O2 sensor controversy again
 

The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause drivability
or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has another data
point.

In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had the
same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*! The
dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack of
diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.

Mike

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause drivability
> or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has another data
> point.
>
> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had the
> same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*! The
> dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack of
> diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>
> Mike
>
>
my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor,
that problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause drivability
> or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has another data
> point.
>
> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had the
> same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*! The
> dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack of
> diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>
> Mike
>
>
my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor,
that problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause drivability
> or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has another data
> point.
>
> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had the
> same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*! The
> dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack of
> diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>
> Mike
>
>
my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor,
that problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close and
the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater current
and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely determine what
they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem without setting a code
is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes long before turning on the
light on the dash. The information in the computer should be thoroughly
analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and could just be masking the real
problem.


"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:-tSdnUzA2tZufdbZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause
>> drivability or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has
>> another data point.
>>
>> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
>> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had
>> the same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*!
>> The dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack
>> of diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>>
>> Mike
> my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
> aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
> anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor, that
> problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close and
the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater current
and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely determine what
they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem without setting a code
is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes long before turning on the
light on the dash. The information in the computer should be thoroughly
analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and could just be masking the real
problem.


"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:-tSdnUzA2tZufdbZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause
>> drivability or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has
>> another data point.
>>
>> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
>> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had
>> the same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*!
>> The dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack
>> of diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>>
>> Mike
> my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
> aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
> anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor, that
> problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close and
the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater current
and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely determine what
they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem without setting a code
is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes long before turning on the
light on the dash. The information in the computer should be thoroughly
analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and could just be masking the real
problem.


"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:-tSdnUzA2tZufdbZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> The question of whether an O2 sensor can be bad enough to cause
>> drivability or fuel economy problems without triggering OBDII codes has
>> another data point.
>>
>> In the alt.autos.subaru forum somebody asked for help sorting out very
>> troublesome hesitation after slowing in a 2006 Outback. A respondent had
>> the same problem in his car, and pressured the dealer to do *something*!
>> The dealer replaced the O2 sensor (front one, I presume) in spite of lack
>> of diagnostic codes and the symptom disappeared.
>>
>> Mike
> my experience is yes, it can definitely scratch that itch. with cheapo
> aftermarket sensors, my '89, which has a slight tendency to hesitiation
> anyway, is /way/ worse. no codes. but when i use a new oem sensor, that
> problem all but disappears.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> could just be masking the real problem.
>
>
I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
badly and not be tattled on, though.

Mike

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> could just be masking the real problem.
>
>
I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
badly and not be tattled on, though.

Mike

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> could just be masking the real problem.
>
>
I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
badly and not be tattled on, though.

Mike

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
> news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> > Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> > and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> > current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> > determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> > without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> > long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> > computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> > could just be masking the real problem.
> >
> >
> I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
> experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
> out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
> badly and not be tattled on, though.
>
> Mike

--------------------------------------

Maybe the out-of-the-box defect was caused by the BOX ITSELF (like it
had the word BOSCH on it)? I keep hearing horror stories about BOSCH,
and having owned Volvo and VW, I believe it.

:-(

'Curly'
--
If there are a couple of _underscores_ hidden in my return address,
you'll have to remove them to reply . . . . Thanks.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
> news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> > Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> > and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> > current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> > determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> > without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> > long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> > computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> > could just be masking the real problem.
> >
> >
> I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
> experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
> out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
> badly and not be tattled on, though.
>
> Mike

--------------------------------------

Maybe the out-of-the-box defect was caused by the BOX ITSELF (like it
had the word BOSCH on it)? I keep hearing horror stories about BOSCH,
and having owned Volvo and VW, I believe it.

:-(

'Curly'
--
If there are a couple of _underscores_ hidden in my return address,
you'll have to remove them to reply . . . . Thanks.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
> news:8s33g.69065$H71.136@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> > Am 89 is not OBDII compliant and does not monitor the sensors that close
> > and the sensors are totally different. The OBDII system monitors heater
> > current and voltage and switching times and voltage to very precisely
> > determine what they are doing. The chance of them causing a problem
> > without setting a code is extremely slim. They can be setting sub codes
> > long before turning on the light on the dash. The information in the
> > computer should be thoroughly analyzed as swapping parts is expensive and
> > could just be masking the real problem.
> >
> >
> I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
> experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
> out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
> badly and not be tattled on, though.
>
> Mike

--------------------------------------

Maybe the out-of-the-box defect was caused by the BOX ITSELF (like it
had the word BOSCH on it)? I keep hearing horror stories about BOSCH,
and having owned Volvo and VW, I believe it.

:-(

'Curly'
--
If there are a couple of _underscores_ hidden in my return address,
you'll have to remove them to reply . . . . Thanks.

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
> experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
> out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
> badly and not be tattled on, though.
>
> Mike

===============================

:-) Maybe the out-of-the-box defect was caused by the BOX ITSELF (like
it
had the word BOSCH on it)? I keep hearing horror stories about BOSCH,
and having owned Volvo and VW, I believe it.

:-(

'Curly'

Re: O2 sensor controversy again
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> I would have thought OBDII would catch O2 weakness, too, but as the Subaru
> experience illustrates it isn't necessarily so. I am puzzled what sort of
> out-of-the-box defect the sensor would have that would cause it to behave so
> badly and not be tattled on, though.
>
> Mike

===============================

:-) Maybe the out-of-the-box defect was caused by the BOX ITSELF (like
it
had the word BOSCH on it)? I keep hearing horror stories about BOSCH,
and having owned Volvo and VW, I believe it.

:-(

'Curly'