Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
10-21-2005, 08:46 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
ports ($200) it passed the test. But I have a question that bothers
me so much whether others had similar problems.
Let's see the results first.
First Test :
ASM2525 Curb Idle
HC ppm 27 18
CO % 0.01 0
NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
Second Test
ASM2525 Curb idle
HC ppm 44 124
CO% 0.03 0.05
NO ppm 123
As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results. I am
guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
me what else might be different. I think we, the consumers as
drivers, are shafted again by our government.
and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
ports ($200) it passed the test. But I have a question that bothers
me so much whether others had similar problems.
Let's see the results first.
First Test :
ASM2525 Curb Idle
HC ppm 27 18
CO % 0.01 0
NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
Second Test
ASM2525 Curb idle
HC ppm 44 124
CO% 0.03 0.05
NO ppm 123
As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results. I am
guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
me what else might be different. I think we, the consumers as
drivers, are shafted again by our government.
10-23-2005, 09:44 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
> I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> ports ($200) it passed the test.
That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
drivers for repair money.
This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
money.
> But I have a question that bothers
> me so much whether others had similar problems.
> Let's see the results first.
>
> First Test :
> ASM2525 Curb Idle
> HC ppm 27 18
> CO % 0.01 0
> NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
>
> Second Test
> ASM2525 Curb idle
> HC ppm 44 124
> CO% 0.03 0.05
> NO ppm 123
>
> As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
> went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
> different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
> hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results.
It is *CRITICAL* to the results. The engine must be fully warm, and the cat
MUST be hotter than hot to work most efficiently.
There is a "conditioning" procedure that MUST be followed for older cars
to reliably pass, especially since Ontario has been screwing the limits
down each year in order to lop off the lowest 10%.
See my own results here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...emissions.html
> I am
> guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
> me what else might be different.
All kinds of things.
1) Condition/calibration of test equipment
2) Heat of catalytic converter
3) Ambient temperature
4) Random test glitches.
Paul Coninx, a well-know opponent of such I/M programs as Drive Clean, has
chronicled the saga of a Cavalier (or Sunfire, I forget which) that was
taken to eleven different test stations as an experimnet. This car failed
about half the time and passed about half the time, with some wildly
different results. Nothing at all was done to the car in between.
> I think we, the consumers as
> drivers, are shafted again by our government.
No kidding.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
> I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> ports ($200) it passed the test.
That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
drivers for repair money.
This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
money.
> But I have a question that bothers
> me so much whether others had similar problems.
> Let's see the results first.
>
> First Test :
> ASM2525 Curb Idle
> HC ppm 27 18
> CO % 0.01 0
> NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
>
> Second Test
> ASM2525 Curb idle
> HC ppm 44 124
> CO% 0.03 0.05
> NO ppm 123
>
> As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
> went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
> different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
> hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results.
It is *CRITICAL* to the results. The engine must be fully warm, and the cat
MUST be hotter than hot to work most efficiently.
There is a "conditioning" procedure that MUST be followed for older cars
to reliably pass, especially since Ontario has been screwing the limits
down each year in order to lop off the lowest 10%.
See my own results here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...emissions.html
> I am
> guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
> me what else might be different.
All kinds of things.
1) Condition/calibration of test equipment
2) Heat of catalytic converter
3) Ambient temperature
4) Random test glitches.
Paul Coninx, a well-know opponent of such I/M programs as Drive Clean, has
chronicled the saga of a Cavalier (or Sunfire, I forget which) that was
taken to eleven different test stations as an experimnet. This car failed
about half the time and passed about half the time, with some wildly
different results. Nothing at all was done to the car in between.
> I think we, the consumers as
> drivers, are shafted again by our government.
No kidding.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
10-23-2005, 09:44 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
> I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> ports ($200) it passed the test.
That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
drivers for repair money.
This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
money.
> But I have a question that bothers
> me so much whether others had similar problems.
> Let's see the results first.
>
> First Test :
> ASM2525 Curb Idle
> HC ppm 27 18
> CO % 0.01 0
> NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
>
> Second Test
> ASM2525 Curb idle
> HC ppm 44 124
> CO% 0.03 0.05
> NO ppm 123
>
> As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
> went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
> different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
> hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results.
It is *CRITICAL* to the results. The engine must be fully warm, and the cat
MUST be hotter than hot to work most efficiently.
There is a "conditioning" procedure that MUST be followed for older cars
to reliably pass, especially since Ontario has been screwing the limits
down each year in order to lop off the lowest 10%.
See my own results here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...emissions.html
> I am
> guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
> me what else might be different.
All kinds of things.
1) Condition/calibration of test equipment
2) Heat of catalytic converter
3) Ambient temperature
4) Random test glitches.
Paul Coninx, a well-know opponent of such I/M programs as Drive Clean, has
chronicled the saga of a Cavalier (or Sunfire, I forget which) that was
taken to eleven different test stations as an experimnet. This car failed
about half the time and passed about half the time, with some wildly
different results. Nothing at all was done to the car in between.
> I think we, the consumers as
> drivers, are shafted again by our government.
No kidding.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
> I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> ports ($200) it passed the test.
That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
drivers for repair money.
This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
money.
> But I have a question that bothers
> me so much whether others had similar problems.
> Let's see the results first.
>
> First Test :
> ASM2525 Curb Idle
> HC ppm 27 18
> CO % 0.01 0
> NO ppm 783 (failed because the acceptable limit is 467)
>
> Second Test
> ASM2525 Curb idle
> HC ppm 44 124
> CO% 0.03 0.05
> NO ppm 123
>
> As you see it shows an improved NO reading but everything else
> went up. Since two consequent tests in the same facility gives
> different results obviously the condition of the car whether it was
> hot or just driven into the test facility might effect the results.
It is *CRITICAL* to the results. The engine must be fully warm, and the cat
MUST be hotter than hot to work most efficiently.
There is a "conditioning" procedure that MUST be followed for older cars
to reliably pass, especially since Ontario has been screwing the limits
down each year in order to lop off the lowest 10%.
See my own results here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...emissions.html
> I am
> guessing here since I do not know better. Anybody can enlighten
> me what else might be different.
All kinds of things.
1) Condition/calibration of test equipment
2) Heat of catalytic converter
3) Ambient temperature
4) Random test glitches.
Paul Coninx, a well-know opponent of such I/M programs as Drive Clean, has
chronicled the saga of a Cavalier (or Sunfire, I forget which) that was
taken to eleven different test stations as an experimnet. This car failed
about half the time and passed about half the time, with some wildly
different results. Nothing at all was done to the car in between.
> I think we, the consumers as
> drivers, are shafted again by our government.
No kidding.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
10-23-2005, 06:04 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Z4T6f.2727$Nj3.124325@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> By the way what does "cleaning the EGR ports" mean ?
Using a slide hammer to pull the EGR plugs in the intake manifold, shooting
some spray into the ports, poking around a bit with some drill bits, and
hammering in some fresh plugs.
http://home.comcast.net/~em-engineering/T2T013.pdf
10-23-2005, 06:04 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Z4T6f.2727$Nj3.124325@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> By the way what does "cleaning the EGR ports" mean ?
Using a slide hammer to pull the EGR plugs in the intake manifold, shooting
some spray into the ports, poking around a bit with some drill bits, and
hammering in some fresh plugs.
http://home.comcast.net/~em-engineering/T2T013.pdf
10-23-2005, 06:13 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96F86308D408Ftegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
>
> > I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> > and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> > those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> > ports ($200) it passed the test.
>
>
> That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
> promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
> drivers for repair money.
>
> This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
> test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
> money.
>
>
He made an election promise to cancel this program and not to raise taxes.
I, an idiot who should know better not to trust politicians, fell for it.
Besides
I also wanted to see a fresh face in Ontario. But what a naive optimist I was.
Never again. No promise whatsoever can drag me to the polls for the rest
of my life. I know its is not honda related but I had to take this out of my
chest.
By the way what does "cleaning the EGR ports" mean ? I checked the EGR
valve and they did not remove it at all. Two years ago Canadian Tire charged me
over $100 to "decarbonize" and passed the test conditionally. I checked the
web and did not find any procedures but just some sprays into the carburetor
which is not applicable for fuel injection systems.
Thanks
10-23-2005, 06:13 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ontario Drive Clean Test Question
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96F86308D408Ftegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Dario Moreno" <NoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:t8f6f.12571$ns3.1224381@news20.bellglobal.com :
>
> > I have had my 92 Accord tested for Ontario Drive Clean
> > and Failed on NO test.After $350 out of my pocket that
> > those gangsters claimed to do a diagnostics ($150) and clean the EGR
> > ports ($200) it passed the test.
>
>
> That's how Ontario got the garages to agree to hosting the tests, by
> promising they've eventually get their $100,000 investment back by milking
> drivers for repair money.
>
> This is one reason McGuinty backed off his intention to repeal the smog
> test: The garages and related associations screamd blue murder about losing
> money.
>
>
He made an election promise to cancel this program and not to raise taxes.
I, an idiot who should know better not to trust politicians, fell for it.
Besides
I also wanted to see a fresh face in Ontario. But what a naive optimist I was.
Never again. No promise whatsoever can drag me to the polls for the rest
of my life. I know its is not honda related but I had to take this out of my
chest.
By the way what does "cleaning the EGR ports" mean ? I checked the EGR
valve and they did not remove it at all. Two years ago Canadian Tire charged me
over $100 to "decarbonize" and passed the test conditionally. I checked the
web and did not find any procedures but just some sprays into the carburetor
which is not applicable for fuel injection systems.
Thanks
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