Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

In article <C020872A.EFF78%epmeyer50@msn.com>, epmeyer50@msn.com says...

>I think it must be part of Costco's normal advice. I bought tires there for
>my Acura once and they told me I should get an alignment prior to ever
>seeing the car. I think it is probably a safe assumption that the vast
>majority of cars need an alignment by the time they need tires.

Not true. I've owned cars that didn't need an alignment until suspension parts
were changed.
--------------
Alex

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

And I've seen cars out of alignment from the factory.


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub...l_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/



"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:dtfj98$nr5$12@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> In article <C020872A.EFF78%epmeyer50@msn.com>, epmeyer50@msn.com says...
>
>>I think it must be part of Costco's normal advice. I bought tires there
>>for
>>my Acura once and they told me I should get an alignment prior to ever
>>seeing the car. I think it is probably a safe assumption that the vast
>>majority of cars need an alignment by the time they need tires.
>
> Not true. I've owned cars that didn't need an alignment until suspension
> parts
> were changed.
> --------------
> Alex
>

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the
tires.

We have in our shop tires warranted to last 60000... We put them on your car
and in 30,000 miles they are worn out. You come back to the shop and scream
about the tires not living up to your expatiations "You promised they would
last longer" But if you toe was out just a bit and your camber was out just
a bit, then this caused the tires not to last.
You might be able to see on the old tires if there is an issue; but can you
prove it later? We have customers who don't rotate tires as suggested and
wonder why the tires are wearing funny, or why the fronts are bald and the
rears are not.
A week ago we repaired the wheel bearings and put new tires on a local
delivery car; on the test drive the wheel is offcenter and it pulled; he
declined the free alignment check; when he comes back with worn tires in 2
months sure enough it will be our fault.
The alignment is suggested to VALIDATE the tire warranty..
If you say "NO" then the mileage warranty is Void; the same as if you
decline the extended warranty on something you buy.


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub...l_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/




"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:dtfj6r$nr5$11@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> In article <dFyKf.46768$id5.13445@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> hansensw@hotmail.com says...
>
>>As much as I hate to admit it Costco is right. An alignment is to tell you
>>and the tire seller that your car is within specs and should not wear the
>>tires prematurely.
>
> No they are not. Cars don't spontanteously go out of alignment. If your
> prior
> set of tires wore evenly across the tread, there is no reason to believe
> you
> need to get an alignment just because you bought new tires. It is a waste
> of
> time and money.
>
>>If in 15000 miles you notice the tires have wear on the
>>inside edge and are now considered unsafe, then the seller may say too
>>bad.
>
> As it should be since uneven wear is usually caused by something other
> than a
> defective tire.
>
>>OTOH, if you can prove your car didn't wear out the tires, then your
>>challenging the tire manufactures mileage warranty.
>
> If you get an alignment when you buy the new tires, it doesn't prove
> anything
> except that the car was properly aligned when you left the garage. You
> could
> hit a pothole that throws your car out of alignment on the way home for
> the
> mechanics.
>
>>Firestone offers a lifetime alignment, and using this I have seen several
>>customers get new tires at 20000 miles because the tires were suppose to
>>last 40000 AND because they were in every 6 month or so keeping up on the
>>alignment the ball was in there court (so to say)
>
> Tires that wear out prematurely becuase of poor alignment are easy to spot
> because the wear is uneven. So getting your alignment checked regularly
> is not necessary. The lifetime alignment is used by some places to try to
> sell you more services. When you bring your car in to get checked, they
> always find something else that needs attention.
> ------------
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

In article <1140453738.851927.153720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
Ark321@juno.com says...

>BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of
>tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French)
>Uniroyal HRs.

I have. These weren't crappy super hard cheapo rubber rim protector tires
you get at discount auto stores. These were Goodyear Eagle NCT's on a
Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. I got right around 40k miles out of the tires. I think
the long life is attributable to a light weight car, (~2200lbs) on relatively
wide (195mm) tires.
---------------
Alex

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

In article <QbLKf.440165$qk4.321389@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
hansensw@hotmail.com says...

