Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>>
>>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
>> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
>> sophisticated either.
>>
>> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
>> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
>> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.
>
> How, please elaborate.

i did - that's what all the verbage on the oxygen sensor/ignition/timing
system was about.

>
>
>>>>> What other options do I
>>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>>
>>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>>
>> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
>> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
>> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
> but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
> OBD2 Conversion Harness,

yes

> and then use OBD2 scan tools?

yes. but don't do it because you'll need a second oxygen sensor, the
obdcII ecu data recorder could be used against you in the event of a
crash investigation, and you'll be speed limited.

>
>> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
>> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
>> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
>> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
>> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
>> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
>> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>>
>> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
>> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
>> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
>> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
>> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
>> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.
>
> A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
> the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?
>
yes. with the service connector in place, if the belt is loose, you'll
see the timing marks jumping back and forth. if the belt is tensioned
correctly, they'll be rock solid - assuming the rest of your ignition
system is working well of course.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>>
>>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
>> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
>> sophisticated either.
>>
>> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
>> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
>> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.
>
> How, please elaborate.

i did - that's what all the verbage on the oxygen sensor/ignition/timing
system was about.

>
>
>>>>> What other options do I
>>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>>
>>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>>
>> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
>> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
>> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
> but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
> OBD2 Conversion Harness,

yes

> and then use OBD2 scan tools?

yes. but don't do it because you'll need a second oxygen sensor, the
obdcII ecu data recorder could be used against you in the event of a
crash investigation, and you'll be speed limited.

>
>> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
>> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
>> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
>> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
>> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
>> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
>> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>>
>> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
>> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
>> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
>> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
>> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
>> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.
>
> A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
> the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?
>
yes. with the service connector in place, if the belt is loose, you'll
see the timing marks jumping back and forth. if the belt is tensioned
correctly, they'll be rock solid - assuming the rest of your ignition
system is working well of course.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>>
>>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
>> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
>> sophisticated either.
>>
>> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
>> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
>> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.
>
> How, please elaborate.

i did - that's what all the verbage on the oxygen sensor/ignition/timing
system was about.

>
>
>>>>> What other options do I
>>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>>
>>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>>
>> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
>> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
>> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
> but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
> OBD2 Conversion Harness,

yes

> and then use OBD2 scan tools?

yes. but don't do it because you'll need a second oxygen sensor, the
obdcII ecu data recorder could be used against you in the event of a
crash investigation, and you'll be speed limited.

>
>> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
>> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
>> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
>> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
>> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
>> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
>> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>>
>> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
>> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
>> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
>> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
>> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
>> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.
>
> A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
> the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?
>
yes. with the service connector in place, if the belt is loose, you'll
see the timing marks jumping back and forth. if the belt is tensioned
correctly, they'll be rock solid - assuming the rest of your ignition
system is working well of course.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> delSol-owner@nospam.net wrote:
>>> "TeGGeR?" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>>> Why do you think you have a misfire? Did you fail emissions on high HC?
>>>>
>>> When the engine idles the flow of gas out the exhaust is not smooth.
>>> There are occasional bursts and stops.
>> ok, so that's the real issue you're getting at. messing with the ecu
>> won't fix that. and diagnostics on the obdcII ecu aren't that
>> sophisticated either.
>>
>> in relation to the exhaust, the gas flow dynamics are not optimized for
>> idling, they're optimized for driving. flow will not be entirely
>> "smooth". that said, if the flow is worse than normal, it's easily fixed.
>
> How, please elaborate.

i did - that's what all the verbage on the oxygen sensor/ignition/timing
system was about.

>
>
>>>>> What other options do I
>>>>> have? There is no problem with CEL.
>>>> Your ECU cannot store or display that information. I don't know how you'd
>>>> do it on your pre-OBD-II car.
>>>>
>>> Can I do an ECU mod? I have seen some info at www.ecucontrol.com and
>>> www.pgmfi.org? Any advise on that would be appreciated.
>>>
>> yes you can, but it's massively expensive overkill and won't fix this
>> problem. go to http://boomslang.us/ and read about their conversion
>> kits if you want to do it the factory ecu way.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, at boomslang.us I do see parts they are selling
> but no docs that explain what to do with them. Do I need the OBD1 to
> OBD2 Conversion Harness,

yes

> and then use OBD2 scan tools?

yes. but don't do it because you'll need a second oxygen sensor, the
obdcII ecu data recorder could be used against you in the event of a
crash investigation, and you'll be speed limited.

