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Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>> Tegger wrote: >>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>> >>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>> >>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>> not infallible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>> >>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>> >>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>> plug is not stripped. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>> >>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>> >> >> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. > > > Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>> >>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>> not infallible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>> >>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>> >>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>> >>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>> >>> >>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >> >> >> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. > >so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. I find that NOT hard to believe. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Kf-
dnQm3zq5jAKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: >> > > [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory > oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft > aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a > thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. > I've used the factory washer and torque setting of 33 ft/lbs (45 Nm) for close to ten years now. The six years prior to that I mostly used a fiber washer and 20 ft/lbs. My suspicion is that oil pan thread stripping is due to /severe/ overtightening, not adherence to the factory setting. I also suspect the factory beefed up the threads on pans made after 1991 by using a slightly heavier gauge of steel for the thread insert. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>> >>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>> >>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>> >>>> >>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>> >>> >>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >> >> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. > > Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. > I find that NOT hard to believe. "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with you too. which explains everything! |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 06:57 AM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Kf- > dnQm3zq5jAKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > > >>> >> >> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >> > > > > I've used the factory washer and torque setting of 33 ft/lbs (45 Nm) for > close to ten years now. The six years prior to that I mostly used a fiber > washer and 20 ft/lbs. > > My suspicion is that oil pan thread stripping is due to /severe/ > overtightening, not adherence to the factory setting. in my opinion, 45 N.m is over-tightening. two reasons: 1. the oil pan is a relatively soft material - it has to be to be formed out of a single piece of steel like that. torque near yield, plus thermal cycling loads - too close for my comfort. 2. the annealed aluminum washer starts out pretty much as soft as the fiber washer - it seals by deformation filling all the crevices, not by compression as such. bottom line - once it's deformed enough to seal, it doesn't need to be deformed any more. torque similar to the fiber washer is sufficient. > > I also suspect the factory beefed up the threads on pans made after 1991 by > using a slightly heavier gauge of steel for the thread insert. i'm not sure most of them even have a thread insert. if they did, it could indeed be a stronger material and higher torque, but that's not the point - the point is that torque only needs to be sufficient to cause washer deformation sufficient to seal - and to provide sufficient friction to prevent loosening. anything over that is excess. honda have specified a mechanical load torque on a non-mechanical load fastener. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>> >>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>> >>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >> >> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >> I find that NOT hard to believe. > >"you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? > >on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >you too. which explains everything! Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any longer. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote:
> > Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your > opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry > on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself > happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any > longer. You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:36:32 -0400, Brian Smith
<Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote: >On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >> >> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >> longer. > > You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. You're right. Still hope he PLONKS me first. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 09:27 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>>> >>>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >>> >>> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >>> I find that NOT hard to believe. >> >> "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? >> >> on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >> problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >> you too. which explains everything! > > > Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your > opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry > on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself > happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any > longer. i have a better solution: you stop flaunting your willful ignorance, then see what kind a reaction you get. think about it. if you can. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 09:36 AM, Brian Smith wrote:
> On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >> >> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >> longer. > > You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. he's not that smart. especially since he couldn't figure it out from my "killfile" post several messages back. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 10:06 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:36:32 -0400, Brian Smith > <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote: > >> On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>> longer. >> >> You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. > > > You're right. Still hope he PLONKS me first. why? because your retardation is /my/ fault? |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
Brian Smith wrote:
> On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >> >> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >> longer. > > You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. That is what I did, but I still see his postings when other people reply to him. It cuts the number down, however, as nobody can respond to all of his postings. Most people have this thing called a life. "Guy", you are correct, there is something wrong with a person like him who spends this much time online with the primary purpose of abusing people through his very high number of postings. I am guessing that he does not talk to people like that face-to-face, as he would have been taken out long ago, or he would have at least received a beating of sufficient ferocity to change his attitude. Get ready for a failed attempt at a witty and abusive response to this from Jim Beam. I have no idea how many responses he sent into my killfile to never be seen, but I have to admit, I hope that they were numerous and even longer than this posting. Pat |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 08:32 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<GISdnc2cbrfHi6PWnZ2dnUVZ_sIAAAAA@speakeasy .net>, > jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >>> Have fun with your shiny new $25,000 toy. >> >> this is the piece of psychology that always completely blows my mind - >> the bit where people can spend a bunch of dough, then completely >> disregard what they put it into. if they had a suitcase with $25,000 in >> hundreds, would they toss it out of a moving car with the lid open and >> watch the notes get blown away in the wind? of course not. > > Some would, and then you'd see a blog entry on The Consumerist about how > Samsonite bags suck and they wouldn't even take the owner's phone call > about how Samsonite owes him $25,000 because his bag didn't prevent the > bills from leaving the opened suitcase. doubtless, others would respond agreeing. especially if someone had the temerity to point out that our blogger was in fact at fault, because we should all stand about and hug and endorse stupidity, not actually try to learn something. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam wrote:
> On 01/01/2010 08:32 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> In article<GISdnc2cbrfHi6PWnZ2dnUVZ_sIAAAAA@speakeasy .net>, >> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>>> Have fun with your shiny new $25,000 toy. >>> >>> this is the piece of psychology that always completely blows my mind - >>> the bit where people can spend a bunch of dough, then completely >>> disregard what they put it into. if they had a suitcase with $25,000 in >>> hundreds, would they toss it out of a moving car with the lid open and >>> watch the notes get blown away in the wind? of course not. >> >> Some would, and then you'd see a blog entry on The Consumerist about how >> Samsonite bags suck and they wouldn't even take the owner's phone call >> about how Samsonite owes him $25,000 because his bag didn't prevent the >> bills from leaving the opened suitcase. > > doubtless, others would respond agreeing. especially if someone had the > temerity to point out that our blogger was in fact at fault, because we > should all stand about and hug and endorse stupidity, not actually try > to learn something. > > Try this on for size: <http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=105876> |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 10:45 AM, News wrote:
> jim beam wrote: >> On 01/01/2010 08:32 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> In article<GISdnc2cbrfHi6PWnZ2dnUVZ_sIAAAAA@speakeasy .net>, >>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>>> Have fun with your shiny new $25,000 toy. >>>> >>>> this is the piece of psychology that always completely blows my mind - >>>> the bit where people can spend a bunch of dough, then completely >>>> disregard what they put it into. if they had a suitcase with $25,000 in >>>> hundreds, would they toss it out of a moving car with the lid open and >>>> watch the notes get blown away in the wind? of course not. >>> >>> Some would, and then you'd see a blog entry on The Consumerist about how >>> Samsonite bags suck and they wouldn't even take the owner's phone call >>> about how Samsonite owes him $25,000 because his bag didn't prevent the >>> bills from leaving the opened suitcase. >> >> doubtless, others would respond agreeing. especially if someone had >> the temerity to point out that our blogger was in fact at fault, >> because we should all stand about and hug and endorse stupidity, not >> actually try to learn something. >> >> > > > Try this on for size: > <http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=105876> yup, just like that. my current amusement is people trying to sell cars on craigslist, cheap, "no title". one guy i spoke with didn't have title because he'd gotten a loan on the vehicle and had handed over title as security. so legally, it wasn't his to sell, it was the loan company's!!! i'm sure he found some dumbass willing to give him money. let's wait and see what kind of victim bullshit /that/ will produce on consumerist. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:29:50 -0600, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote: >Brian Smith wrote: >> On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>> longer. >> >> You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. > >That is what I did, but I still see his postings when other people reply >to him. >It cuts the number down, however, as nobody can respond to all of his >postings. Most people have this thing called a life. > >"Guy", you are correct, there is something wrong with a person like him >who spends this much time online with the primary purpose of abusing >people through his very high number of postings. > >I am guessing that he does not talk to people like that face-to-face, as >he would have been taken out long ago, or he would have at least >received a beating of sufficient ferocity to change his attitude. > >Get ready for a failed attempt at a witty and abusive response to this >from Jim Beam. I have no idea how many responses he sent into my >killfile to never be seen, but I have to admit, I hope that they were >numerous and even longer than this posting. > >Pat Thanks Pat. It's reassuring. You know the sad thing is we're just talking about a car. Can you imagine if we were talking about religion or politics ? |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:09:49 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/02/2010 09:27 AM, Guy wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>>>> >>>>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >>>> >>>> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >>>> I find that NOT hard to believe. >>> >>> "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? >>> >>> on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >>> problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >>> you too. which explains everything! >> >> >> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >> longer. > >i have a better solution: you stop flaunting your willful ignorance, >then see what kind a reaction you get. think about it. if you can. Wow. Do you feel better when you talk like this? |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:
>I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >What is the proper way? > >I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. Follow the manual and the minder. They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on your driving habits, before the minder says hello. That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not like the car grinds to a halt at that point! J. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 10:59 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:29:50 -0600, pws<pwshelton@austin.rr.com> > wrote: > >> Brian Smith wrote: >>> On 1/2/2010 1:27 PM, Guy wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>>> longer. >>> >>> You have to "plonk" him to avoid seeing his posts. >> >> That is what I did, but I still see his postings when other people reply >> to him. >> It cuts the number down, however, as nobody can respond to all of his >> postings. Most people have this thing called a life. >> >> "Guy", you are correct, there is something wrong with a person like him >> who spends this much time online with the primary purpose of abusing >> people through his very high number of postings. >> >> I am guessing that he does not talk to people like that face-to-face, as >> he would have been taken out long ago, or he would have at least >> received a beating of sufficient ferocity to change his attitude. >> >> Get ready for a failed attempt at a witty and abusive response to this >>from Jim Beam. I have no idea how many responses he sent into my >> killfile to never be seen, but I have to admit, I hope that they were >> numerous and even