>You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the
>tires.

It is about the car and the tires. A poorly aligned car will not handle
properly, which is dangerous.

>The alignment is suggested to VALIDATE the tire warranty..
>If you say "NO" then the mileage warranty is Void; the same as if you
>decline the extended warranty on something you buy.

If that is the case, then the tire warranty should clearly state it.


I never buy tires because of a wear warranty. Those types of tires tend to be
poor performers. So it is a non-issue for me.
--------------
Alex

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

Stephen:

Out of curiousity - do you see customers who actually get 60,000
million on a set off tires especially front wheel drive cars?

Any brands you prefer? I always had weird stuff with Michelins as they
would seem to attract nails.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

On 2/22/06 12:16 PM, in article dti9pn$qli$5@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu,
"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote:

> In article <1140453738.851927.153720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
> Ark321@juno.com says...
>
>> BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of
>> tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French)
>> Uniroyal HRs.
>
> I have. These weren't crappy super hard cheapo rubber rim protector tires
> you get at discount auto stores. These were Goodyear Eagle NCT's on a
> Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. I got right around 40k miles out of the tires. I think
> the long life is attributable to a light weight car, (~2200lbs) on relatively
> wide (195mm) tires.
> ---------------
> Alex
>

I've gotten at least 40,000 miles off the original tires on every car I've
bought since 1985 (before then - no). The Original equip Michelins on the
2000 TL went 49,000. The original Bridgestones on my 2002 Pathfinder still
have at least one rotation (6,000 miles) left on them at 52,000.

If the OP is only getting 25,000 from tires on a standard sedan, then I
would say more frequent alignments are definitely in order.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

"E Meyer" <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C0224280.F025C%epmeyer50@msn.com...
> I've gotten at least 40,000 miles off the original tires on every car I've
> bought since 1985 (before then - no). The Original equip Michelins on the
> 2000 TL went 49,000. The original Bridgestones on my 2002 Pathfinder
> still
> have at least one rotation (6,000 miles) left on them at 52,000.
>
> If the OP is only getting 25,000 from tires on a standard sedan, then I
> would say more frequent alignments are definitely in order.
>
I imagine it could also depend how hard they're driven. ie: around
corners, etc. Tire inflation as well, but inproper inflation would show
uneven wear.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

In article <1140453738.851927.153720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
Tom Jackson <Ark321@juno.com> wrote:
>BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of
>tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French)
>Uniroyal HRs.

Yes. If you are only getting 25,000 miles on a set of tires, check
the following:

Tire air pressure -- too low and the tires will wear out quickly, as
well as being less safe.

Tire size, type, and rating -- sportier tires (with higher speed ratings)
tend to have lesser tread life (S and T rated tires may last 80,000 miles,
though some "budget" tires have far shorter tread lifes; H rated tires
typically 50,000 to 60,000 miles, and sportier tires with higher speed
ratings like V, Z, W, Y typically less). Check the load rating on the
tires as well.

Type of driving -- city driving will wear out tires (and other things
in a car, like brake pads and oil) in less mileage than highway driving.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

Most all tires have some sort of mileage warranty; If you choose to look at
it and use it is up to you.
The higher performance tires do not; especially the 50 series and such and
those with z-rating ect. Also some aggressive truck tires do not also; this
is up to the manufacture

A car that is radically out of alignment MAY cause handling problem and be
unsafe; but generally speaking most alignment issues boil down to pulls,
drifts and tire wear.

I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous on the
road prior to the job.


