Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:32:36 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <12p6q33qlhcg0ac@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Bill Radio" <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
>> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> problem is this?
>
> Apparently very common.
>
> Many years ago, when I first got a handheld GPS, I tested it against my
> 92 Civic--and found that the Civic's speedometer was showing 5mph fast,
> no matter what.
>
> Fast forward to today. I'm driving my mother's 94 Civic home to sell
> it; interestingly enough, I'm driving in exactly the same place I drove
> years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94
> behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did.

Got a Garmin c320 GPS for Christmas. Checked my speedo on a long trip
yesterday, and much like the street-side police checks, the GPS shows my
speed as within 1MPH at all ranges.

They certainly have gotten better over the years!

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:32:36 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <12p6q33qlhcg0ac@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Bill Radio" <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
>> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> problem is this?
>
> Apparently very common.
>
> Many years ago, when I first got a handheld GPS, I tested it against my
> 92 Civic--and found that the Civic's speedometer was showing 5mph fast,
> no matter what.
>
> Fast forward to today. I'm driving my mother's 94 Civic home to sell
> it; interestingly enough, I'm driving in exactly the same place I drove
> years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94
> behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did.

Got a Garmin c320 GPS for Christmas. Checked my speedo on a long trip
yesterday, and much like the street-side police checks, the GPS shows my
speed as within 1MPH at all ranges.

They certainly have gotten better over the years!

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:32:36 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <12p6q33qlhcg0ac@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Bill Radio" <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
>> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> problem is this?
>
> Apparently very common.
>
> Many years ago, when I first got a handheld GPS, I tested it against my
> 92 Civic--and found that the Civic's speedometer was showing 5mph fast,
> no matter what.
>
> Fast forward to today. I'm driving my mother's 94 Civic home to sell
> it; interestingly enough, I'm driving in exactly the same place I drove
> years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94
> behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did.

Got a Garmin c320 GPS for Christmas. Checked my speedo on a long trip
yesterday, and much like the street-side police checks, the GPS shows my
speed as within 1MPH at all ranges.

They certainly have gotten better over the years!

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:4o6dncLB0rhG4wXYnZ2dnUVZ_vipnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> the reasoning is quite simple. customers want their car to be "fast".
> [faster 0-60, bmw drivers bowling along at what they think is 85...] cops
> want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference to
> fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem.

I read a sci-fi short story many years ago called "The Marching Morons."
(IIRC) One of the major facets of the theme of a populace ignorant of the
stupidity of their lives was found in their cars. The protagonist came from
present day to find himself in that future, and when he was driven somewhere
in a "modern" car he noticed irregularities. The speedometer swiftly hit 300
mph and there were sparks blowing past the window, but the scenery moved
past at about 35 mph and the time it took to get to their destination was
more consistent with 35 mph than 300. But... everybody was happy!

Mike

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:4o6dncLB0rhG4wXYnZ2dnUVZ_vipnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> the reasoning is quite simple. customers want their car to be "fast".
> [faster 0-60, bmw drivers bowling along at what they think is 85...] cops
> want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference to
> fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem.

I read a sci-fi short story many years ago called "The Marching Morons."
(IIRC) One of the major facets of the theme of a populace ignorant of the
stupidity of their lives was found in their cars. The protagonist came from
present day to find himself in that future, and when he was driven somewhere
in a "modern" car he noticed irregularities. The speedometer swiftly hit 300
mph and there were sparks blowing past the window, but the scenery moved
past at about 35 mph and the time it took to get to their destination was
more consistent with 35 mph than 300. But... everybody was happy!

Mike

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:4o6dncLB0rhG4wXYnZ2dnUVZ_vipnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> the reasoning is quite simple. customers want their car to be "fast".
> [faster 0-60, bmw drivers bowling along at what they think is 85...] cops
> want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference to
> fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem.

I read a sci-fi short story many years ago called "The Marching Morons."
(IIRC) One of the major facets of the theme of a populace ignorant of the
stupidity of their lives was found in their cars. The protagonist came from
present day to find himself in that future, and when he was driven somewhere
in a "modern" car he noticed irregularities. The speedometer swiftly hit 300
mph and there were sparks blowing past the window, but the scenery moved
past at about 35 mph and the time it took to get to their destination was
more consistent with 35 mph than 300. But... everybody was happy!

Mike

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

They filed the suit so the lawyers could collect $9.8 million in legal
fees from Honda!

I'm sure that if Honda odometers consistently read LOW, the same four
lawyers would file in behalf of purchasers of used Hondas.

Texas' tort reform has chased these small fry lawyers into federal
court.

Al
jim beam wrote:
> Bill Radio wrote:
> > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> > most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> > error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> > problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> > anyway.
> >
> > Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> > Bill Radio
> >
> >
> i can't understand why anyone would launch a lawsuit on this in the
> first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are
> /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

They filed the suit so the lawyers could collect $9.8 million in legal
fees from Honda!

I'm sure that if Honda odometers consistently read LOW, the same four
lawyers would file in behalf of purchasers of used Hondas.