longer than this posting. >> >> Pat > > > Thanks Pat. It's reassuring. > You know the sad thing is we're just talking about a car. Can you > imagine if we were talking about religion or politics ? "just a car", and not the $25,000 you just paid for it! tell us guy - is there a financial threshold for stupidity? is it ok to be willfully ignorant for stuff below $25,001, but not above it? how about if someone else is willfully ignorant with your $25k for you? what if someone put sugar in your gas tank? that could cost about the same to fix as willful ignorance of the owners manual. or is there a difference between someone else doing something dumb and you doing something dumb? |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 11:04 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:09:49 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/02/2010 09:27 AM, Guy wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>>>>> >>>>>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >>>>> >>>>> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >>>>> I find that NOT hard to believe. >>>> >>>> "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? >>>> >>>> on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >>>> problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >>>> you too. which explains everything! >>> >>> >>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>> longer. >> >> i have a better solution: you stop flaunting your willful ignorance, >> then see what kind a reaction you get. think about it. if you can. > > Wow. Do you feel better when you talk like this? do you have /no/ logical thought capability??? |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam wrote:
> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this: > solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no > lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller > particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic remover > of friction. I think you need to re-think this one. A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean oil?? LOL! I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid>
wrote: >On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote: > >>I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>What is the proper way? >> >>I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. > >Follow the manual and the minder. > >They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >your driving habits, before the minder says hello. > >That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. > >Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >like the car grinds to a halt at that point! > >J. > > Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read the manual regardless but I really wanted to know how others drove their newer cars especially for breakin. I imagine my CR-V tho not an EX will seem like a EX compared to my Accord LX of 7 years ago so I'll have to get used to the extra bells and whistles. Anyway, thanks for the straight advice and without the accusations. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:13:02 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/02/2010 11:04 AM, Guy wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:09:49 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/02/2010 09:27 AM, Guy wrote: >>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>>>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>>>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>>>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >>>>>> I find that NOT hard to believe. >>>>> >>>>> "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? >>>>> >>>>> on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >>>>> problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >>>>> you too. which explains everything! >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>>> longer. >>> >>> i have a better solution: you stop flaunting your willful ignorance, >>> then see what kind a reaction you get. think about it. if you can. >> >> Wow. Do you feel better when you talk like this? > >do you have /no/ logical thought capability??? Gosh you are so intellectual and I bet it shows to the rest. Go ahead and reply so I can have something to laugh at today and I'll do my best to let you have the last word. That way you can have a higher opinion of yourself. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote:
> jim beam wrote: > > >> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this: >> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no >> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller >> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic >> remover of friction. > > I think you need to re-think this one. > A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean > oil?? LOL! the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have a problem. > I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do > you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load. you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition, means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> > wrote: > >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >> >>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>> What is the proper way? >>> >>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >> >> Follow the manual and the minder. >> >> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >> >> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >> >> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >> >> J. >> >> > > Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read > the manual you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. > regardless but I really wanted to know how others drove > their newer cars especially for breakin. I imagine my CR-V tho not > an EX will seem like a EX compared to my Accord LX of 7 years ago so > I'll have to get used to the extra bells and whistles. Anyway, > thanks for the straight advice and without the accusations. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 11:46 AM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:13:02 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/02/2010 11:04 AM, Guy wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:09:49 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/02/2010 09:27 AM, Guy wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:11:21 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>>>>>>>>>>> not infallible. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ain't that the truth. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>>>>>>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>>>>>>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>>>>>>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>>>>>>>>>>> plug is not stripped. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >>>>>>>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >>>>>>>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >>>>>>>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >>>>>>>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >>>>>>>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >>>>>>>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >>>>>>>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't. >>>>>>> I find that NOT hard to believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> "you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"??? >>>>>> >>>>>> on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out" >>>>>> problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with >>>>>> you too. which explains everything! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for giving me the best word to describe what I think of your >>>>> opinion now... "garbage". People disagree but when some people carry >>>>> on the way you do, they have something wrong. Why not make yourself >>>>> happy and PLONK me so I don't have to see your "garbage" posts any >>>>> longer. >>>> >>>> i have a better solution: you stop flaunting your willful ignorance, >>>> then see what kind a reaction you get. think about it. if you can. >>> >>> Wow. Do you feel better when you talk like this? >> >> do you have /no/ logical thought capability??? > > > Gosh you are so intellectual and I bet it shows to the rest. Go ahead > and reply so I can have something to laugh at today and I'll do my > best to let you have the last word. That way you can have a higher > opinion of yourself. you - just - don't - get - it. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>> What is the proper way? >>>> >>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>> >>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>> >>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>> >>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>> >>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>> >>> J. >>> >>> >> >> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >> the manual > >you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >/not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. > > Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. But I guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 1/2/2010 2:06 PM, Guy wrote:
> > You're right. Still hope he PLONKS me first. LOL! |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 1/2/2010 2:29 PM, pws wrote:
> > That is what I did, but I still see his postings when other people reply > to him. > It cuts the number down, however, as nobody can respond to all of his > postings. Most people have this thing called a life. That's a small price to pay for peace and quiet and the enviable "No Jim Zone". :^) |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>>> What is the proper way? >>>>> >>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>>> >>>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>>> >>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>>> >>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>>> >>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>>> >>>> J. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >>> the manual >> >> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. >> >> > > Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i should have realized. > But I > guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and > impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! idiot. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>>>> What is the proper way? >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>>>> >>>>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>>>> >>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>>>> >>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>>>> >>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>>>> >>>>> J. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >>>> the manual >>> >>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. >>> >>> >> >> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. > >so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i >should have realized. > > >> But I >> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and >> impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! > >idiot. Impressive ... |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>>>>> What is the proper way? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>>>>> >>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>>>>> >>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>>>>> >>>>>> J. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >>>>> the manual >>>> >>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. >> >> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i >> should have realized. >> >> >>> But I >>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and >>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! >> >> idiot. > > Impressive ... what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/ but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:15CdnfSA16hZ7aLWnZ2dnUVZ_tIAAAAA@speakeasy.ne t: > On 01/02/2010 06:57 AM, Tegger wrote: >> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Kf- > > in my opinion, 45 N.m is over-tightening. two reasons: > > 1. the oil pan is a relatively soft material - it has to be to be > formed out of a single piece of steel like that. torque near yield, > plus thermal cycling loads - too close for my comfort. The threads that form the drain plug hole are not made of the same piece of steel as the pan. The drain hole threads are punched into a small rectangle of much thicker metal that's spot-welded to the inside of the pan. Check your oil pan (or find a loose engine in a wrecking yard and pull the pan off that). On either side of the drain hole, you'll find two small spot welds. These are the welds that hold the rectangle of metal in place. When you look at that rectangle from the inside of the pan, you can plainly see that it's made of much thicker steel than the pan itself. Honda (or its supplier) punches the hole in the rectangle, threads it, the welds it to the pan. The threaded rectangle on my original pan and the one on the new pan (installed 1994) were definitely of different thicknesses, with the new one being thicker. I believe Honda has changed the pans since 1991, and that's why we don't hear of stripped drain plugs nearly as often as we used to ten years ago. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Y5ednS-
zJe1JPqLWnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote: >> jim beam wrote: >> >> >>> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this: >>> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no >>> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller >>> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic >>> remover of friction. >> >> I think you need to re-think this one. >> A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean >> oil?? LOL! > > the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not > metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have > a problem. True, and much of that will be soot (about 1 micron in size). > > >> I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do >> you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load. > > you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition, > means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces > apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic. > The integrity of the thin part of the "oil wedge" is the key to lubricant effectiveness in protecting those hydrodynamic bearings. The thin part of the wedge is thin indeed, and contaminant particles must be small enough that they are smaller than the wedge, otherwise abrasion will occur. Consider that crankshaft main-bearing-to-journal clearance is on the order of 25-50 microns. The thickness of the thin part of the wedge will be less than that. I've read that a common automotive oil filter efficiency is about 30 microns, so you haven't got much there before wear occurs in the presence of metallic particles. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:56:43 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote: >>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>>>>>> What is the proper way? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> J. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >>>>>> the manual >>>>> >>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. >>> >>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i >>> should have realized. >>> >>> >>>> But I >>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and >>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! >>> >>> idiot. >> >> Impressive ... > >what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this >http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/ > >but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it. Usually what I'm about to say uses the word "screws" but in your case considering your last name and your posts in this thread, there is no doubt to us normal people you are missing or have some loose bolts. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:41:26 -0600, "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:56:43 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote: > >>On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, JRStern<JRStern@foobar.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly. >>>>>>>>> What is the proper way? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best >>>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and >>>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably >>>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on >>>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different >>>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder >>>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other >>>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed. >>>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then, >>>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not >>>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> J. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read >>>>>>> the manual >>>>>> >>>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy. >>>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify >>>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick. >>>> >>>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i >>>> should have realized. >>>> >>>> >>>>> But I >>>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and >>>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now ! >>>> >>>> idiot. >>> >>> Impressive ... >> >>what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this >>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/ >> >>but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it. > > >Usually what I'm about to say uses the word "screws" but in your case >considering your last name and your posts in this thread, there is no >doubt to us normal people you are missing or have some loose bolts. Actually you might be missing some nuts and bolts.... how appropriate it fits the name and the type person at the same time. |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/02/2010 02:25 PM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Y5ednS- > zJe1JPqLWnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net: > >> On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote: >>> jim beam wrote: >>> >>> >>>> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this: >>>> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no >>>> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller >>>> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic >>>> remover of friction. >>> >>> I think you need to re-think this one. >>> A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean >>> oil?? LOL! >> >> the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not >> metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have >> a problem. > > > > > True, and much of that will be soot (about 1 micron in size). > > > >> >> >>> I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do >>> you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load. >> >> you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition, >> means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces >> apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic. >> > > > > The integrity of the thin part of the "oil wedge" is the key to lubricant > effectiveness in protecting those hydrodynamic bearings. mostly, yes. for illustration, poke about here: http://www.tribology-abc.com/sub11.htm > > The thin part of the wedge is thin indeed, and contaminant particles must > be small enough that they are smaller than the wedge, otherwise abrasion > will occur. > > Consider that crankshaft main-bearing-to-journal clearance is on the order > of 25-50 microns. The thickness of the thin part of the wedge will be less > than that. I've read that a common automotive oil filter efficiency is > about 30 microns, so you haven't got much there before wear occurs in the > presence of metallic particles. > but metallics are a small proportion. and /some/ metallics can be beneficial - the soft ones like brass and lead for instance. regarding particle size: http://mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html i need to refresh my memory on typical hydrodynamic separations for journal bearings, but typical filtered oil particle size really isn't a problem. quickly googling, i find this! powder separated journal bearings?!!! whoda thunk... http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/serv...ifs=yes&ref=no |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>, > "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote: > >> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and >> still no problems. > > hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty > self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right > turns, it was time to add more oil. Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+ (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket... JT |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
The book that comes with the car does talk about additional servicing
requirements in special circumstances 0- that may help. Honestly you'd be better sticking to a dealer, standard servicing and the oil Honda recommends The CRV uses long life fluids (including coolant and PAS) so ensure that IF you need to top anything up use the Honda stuff If you care about the car then there's the usual advice - check fluids regularly, don't thrash a cold engine and no VERY heavy braking for a few thousand miles, give it a polish before winter and clean salt off the "chassis" "Grumpy AuContraire" <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message news:ieCdnVqMq_J6it3WnZ2dnUVZ_uRi4p2d@giganews.com ... > Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>, >> "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote: >> >>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and >>> still no problems. >> >> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty >> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right >> turns, it was time to add more oil. > > > Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of > my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+ > (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket... > > JT > |
Re: new Honda CR-V break in
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:26:55 -0000, "thomas"
<toooommygin@retardedloony.com> wrote: >The book that comes with the car does talk about additional servicing >requirements in special circumstances 0- that may help. > >Honestly you'd be better sticking to a dealer, standard servicing and the >oil Honda recommends > >The CRV uses long life fluids (including coolant and PAS) so ensure that IF >you need to top anything up use the Honda stuff > >If you care about the car then there's the usual advice - check fluids >regularly, don't thrash a cold engine and no VERY heavy braking for a few >thousand miles, give it a polish before winter and clean salt off the >"chassis" >"Grumpy AuContraire" <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message >news:ieCdnVqMq_J6it3WnZ2dnUVZ_uRi4p2d@giganews.co m... >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>, >>> "Guy" <void@void.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and >>>> still no problems. >>> >>> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty >>> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right >>> turns, it was time to add more oil. >> >> >> Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of >> my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+ >> (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket... >> >> JT >> Thanks Thomas. I'll follow all you say except maybe the last part <g>. Where I live, we don't get snow but every 5 to 10 years but where I used to live, almost every year so I know what you mean by salt. I guess I'll buy some Honda products (fluids) to store around the garage. |
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