Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>
> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
> There are occasional bursts and stops.

ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
sophisticated either.

in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
"smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.

>>> What other options do I
>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>
> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>
yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.

getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.

lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>
>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>
> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
> sophisticated either.
>
> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.

How, please elaborate.


>>>> What other options do I
>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>
>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>
> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.

Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
OBD2 Conversion Harness, and then use OBD2 scan tools?

> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>
>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>
> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
> sophisticated either.
>
> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.

How, please elaborate.


>>>> What other options do I
>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>
>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>
> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.

Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
OBD2 Conversion Harness, and then use OBD2 scan tools?

> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>
>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>
> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
> sophisticated either.
>
> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.

How, please elaborate.


>>>> What other options do I
>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>
>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>
> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.

Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
OBD2 Conversion Harness, and then use OBD2 scan tools?

> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

Interesting that you mention a loose timing belt may cause this
behavior. This problem started after timing belt was replaced.
I will check ignition timing with a light asap and report back what I
learn.

Thanks for the advise.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

Interesting that you mention a loose timing belt may cause this
behavior. This problem started after timing belt was replaced.
I will check ignition timing with a light asap and report back what I
learn.

Thanks for the advise.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.

Interesting that you mention a loose timing belt may cause this
behavior. This problem started after timing belt was replaced.
I will check ignition timing with a light asap and report back what I
learn.

Thanks for the advise.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in news:ec2gmp$d82m$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in
>> news:ec2bjv$dc6a$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>
>>> Can someone tell me where I can find information about OBD-1
>>> scanners that are suitable for 1993 Honda Del Sol/Civic cars . I am
>>> looking for FAQ/Howto docs.
>>
>> Your "OBD-I" scanner is a paper clip.
>>
>> You short the Service Check connector on top of the ECU with the
>> paper clip, turn the ignition ON, then read the Check Engine light
>> flashes.
>>
>> See here:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/..._E_14JAN03.pdf
>> specifically page 15.
>>
> Thanks for the pdf. I was hoping for something more substantial, like
> hooking up the serial port of a PC, running some OBD tool, to a
> diagnostic port of the car and collecting performance data. I must be
> dreaming.:) I am specifically interested in learning about which
> cylinder is misfiring during engine idle. What other options do I
> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>
>

There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
Diagnostic port did not come until OBD-II.(1996 models)

(probably due to the lack of it on OBD-I)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in news:ec2gmp$d82m$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in
>> news:ec2bjv$dc6a$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>
>>> Can someone tell me where I can find information about OBD-1
>>> scanners that are suitable for 1993 Honda Del Sol/Civic cars . I am
>>> looking for FAQ/Howto docs.
>>
>> Your "OBD-I" scanner is a paper clip.
>>
>> You short the Service Check connector on top of the ECU with the
>> paper clip, turn the ignition ON, then read the Check Engine light
>> flashes.
>>
>> See here:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/..._E_14JAN03.pdf
>> specifically page 15.
>>
> Thanks for the pdf. I was hoping for something more substantial, like
> hooking up the serial port of a PC, running some OBD tool, to a
> diagnostic port of the car and collecting performance data. I must be
> dreaming.:) I am specifically interested in learning about which
> cylinder is misfiring during engine idle. What other options do I
> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>
>

There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
Diagnostic port did not come until OBD-II.(1996 models)

(probably due to the lack of it on OBD-I)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in news:ec2gmp$d82m$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in
>> news:ec2bjv$dc6a$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>
>>> Can someone tell me where I can find information about OBD-1
>>> scanners that are suitable for 1993 Honda Del Sol/Civic cars . I am
>>> looking for FAQ/Howto docs.
>>
>> Your "OBD-I" scanner is a paper clip.
>>
>> You short the Service Check connector on top of the ECU with the
>> paper clip, turn the ignition ON, then read the Check Engine light
>> flashes.
>>
>> See here:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/..._E_14JAN03.pdf
>> specifically page 15.
>>
> Thanks for the pdf. I was hoping for something more substantial, like
> hooking up the serial port of a PC, running some OBD tool, to a
> diagnostic port of the car and collecting performance data. I must be
> dreaming.:) I am specifically interested in learning about which
> cylinder is misfiring during engine idle. What other options do I
> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>
>

There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
Diagnostic port did not come until OBD-II.(1996 models)

(probably due to the lack of it on OBD-I)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in news:ec2gmp$d82m$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote in
>> news:ec2bjv$dc6a$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>
>>> Can someone tell me where I can find information about OBD-1
>>> scanners that are suitable for 1993 Honda Del Sol/Civic cars . I am
>>> looking for FAQ/Howto docs.
>>
>> Your "OBD-I" scanner is a paper clip.
>>
>> You short the Service Check connector on top of the ECU with the
>> paper clip, turn the ignition ON, then read the Check Engine light
>> flashes.
>>
>> See here:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/..._E_14JAN03.pdf
>> specifically page 15.
>>
> Thanks for the pdf. I was hoping for something more substantial, like
> hooking up the serial port of a PC, running some OBD tool, to a
> diagnostic port of the car and collecting performance data. I must be
> dreaming.:) I am specifically interested in learning about which
> cylinder is misfiring during engine idle. What other options do I
> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>
>

There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
Diagnostic port did not come until OBD-II.(1996 models)

(probably due to the lack of it on OBD-I)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:


>
> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.


No such thing as "OBD-I"


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:


>
> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.


No such thing as "OBD-I"


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:


>
> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.


No such thing as "OBD-I"


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:


>
> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.


No such thing as "OBD-I"


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/