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub...l_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/



"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:dtia34$qli$6@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> In article <QbLKf.440165$qk4.321389@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> hansensw@hotmail.com says...
>
>>You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the
>>tires.
>
> It is about the car and the tires. A poorly aligned car will not handle
> properly, which is dangerous.
>
>>The alignment is suggested to VALIDATE the tire warranty..
>>If you say "NO" then the mileage warranty is Void; the same as if you
>>decline the extended warranty on something you buy.
>
> If that is the case, then the tire warranty should clearly state it.
>
>
> I never buy tires because of a wear warranty. Those types of tires tend
> to be
> poor performers. So it is a non-issue for me.
> --------------
> Alex
>
>

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

Well 60,000 million--never ;)

A few push the 60K number; a regional tire distributor is advertising a
100,000 tire. Realistically that rubber would be so hard that I wonder if it
would have any grip. Most people have forgotten about any warranty by the
60k mark, and if you don't quite make it then the tire dealer offers them a
pro rated offer perhaps 10 dollars off each on the new set.

My tire preference is the brand we sell, based on performance and what I see
on a regular basis. Also my discount plays into it allot. There are a few of
our names I don't like based upon the tread depth. I don't like tires that
have the edge tread 2/32 less than the center because if you corner allot
then you wear the tires edges and then your tire looks worn out while there
is still tread in the center.

I hate Michelins only because thy have a stiff sidewall and are hard to
remove from the rim sometimes. But as far as being "nail magnets" it seems
as though all tires are equal. We do see more nails and flats in tires that
are 80% worn...



--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub...l_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/


"Tom Jackson" <Ark321@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1140634088.131650.74150@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Stephen:
>
> Out of curiousity - do you see customers who actually get 60,000
> million on a set off tires especially front wheel drive cars?
>
> Any brands you prefer? I always had weird stuff with Michelins as they
> would seem to attract nails.
>

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

"Stephen H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ekbLf.444760$qk4.160397@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I hate Michelins only because thy have a stiff sidewall and are hard to
> remove from the rim sometimes. But as far as being "nail magnets" it
> seems as though all tires are equal. We do see more nails and flats in
> tires that are 80% worn...
>
Our Prius came with Potenza tires, which have a treadwear rating of 160
(!) - those really were "nail magnets." We had more punctures with those in
two years than we had altogether in a 2-car family for more than 20 years. I
think the soft compound let road debris get a perch and work its way into
the tire. The Pirellis we put on haven't had a puncture yet.

Mike

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

Stephen H wrote:
> Most all tires have some sort of mileage warranty; If you choose to look at
> it and use it is up to you.
> The higher performance tires do not; especially the 50 series and such and
> those with z-rating ect. Also some aggressive truck tires do not also; this
> is up to the manufacture
>
> A car that is radically out of alignment MAY cause handling problem and be
> unsafe; but generally speaking most alignment issues boil down to pulls,
> drifts and tire wear.
>
> I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous on the
> road prior to the job.

maybe not pottering about town or straight line on a freeway, but i
assure you, if the rear alignment on a civic is out, it radically
affects cornering stability - it makes a huge difference to the adhesion
limit and therefore can significantly reduce cornering speed. do the
experiments yourself some time.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:iridndeOacqZWGDenZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> Stephen H wrote:
>>
>> I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous
>> on the road prior to the job.
>
> maybe not pottering about town or straight line on a freeway, but i
> assure you, if the rear alignment on a civic is out, it radically
> affects cornering stability - it makes a huge difference to the
> adhesion limit and therefore can significantly reduce cornering speed.
> do the experiments yourself some time.
>

In principal I agree but, how many people actually drive 9-10ths on the
road? I think alignment guy's speaking of normal drivers.

In the back and front on normal honda's, the only adjustment is toe (how
pointed in the tires are to each other). In the front, if the caster's off
you actually have to loosen and move the entire subframe fore and aft
(which means effectively it's not adjultable) . Camber's completely not
adjustable. If you have bad camber, you've either lowered the car or
something's bent.

You can put adjustable parts in, if you want to change the camber, upper
control arm's in the back and front can be replaced with adjustable ones.

Re: New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
 

"Stephen H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ObLKf.440164$qk4.407583@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> And I've seen cars out of alignment from the factory.

Absolutely Stephen! This DOES happen. Even the so-called luxury marque
nameplates ship vehicles ocassionally with alignment issues right out of the
chute.

Ron M.