Texas' tort reform has chased these small fry lawyers into federal
court.

Al
jim beam wrote:
> Bill Radio wrote:
> > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> > most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> > error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> > problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> > anyway.
> >
> > Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> > Bill Radio
> >
> >
> i can't understand why anyone would launch a lawsuit on this in the
> first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are
> /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

They filed the suit so the lawyers could collect $9.8 million in legal
fees from Honda!

I'm sure that if Honda odometers consistently read LOW, the same four
lawyers would file in behalf of purchasers of used Hondas.

Texas' tort reform has chased these small fry lawyers into federal
court.

Al
jim beam wrote:
> Bill Radio wrote:
> > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> > most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> > error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> > problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> > anyway.
> >
> > Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> > Bill Radio
> >
> >
> i can't understand why anyone would launch a lawsuit on this in the
> first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are
> /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

They filed the suit so the lawyers could collect $9.8 million in legal
fees from Honda!

I'm sure that if Honda odometers consistently read LOW, the same four
lawyers would file in behalf of purchasers of used Hondas.

Texas' tort reform has chased these small fry lawyers into federal
court.

Al
jim beam wrote:
> Bill Radio wrote:
> > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> > most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> > error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> > problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> > anyway.
> >
> > Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> > Bill Radio
> >
> >
> i can't understand why anyone would launch a lawsuit on this in the
> first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are
> /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
"Mile 37,800". If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, then 1)
the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; 2) both of the trip
meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; 3) Honda owners can not
sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
actual miles driven; 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
high, due to the overstated odometer.

chand



Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> >anyway.
> >
> >Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> >Bill Radio
> >
>
> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>
> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>
> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>
> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
"Mile 37,800". If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, then 1)
the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; 2) both of the trip
meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; 3) Honda owners can not
sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
actual miles driven; 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
high, due to the overstated odometer.

chand



Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> >anyway.
> >
> >Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> >Bill Radio
> >
>
> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>
> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>
> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>
> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
"Mile 37,800". If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, then 1)
the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; 2) both of the trip
meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; 3) Honda owners can not
sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
actual miles driven; 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
high, due to the overstated odometer.

chand



Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> >anyway.
> >
> >Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> >Bill Radio
> >
>
> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>
> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>
> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>
> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
"Mile 37,800". If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, then 1)
the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; 2) both of the trip
meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; 3) Honda owners can not
sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
actual miles driven; 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
high, due to the overstated odometer.

chand



Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>
> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
> >anyway.
> >
> >Anyone else question their odometer?
> >
> >Bill Radio
> >
>
> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>
> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>
> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>
> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:42 -0800, clodhoppers18@gmail.com wrote:

>I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
>"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
>suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
>is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
>"Mile 37,800".

This implies that the odometers are reading 5% high. Therefore you
get a 5% extension in your warranty. That seems fair.

>If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect,

Have you checked it?

> then 1)
>the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
>factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false;

The odometer does not affect your actual mileage of course. If you
mean that you are measuring your MPG and the number is 5% higher than
reality, then you need to factor that into your calculation. If you
are referring to the EPA estimate, then rest assured that the estimate
is in no way dependent on the accuracy of the odometer.

>2) both of the trip
>meters also incorrectly state miles traveled;

You need to factor this in, but I don't see how you have been harmed
by this.

>3) Honda owners can not
>sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
>reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
>actual miles driven;

This may or may not be a valid point. But consider that, to the
extent that used Odysseys compete with each other for buyers, they are
all at an equal disadvantage. To the extent that they compete with
other cars, we don't know how accurate those cars' odometers are. I
can tell you that +5% is pretty typical for odometer accuracy.

> 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
>high, due to the overstated odometer.

If you pay taxes on this basis, then you are overpaying. Where are
you that calculates taxes this way? I have never heard of this and it
seems ripe for cheating by periodically disconnecting the odometer.

I would have a hard time working up much anger about this.

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
>> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>> >anyway.
>> >
>> >Anyone else question their odometer?
>> >
>> >Bill Radio
>> >
>>
>> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
>> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
>> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
>> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
>> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
>> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
>> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>>
>> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
>> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
>> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
>> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
>> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
>> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
>> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>>
>> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
>> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
>> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
>> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
>> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
>> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
>> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
>> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
>> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
>> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
>> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
>> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>>
>> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
>> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
>> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:42 -0800, clodhoppers18@gmail.com wrote:

>I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
>"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
>suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
>is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
>"Mile 37,800".

This implies that the odometers are reading 5% high. Therefore you
get a 5% extension in your warranty. That seems fair.

>If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect,

Have you checked it?

> then 1)
>the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
>factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false;

The odometer does not affect your actual mileage of course. If you
mean that you are measuring your MPG and the number is 5% higher than
reality, then you need to factor that into your calculation. If you
are referring to the EPA estimate, then rest assured that the estimate
is in no way dependent on the accuracy of the odometer.

>2) both of the trip
>meters also incorrectly state miles traveled;

You need to factor this in, but I don't see how you have been harmed
by this.