>
>> getting back to your existing situation, check the ignition system and
>> oxygen sensor. non-oem sensors are often abysmal and confuse the heck
>> out of the ecu - don't use them. fresh ignition components help
>> significantly too because the voltage needed to spark an idle mixture is
>> greater than that needed to spark a running mixture. weak or failing
>> insulation on the plug leads means it may run ok on the freeway, but
>> give weak spark on idle. same for old plugs, worn distributor cap, etc.
>>
>> lastly, check the ignition timing. when doing it, [with the service
>> connector on] check to see whether the timing marks are lashing back and
>> forth. if they are, the timing belt could be loose - the ignition
>> sensors run off the distributor which runs off the cam. loose belt
>> means the whole timing for the vehicle is subject to "noise" and again,
>> that affects smooth idle. correct valve lash helps too.
>
> A friend has offered to let me use his timing light, is that
> the best way to see what's happeining with ignition timing?
>
yes. with the service connector in place, if the belt is loose, you'll
see the timing marks jumping back and forth. if the belt is tensioned
correctly, they'll be rock solid - assuming the rest of your ignition
system is working well of course.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>
>
>>
>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>
>
> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>
>

1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.

what do YOU call it?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>
>
>>
>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>
>
> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>
>

1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.

what do YOU call it?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>
>
>>
>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>
>
> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>
>

1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.

what do YOU call it?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>
>
>>
>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>
>
> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>
>

1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.

what do YOU call it?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "TeGGeR�" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>
some of us call it obdC. but i think we all know what you mean.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "TeGGeR�" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>
some of us call it obdC. but i think we all know what you mean.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "TeGGeR�" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>
some of us call it obdC. but i think we all know what you mean.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "TeGGeR�" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>
some of us call it obdC. but i think we all know what you mean.

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823F22302F93jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>



ODB was the original standard SAE-derived system installed from 1988 to
1995 in some California vehicles. The rest of the US (and Canada) used
automakers' own proprietary diagnostics system.

Starting in about 1994, the entire US was forced by US federal law to begin
phasing in an updated version of California's original OBD. This updated
system was known as OBD-II.

After some thought here, I suppose you *could* logically call the original
OBD "OBD-I". World War I was not called that until they had a second war,
so the logic is similar. However, Honda's diag system is not the same thing
as the original OBD.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823F22302F93jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>



ODB was the original standard SAE-derived system installed from 1988 to
1995 in some California vehicles. The rest of the US (and Canada) used
automakers' own proprietary diagnostics system.

Starting in about 1994, the entire US was forced by US federal law to begin
phasing in an updated version of California's original OBD. This updated
system was known as OBD-II.

After some thought here, I suppose you *could* logically call the original
OBD "OBD-I". World War I was not called that until they had a second war,
so the logic is similar. However, Honda's diag system is not the same thing
as the original OBD.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: OBD-1 PC based scanner
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9823F22302F93jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9823EC248CE2Ctegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns9823796897314jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There aren't any diagnostic ports on OBD-I cars.
>>
>>
>> No such thing as "OBD-I"
>>
>>
>
> 1994-1995 Integras;OBD-I,96-01;OBD-II.
>
> what do YOU call it?
>



ODB was the original standard SAE-derived system installed from 1988 to
1995 in some California vehicles. The rest of the US (and Canada) used
automakers' own proprietary diagnostics system.

Starting in about 1994, the entire US was forced by US federal law to begin
phasing in an updated version of California's original OBD. This updated
system was known as OBD-II.

After some thought here, I suppose you *could* logically call the original
OBD "OBD-I". World War I was not called that until they had a second war,
so the logic is similar. However, Honda's diag system is not the same thing
as the original OBD.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/