victim before anything actually happens means you already are one.
>>
>>
>> More information needed. Bait and switch literally means just drawing
>> you in to shop but not having what was advertised. However, allowing a
>> customer to order something knowing that it isn't going to come in is
>> even worse.
>
>Yes, but unless the dealer advertised an orange Fit, it's not bait-and-switch.
>
>As for your other assertion, you would have to prove that the dealer KNEW an
>orange Fit would never be available. In fact, from other tales here, he may
>have fully believed and expected he could get you one in orange... and it's
>Honda that hasn't come through. Jumping all over the dealer prematurely is just
>ignorant and immature.
>
>> I went to another Honda dealer before using this one, and the first
>> dealer came up with a price of $19,000 before tax. I said that I
>> wouldn't pay over MSRP and she said that other dealers can't get the
>> car but they can. I didn't really believe her but now I do. I think my
>> current dealer did know that it was unlikely that I would get what I
>> ordered.
>
>Now you're getting into conspiracy theories. Honda will sell you can through one
>dealer, but another? Why the hell should they care which dealer it goes
>through? The second dealer KNOWS he can't get a certain car in, but tries to
>sell you one anyway? Think about it for a moment... he doesn't get a dime of
>your money until your car actually arrives (unless you're REALLY stupid). Why
>would he waste his time and energy trying to get you to buy a car that he knows
>he can't provide? Especially when you (presumably) made it clear up front that
>you wanted EXACTLY what you wanted? It just doesn't make sense.
>
>> I can't prove it, and I could certainly be wrong but there really
>> isn't anything to do about it but try for another color and give them
>> another week or two.
>
>Tell the dealer if he REALLY wants to make the sale, he can take a couple grand
>off the price and give you the silver or some other color, and then you can take
>that money and just have the thing repainted.

Good points but I don't think I can get much off the price. Too much
demand. I asked for a cargo net and cover but we'll see. The silver
looks pretty nice but the Orange was even better. They had a silver
non-sport 5-speed and offered me that one but I want the sport. And
while I love manual transmissions, I had a bad experience a few years
back and I think those days are done.

I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

dgk

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:31:50 GMT, Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com>
wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:27:31 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dgk wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:29:25 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>>>><elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com>,
>>>>>dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>>>>>>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>>>>>>switch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why?
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you even know what "bait and switch" is? Or are you just another
>>>>>ignoramus who's not getting what he wants in the world, and has to have
>>>>>someone to blame something horrific on?
>>>>
>>>>Wow, you're a pretty nasty guy. I'm glad that I don't actually have to
>>>>deal with you in real life.
>>>>
>>>
>>>you need to learn how to understand what elmo's actually telling you.
>>>otherwise you'll be the loser in virtually every negotiation you ever
>>>have. read elmo's post again - what he's saying is:
>>>
>>>1. it's not bait & switch
>>>2. you're not a victim unless you want to be.
>>>
>>>the likely scenario, and the logical one if you bother to think about
>>>it, is that the dealer's having trouble sourcing what you ordered, but
>>>because of the delay is offering you an alternative. therefore, you now
>>>have two options:
>>>
>>>i. keep on waiting, or
>>>ii. settle for a different color.
>>>
>>>if you somehow misinterpret that as "bait & switch", it's your
>>>[in]ability to deal with the situation that's the problem and you're
>>>going to end up feeling screwed whatever the outcome.
>>>
>>>get real, pay attention, make a decision and stick to it. assert what
>>>you want and keep on asserting it until you get it. bleating about
>>>being a victim before anything actually happens means you already are one.
>>
>>
>> More information needed. Bait and switch literally means just drawing
>> you in to shop but not having what was advertised. However, allowing a
>> customer to order something knowing that it isn't going to come in is
>> even worse.
>
>Yes, but unless the dealer advertised an orange Fit, it's not bait-and-switch.
>
>As for your other assertion, you would have to prove that the dealer KNEW an
>orange Fit would never be available. In fact, from other tales here, he may
>have fully believed and expected he could get you one in orange... and it's
>Honda that hasn't come through. Jumping all over the dealer prematurely is just
>ignorant and immature.
>
>> I went to another Honda dealer before using this one, and the first
>> dealer came up with a price of $19,000 before tax. I said that I
>> wouldn't pay over MSRP and she said that other dealers can't get the
>> car but they can. I didn't really believe her but now I do. I think my
>> current dealer did know that it was unlikely that I would get what I
>> ordered.
>
>Now you're getting into conspiracy theories. Honda will sell you can through one
>dealer, but another? Why the hell should they care which dealer it goes
>through? The second dealer KNOWS he can't get a certain car in, but tries to
>sell you one anyway? Think about it for a moment... he doesn't get a dime of
>your money until your car actually arrives (unless you're REALLY stupid). Why
>would he waste his time and energy trying to get you to buy a car that he knows
>he can't provide? Especially when you (presumably) made it clear up front that
>you wanted EXACTLY what you wanted? It just doesn't make sense.
>
>> I can't prove it, and I could certainly be wrong but there really
>> isn't anything to do about it but try for another color and give them
>> another week or two.
>
>Tell the dealer if he REALLY wants to make the sale, he can take a couple grand
>off the price and give you the silver or some other color, and then you can take
>that money and just have the thing repainted.