>3) Honda owners can not
>sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
>reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
>actual miles driven;

This may or may not be a valid point. But consider that, to the
extent that used Odysseys compete with each other for buyers, they are
all at an equal disadvantage. To the extent that they compete with
other cars, we don't know how accurate those cars' odometers are. I
can tell you that +5% is pretty typical for odometer accuracy.

> 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
>high, due to the overstated odometer.

If you pay taxes on this basis, then you are overpaying. Where are
you that calculates taxes this way? I have never heard of this and it
seems ripe for cheating by periodically disconnecting the odometer.

I would have a hard time working up much anger about this.

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
>> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>> >anyway.
>> >
>> >Anyone else question their odometer?
>> >
>> >Bill Radio
>> >
>>
>> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
>> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
>> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
>> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
>> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
>> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
>> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>>
>> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
>> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
>> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
>> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
>> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
>> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
>> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>>
>> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
>> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
>> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
>> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
>> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
>> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
>> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
>> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
>> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
>> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
>> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
>> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>>
>> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
>> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
>> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:42 -0800, clodhoppers18@gmail.com wrote:

>I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
>"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
>suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
>is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
>"Mile 37,800".

This implies that the odometers are reading 5% high. Therefore you
get a 5% extension in your warranty. That seems fair.

>If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect,

Have you checked it?

> then 1)
>the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
>factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false;

The odometer does not affect your actual mileage of course. If you
mean that you are measuring your MPG and the number is 5% higher than
reality, then you need to factor that into your calculation. If you
are referring to the EPA estimate, then rest assured that the estimate
is in no way dependent on the accuracy of the odometer.

>2) both of the trip
>meters also incorrectly state miles traveled;

You need to factor this in, but I don't see how you have been harmed
by this.

>3) Honda owners can not
>sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
>reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
>actual miles driven;

This may or may not be a valid point. But consider that, to the
extent that used Odysseys compete with each other for buyers, they are
all at an equal disadvantage. To the extent that they compete with
other cars, we don't know how accurate those cars' odometers are. I
can tell you that +5% is pretty typical for odometer accuracy.

> 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
>high, due to the overstated odometer.

If you pay taxes on this basis, then you are overpaying. Where are
you that calculates taxes this way? I have never heard of this and it
seems ripe for cheating by periodically disconnecting the odometer.

I would have a hard time working up much anger about this.

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
>> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>> >anyway.
>> >
>> >Anyone else question their odometer?
>> >
>> >Bill Radio
>> >
>>
>> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
>> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
>> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
>> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
>> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
>> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
>> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>>
>> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
>> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
>> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
>> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
>> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
>> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
>> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>>
>> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
>> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
>> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
>> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
>> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
>> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
>> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
>> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
>> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
>> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
>> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
>> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>>
>> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
>> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
>> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.

Re: Odometer Class Action Suit?
 

On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:42 -0800, clodhoppers18@gmail.com wrote:

>I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the
>"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the
>suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get
>is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and
>"Mile 37,800".

This implies that the odometers are reading 5% high. Therefore you
get a 5% extension in your warranty. That seems fair.

>If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect,

Have you checked it?

> then 1)
>the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that
>factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false;

The odometer does not affect your actual mileage of course. If you
mean that you are measuring your MPG and the number is 5% higher than
reality, then you need to factor that into your calculation. If you
are referring to the EPA estimate, then rest assured that the estimate
is in no way dependent on the accuracy of the odometer.

>2) both of the trip
>meters also incorrectly state miles traveled;

You need to factor this in, but I don't see how you have been harmed
by this.

>3) Honda owners can not
>sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer
>reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the
>actual miles driven;

This may or may not be a valid point. But consider that, to the
extent that used Odysseys compete with each other for buyers, they are
all at an equal disadvantage. To the extent that they compete with
other cars, we don't know how accurate those cars' odometers are. I
can tell you that +5% is pretty typical for odometer accuracy.

> 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously
>high, due to the overstated odometer.

If you pay taxes on this basis, then you are overpaying. Where are
you that calculates taxes this way? I have never heard of this and it
seems ripe for cheating by periodically disconnecting the odometer.

I would have a hard time working up much anger about this.

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:05 -0700, "Bill Radio"
>> <Wireless@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive
>> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the
>> >most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4%
>> >error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a
>> >problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window,
>> >anyway.
>> >
>> >Anyone else question their odometer?
>> >
>> >Bill Radio
>> >
>>
>> For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration
>> which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of
>> advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas
>> mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner
>> and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is
>> based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have
>> become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years.
>>
>> As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how
>> well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor
>> effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in
>> size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a
>> reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side
>> and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made
>> a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument.
>>
>> That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally
>> delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause
>> for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle
>> depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the
>> manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars
>> in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others
>> on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer
>> measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used
>> vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue
>> that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the
>> over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for
>> quality that compensates for the excess mileage.
>>
>> Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of
>> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4%
>> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO.