Space Chimp

Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
itself, and
of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
destination
charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on
ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or
other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)

When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears
from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this
month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback?
Thanks!

Bert Hyman

SC@nospam.com (Space Chimp) wrote in
news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

> Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
> "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola?

Just tell 'em you don't want the junk, mean it, and be prepared to
walk away.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

Reggie Dunlop

"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
> itself, and
> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
> destination
> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer
> add-on
> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings
> or
> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>
> When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
> Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
> "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears
> from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this
> month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback?
> Thanks!
>

As Nancy Reagan advised, Just Say No.

In Georgia, the new car dealers all have a "Documentation/Title" line
preprinted on the sales form with an amount between $295 and $595 in the $
column also preprinted. They tell you, that's part of the contract, it can't
be changed and it's to get the title for you.

Well horse hockey. Take the form, draw a line through that entry, initial it
and hand the paper back to the sales weasel.

Tell him that after your check clears, you want the Manufacturer's Statement
of Origin (MSO). In Georgia, you take the MSO to the DMV office, hand them
$18 and they mail you the title in a week or two. Next you take the bill of
sale to the tag office five them about $10 and they hand you your nice new
tag. You do have to bolt it onto the car yourself though ;-)

So much for high dollar "documentation" fees. If the dealer won't agree to
that approach, politely thank the man for his time and the test drive-- then
get up and leave.

My experience has been that somewhere between their front door and where
your car is in their parking lot, the sales guy will come chasing out after
you and tell you the sales manager has reconsidered.....

SMS

Space Chimp wrote:
> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
> itself, and
> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
> destination
> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on
> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or
> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)

It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like
"doc fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it
is non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can
come up with all sorts of creative names.

Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer
price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just
add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's
really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords.

What state are you in?

AJ Lake

"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote:

>When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
>Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
>"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola?

I usually dicker for the bottom line price and let them fill in the
blanks. Course you have to do your homework to keep from being screwed
(too badly). In you case though, if you don't like the deal just walk
and see what happens. If their profit is great enough they will knock
the amount off. If not they will let you walk. You can always walk
back later (don't wait too long) and pay the price if you love the car
badly enough...

HLS

Find the car you want, then negociate for the bottom line price.
Dont stop with one dealer. Some are probably hungrier to make
a sale than others.

You can get some ideas of what the car SHOULD cost through
some of the magazines or web publications which deal with
auto costs.

A "dealers invoice", by the way, means little or nothing with respect
to the cost of the car.

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> :

>Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
>itself, and
>of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
>destination
>charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
>service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer add-on
>ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings or
>other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>
>When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
>Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
>"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears
>from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this
>month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback?
>Thanks!
>

You're getting ripped off. The only "fee" I paid was the "delivery
fee" and $15 messenger for title. No dealer prep. No rust proofing,
clearcoat protectant, etc.

Space Chimp

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Space Chimp wrote:
>> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
>> itself, and
>> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
>> destination
>> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
>> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer
>> add-on
>> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings
>> or
>> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>
> It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc
> fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is
> non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can come
> up with all sorts of creative names.
>
> Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer
> price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just
> add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's
> really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords.
>
> What state are you in?

I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it
was educational.

Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out
prices:

'08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
'09 Accord EX $24,043

Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
(BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
him already.)

ray

Space Chimp wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Space Chimp wrote:
>>> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
>>> itself, and
>>> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
>>> destination
>>> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
>>> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer
>>> add-on
>>> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings
>>> or
>>> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>> It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc
>> fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is
>> non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can come
>> up with all sorts of creative names.
>>
>> Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer
>> price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just
>> add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's
>> really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords.
>>
>> What state are you in?
>
> I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it
> was educational.
>
> Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out
> prices:
>
> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
> '09 Accord EX $24,043
>
> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
> him already.)
>
>
I've not bought a lot of cars from dealers (mostly beaters) but when I
have bought from a dealer, I bring a calculator. Figure out what I'm
willing to pay for the car, add tax and give THAT to the sales guy. I
don't care if there's $700 in prep, $200 in misc fees, $4300 for a
haircut for the sales manager's dog, as long as the GRAND TOTAL for the
car is equal or less than what I'm willing to pay.