Good points but I don't think I can get much off the price. Too much
demand. I asked for a cargo net and cover but we'll see. The silver
looks pretty nice but the Orange was even better. They had a silver
non-sport 5-speed and offered me that one but I want the sport. And
while I love manual transmissions, I had a bad experience a few years
back and I think those days are done.

I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

dgk

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:31:50 GMT, Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com>
wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:27:31 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dgk wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:29:25 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>>>><elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com>,
>>>>>dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>>>>>>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>>>>>>switch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why?
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you even know what "bait and switch" is? Or are you just another
>>>>>ignoramus who's not getting what he wants in the world, and has to have
>>>>>someone to blame something horrific on?
>>>>
>>>>Wow, you're a pretty nasty guy. I'm glad that I don't actually have to
>>>>deal with you in real life.
>>>>
>>>
>>>you need to learn how to understand what elmo's actually telling you.
>>>otherwise you'll be the loser in virtually every negotiation you ever
>>>have. read elmo's post again - what he's saying is:
>>>
>>>1. it's not bait & switch
>>>2. you're not a victim unless you want to be.
>>>
>>>the likely scenario, and the logical one if you bother to think about
>>>it, is that the dealer's having trouble sourcing what you ordered, but
>>>because of the delay is offering you an alternative. therefore, you now
>>>have two options:
>>>
>>>i. keep on waiting, or
>>>ii. settle for a different color.
>>>
>>>if you somehow misinterpret that as "bait & switch", it's your
>>>[in]ability to deal with the situation that's the problem and you're
>>>going to end up feeling screwed whatever the outcome.
>>>
>>>get real, pay attention, make a decision and stick to it. assert what
>>>you want and keep on asserting it until you get it. bleating about
>>>being a victim before anything actually happens means you already are one.
>>
>>
>> More information needed. Bait and switch literally means just drawing
>> you in to shop but not having what was advertised. However, allowing a
>> customer to order something knowing that it isn't going to come in is
>> even worse.
>
>Yes, but unless the dealer advertised an orange Fit, it's not bait-and-switch.
>
>As for your other assertion, you would have to prove that the dealer KNEW an
>orange Fit would never be available. In fact, from other tales here, he may
>have fully believed and expected he could get you one in orange... and it's
>Honda that hasn't come through. Jumping all over the dealer prematurely is just
>ignorant and immature.
>
>> I went to another Honda dealer before using this one, and the first
>> dealer came up with a price of $19,000 before tax. I said that I
>> wouldn't pay over MSRP and she said that other dealers can't get the
>> car but they can. I didn't really believe her but now I do. I think my
>> current dealer did know that it was unlikely that I would get what I
>> ordered.
>
>Now you're getting into conspiracy theories. Honda will sell you can through one
>dealer, but another? Why the hell should they care which dealer it goes
>through? The second dealer KNOWS he can't get a certain car in, but tries to
>sell you one anyway? Think about it for a moment... he doesn't get a dime of
>your money until your car actually arrives (unless you're REALLY stupid). Why
>would he waste his time and energy trying to get you to buy a car that he knows
>he can't provide? Especially when you (presumably) made it clear up front that
>you wanted EXACTLY what you wanted? It just doesn't make sense.
>
>> I can't prove it, and I could certainly be wrong but there really
>> isn't anything to do about it but try for another color and give them
>> another week or two.
>
>Tell the dealer if he REALLY wants to make the sale, he can take a couple grand
>off the price and give you the silver or some other color, and then you can take
>that money and just have the thing repainted.

Good points but I don't think I can get much off the price. Too much
demand. I asked for a cargo net and cover but we'll see. The silver
looks pretty nice but the Orange was even better. They had a silver
non-sport 5-speed and offered me that one but I want the sport. And
while I love manual transmissions, I had a bad experience a few years
back and I think those days are done.

I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

Matt Ion

dgk wrote:

> I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
> ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
> and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
> drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

I once blew out my left knee - folded my leg right back the wrong way. Had a
4-speed GLC at the time. To shift, I had to basically just rest my left foot on
the clutch, then push down on my knee with my left hand while shifting with the
right. That wasn't fun.

> Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

Good luck...

Matt Ion

dgk wrote:

> I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
> ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
> and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
> drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

I once blew out my left knee - folded my leg right back the wrong way. Had a
4-speed GLC at the time. To shift, I had to basically just rest my left foot on
the clutch, then push down on my knee with my left hand while shifting with the
right. That wasn't fun.

> Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

Good luck...

Matt Ion

dgk wrote:

> I was away with a large group of friends and managed to break an
> ankle. Out of thirty people there, only one girl could drive a stick,
> and she wasn't too good at it. Since my Significant Other also can't
> drive one, it would seem like a bad idea.

I once blew out my left knee - folded my leg right back the wrong way. Had a
4-speed GLC at the time. To shift, I had to basically just rest my left foot on
the clutch, then push down on my knee with my left hand while shifting with the
right. That wasn't fun.

> Well, two weeks and the car comes or it doesn't.

Good luck...

Gordon McGrew

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:39:19 -0400, dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:

>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
>Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
>I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
>put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
>now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
>around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

If the rust is that bad, I don't think you are risking much to delay
changing the belt.

If all you need to do is pick a different color, then I would say the
dealer is acting in good faith. If he can't seem to produce a Fit of
any color, I would be suspicious. How long did he tell you to expect
for delivery when you ordered a month ago?

I think the production is low on the Fit and demand is high. Delays
in delivery and dealer markups are common. If he is really selling
them at MSRP, he may have a long line.

Gordon McGrew

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:39:19 -0400, dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:

>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
>Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
>I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
>put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
>now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
>around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

If the rust is that bad, I don't think you are risking much to delay
changing the belt.

If all you need to do is pick a different color, then I would say the
dealer is acting in good faith. If he can't seem to produce a Fit of
any color, I would be suspicious. How long did he tell you to expect
for delivery when you ordered a month ago?

I think the production is low on the Fit and demand is high. Delays
in delivery and dealer markups are common. If he is really selling
them at MSRP, he may have a long line.

Gordon McGrew

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:39:19 -0400, dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote:

>Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
>to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
>switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
>Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
>I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
>put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
>now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
>around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

If the rust is that bad, I don't think you are risking much to delay
changing the belt.

If all you need to do is pick a different color, then I would say the
dealer is acting in good faith. If he can't seem to produce a Fit of
any color, I would be suspicious. How long did he tell you to expect
for delivery when you ordered a month ago?

I think the production is low on the Fit and demand is high. Delays
in delivery and dealer markups are common. If he is really selling
them at MSRP, he may have a long line.

Skippy

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com...
> Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
> to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
> switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
> Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
> I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
> put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
> now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
> around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

Sorry to hear. See what you can get now or hold out for the orange. The
darker silver is good!

If you sell the Accord and hire something, make sure it's not a Honda. That
way you'll really appreciate the Fit when it arrives! Worth the wait.

Skippy

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com...
> Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
> to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
> switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
> Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
> I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
> put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
> now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
> around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

Sorry to hear. See what you can get now or hold out for the orange. The
darker silver is good!

If you sell the Accord and hire something, make sure it's not a Honda. That
way you'll really appreciate the Fit when it arrives! Worth the wait.

Skippy

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:m846e2l9ensc0taubjgliiglmp1um6kra1@4ax.com...
> Bad news from the dealer. It's been a month since ordering and he says
> to try another color (I wanted the orange). I think that it's bait and
> switch. I don't think that they sell Fits at MSRP. I could try the
> Storm Silver Metallic which looks pretty good.
>
> I have to make a decision pretty quickly since I'm going to need to
> put money into my 91 Accord soon. I must change the timing belt (I'm
> now at 94,000) and it needs so much other stuff. I'd do it if the rust
> around the wheel wells wasn't so bad, but it is bad.

Sorry to hear. See what you can get now or hold out for the orange. The
darker silver is good!

If you sell the Accord and hire something, make sure it's not a Honda. That
way you'll really appreciate the Fit when it arrives! Worth the wait.

Dave Garrett

In article <86m6e2l7voo12vtbfu1gp0b92ld8tgamjr@4ax.com>,
dgk@somewhere.com says...

> I went to another Honda dealer before using this one, and the first
> dealer came up with a price of $19,000 before tax. I said that I
> wouldn't pay over MSRP and she said that other dealers can't get the
> car but they can.

$19K? Are those US or Canadian dollars?

From what I've seen of it, I like the Fit a lot, but I'd like it a lot
more if it were at a $13K price point for the Sport model as opposed to
the $16-18K I've seen bandied about. For that kind of cash, I'd be
looking at a new Civic or a pre-owned Accord.

And yes, I know the Fit addresses requirements that a Civic or an Accord
do not (cargo space, fuel economy), but if I were seriously considering
a Fit now, I'd have to take a hard look at how much of a premium I'm
willing to pay for those requirements, and what other makes out there
would be potential alternatives for less money. As others have pointed
out, the situation will probably be different in a year or two when Fits
are more numerous on dealer lots.

Dave

Dave Garrett

In article <86m6e2l7voo12vtbfu1gp0b92ld8tgamjr@4ax.com>,
dgk@somewhere.com says...

> I went to another Honda dealer before using this one, and the first
> dealer came up with a price of $19,000 before tax. I said that I
> wouldn't pay over MSRP and she said that other dealers can't get the
> car but they can.

$19K? Are those US or Canadian dollars?

From what I've seen of it, I like the Fit a lot, but I'd like it a lot
more if it were at a $13K price point for the Sport model as opposed to
the $16-18K I've seen bandied about. For that kind of cash, I'd be
looking at a new Civic or a pre-owned Accord.

And yes, I know the Fit addresses requirements that a Civic or an Accord
do not (cargo space, fuel economy), but if I were seriously considering
a Fit now, I'd have to take a hard look at how much of a premium I'm
willing to pay for those requirements, and what other makes out there
would be potential alternatives for less money. As others have pointed
out, the situation will probably be different in a year or two when Fits
are more numerous on dealer lots.

Dave