I bought my Subaru that way - they said the $300 doc fee was
non-negotiable, I told them I didn't care as long as the car was no more
than $15k after tax. It came out to $15,080 and that ended up being
close enough - I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced.
(During the first test drive the clutch was slipping so badly I was
wondering if my wife had forgotten how to drive and she was wondering
WTF subaru did with clutches. They replaced the clutch and called me
but now the price was non-negotiable, so I said, "see ya" and walked. A
month later the car was still there and we worked out a price. But, you
have to be willing to walk.)

I have found that listing YOUR price is way easier than when they start
talking "well it's $387 every 9 days for 18 years" because no two
salesguys ever use the same interval, and I just want to know how much
the damn car costs. Was car shopping with my mom a couple of years ago
and she wanted to look at a new Hyundai Accent (blech) and it took 45
flipping minutes to answer this question "How much is the sticker price
on THIS car?" Needless to say she didn't buy it...and not just because
Hyundai sucks.

Ray

Space Chimp

"ray" <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:SWwCk.32541$rV4.10629@newsfe03.iad...
>> I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it
>> was educational.
>>
>> Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out
>> prices:
>>
>> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
>> '09 Accord EX $24,043
>>
>> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
>> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
>> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
>> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
>> him already.)
> I've not bought a lot of cars from dealers (mostly beaters) but when I
> have bought from a dealer, I bring a calculator. Figure out what I'm
> willing to pay for the car, add tax and give THAT to the sales guy. I
> don't care if there's $700 in prep, $200 in misc fees, $4300 for a haircut
> for the sales manager's dog, as long as the GRAND TOTAL for the car is
> equal or less than what I'm willing to pay.
>
> I bought my Subaru that way - they said the $300 doc fee was
> non-negotiable, I told them I didn't care as long as the car was no more
> than $15k after tax. It came out to $15,080 and that ended up being close
> enough

Yeah, and isn't it strange how the total came out just a wee bit
over you max price.... Well, let me quack about what happened
to me at the dealership.

Wife and I got there, and loved the black '08 Accord EX so much that
we decided that was the boy we wanted. The salesman mentioned
that we were getting some good stuff for free since it had a great
looking spoiler, along with some pin striping. The car was a beaut,
there's no doubt about it. I drove it; drove great as expected.
We go to his little office, I fill out form, and even write out
the check for the quoted amount. Weellllllll, the salesman then
walks into another office, and stays awhile. Another dude
soon shows. I'm beginning to smell the old-style bait
and switch routine. And surely be, there was a bit
of a problem. The young dude tells me that there was a
misunderstanding and that THAT car (because of spoiler
and pin striping) could not be sold at that price. It was
just a mistake understand. He then told me they could get
an identical car (w/o spoiler and pin striping) from a sister
dlship in about two hours, and when he saw I was putting
away my checkbook and beginning to walk, he added they
would knock off $200 more for my trouble. Truth is,
I don't think that would've been a bad deal for me at all,
but I was so pissed at their tactic of waiting to tell me this
at the very LAST minute that it made it moot, as far as I
was concerned. We walked. I may well have walked
away from a great deal, but we walked, and we don't
regret it. Do you guys think I made a good decision?
I'm checking with some other dealerships now. These
tactics really cause me to shun them. Maybe I'm too
persnikity or something, but I hate games like this.


- I wanted the car and it had had the clutch replaced.
> (During the first test drive the clutch was slipping so badly I was
> wondering if my wife had forgotten how to drive and she was wondering WTF
> subaru did with clutches. They replaced the clutch and called me but now
> the price was non-negotiable, so I said, "see ya" and walked. A month
> later the car was still there and we worked out a price. But, you have to
> be willing to walk.)
>
> I have found that listing YOUR price is way easier than when they start
> talking "well it's $387 every 9 days for 18 years" because no two
> salesguys ever use the same interval, and I just want to know how much the
> damn car costs. Was car shopping with my mom a couple of years ago and
> she wanted to look at a new Hyundai Accent (blech) and it took 45 flipping
> minutes to answer this question "How much is the sticker price on THIS
> car?" Needless to say she didn't buy it...and not just because Hyundai
> sucks.
>
> Ray

Forrest

"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nv6Ck.38878$bx1.14582@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
> itself, and
> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
> destination
> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer
> add-on
> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special" coatings
> or
> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>
> When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
> Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
> "customer service" fee or any of the other crappola? It appears
> from Edmunds that they are getting $500 from Honda this
> month just for moving an '08 Accord. Any ideas/feedback?
> Thanks!

This reminds me of the movie "Fargo" when a couple were buying a car from a
dealer. William Macy was the salesman and kept pushing undercoating. While
dickering over the car he would say, "let me go check it out with my
manager". He would then go into his office, spit out a howdy and not even
mention the deal and then go back out to the couple and tell them that the
manager said this or that. It was a hoot.

HLS

"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message news:eYxCk.37800

Weellllllll, the salesman then
> walks into another office, and stays awhile. Another dude
> soon shows. I'm beginning to smell the old-style bait
> and switch routine. And surely be, there was a bit
> of a problem. The young dude tells me that there was a
> misunderstanding and that THAT car (because of spoiler
> and pin striping) could not be sold at that price. It was
> just a mistake understand. He then told me they could get
> an identical car (w/o spoiler and pin striping) from a sister
> dlship in about two hours, and when he saw I was putting
> away my checkbook and beginning to walk, he added they
> would knock off $200 more for my trouble. Truth is,
> I don't think that would've been a bad deal for me at all,
> but I was so pissed at their tactic of waiting to tell me this
> at the very LAST minute that it made it moot, as far as I
> was concerned. We walked. Do you guys think I made a good decision?


Depends on the amount of the overrun. That second carpimp was
scamming you. But if it were only a couple hundred bucks or so,
maybe it was a decent deal.

I believe in "principle", but also you have to think in terms of dollars.

I wouldnt be surprised if they called you back in a couple of days
and tried to "make up".

You havent burned any bridges. This is a poker game. Keep a
straight face and keep in the game.

Steve B.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:09:08 -0400, "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com>
wrote:

> These tactics really cause me to shun them. Maybe I'm too
>persnikity or something, but I hate games like this.
>

So do I and I would have walked out as well. If you give in that just
encourages them to do the same thing to the next guy that comes in.

Steve B.

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake AJ Lake <nomail@fakeaddress.com> :

>"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>When all this is added up, the drive-out price ain't too great.
>>Any of you had any experience getting them to waive the
>>"customer service" fee or any of the other crappola?
>
>I usually dicker for the bottom line price and let them fill in the
>blanks. Course you have to do your homework to keep from being screwed
>(too badly). In you case though, if you don't like the deal just walk
>and see what happens. If their profit is great enough they will knock
>the amount off. If not they will let you walk. You can always walk
>back later (don't wait too long) and pay the price if you love the car
>badly enough...

Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers
that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this
is what the check will read".

Nasty trick department: Print the comparison page from Edmunds and
highlight one of the other cars. Put that on the top of the stack in
your folder and take it out while you rummage through the other
papers. Make him sneak a peek with it upside down to him. Sometimes
it works, at the least it tells him you have a solid grasp on what you
are willing to pay.

And always, always walk away when things go south.

SMS

Space Chimp wrote:

> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
> '09 Accord EX $24,043

Presumably that's for the V6, or it's about $2500 too high.

> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
> him already.)

Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
you'll finance, up until the last moment.

Amusing about black being cheaper, as it's the same where I am. They'll
advertise "6 in stock at this price" and they'll all be black, an
they'll try to get $750 more for the other colors (and they'll settle
for $375, at least Autowest Toyota in Fremont would.