Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or
engine knock/pinging. My engine timing is fine too. (I assume your
remark about adjusting timing every week is a typo?).
The clicking comes from either some solenoid attached to the firewall
(a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just
do not know.........
One has to have really sharp hearing (most of my passengers cannnot
hear the clicking) to hear this annoying click. In my case too, it
comes on occasionally, even when I am cruising at highway speeds. Grade
of gas does not matter as you say.
The car drives fine, and does 39-41 mpg on highway. (I have been to the
dealership once, just to get this sound diagnosed.........unfortunately
none of the mechanics could hear it).
My low-tech (self-defeating?) solution.......just lower the driver side
window a crack whenever the clicking appears.......then you cannot hear
it anymore.......
If you find the culprit please post......in the past, there have been
posts by others in this newsgroup on this mystery clicking as
well.......but no one is any-the-wiser.....

sharx333 wrote:
> Hi, my 1.6L 4-cylinder Civic often makes a "clicking" noise, especially
> when under load in too high a gear. Sometimes even at the "correct"
> gear, when accelerating.
>
> Is this pinging, pinking, tappet noise, detonation, spark knock, etc?
> I've searched the posts, but I'm now more confused. Some people say
> "pinging" is the same as tappet noise, which is harmless, while some
> say pinging = detonation, which is bad.
>
> So which is it, really, and what could be causing it on my engine?
>
> Thanks!

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
Does this rule out knocking or detonation?

I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
precisely this reason also. But still no luck.

Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
little now.. Will post back about results.



ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
> for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or
> engine knock/pinging. My engine timing is fine too. (I assume your
> remark about adjusting timing every week is a typo?).
> The clicking comes from either some solenoid attached to the firewall
> (a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just
> do not know.........

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
Does this rule out knocking or detonation?

I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
precisely this reason also. But still no luck.

Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
little now.. Will post back about results.



ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
> for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or
> engine knock/pinging. My engine timing is fine too. (I assume your
> remark about adjusting timing every week is a typo?).
> The clicking comes from either some solenoid attached to the firewall
> (a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just
> do not know.........

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
Does this rule out knocking or detonation?

I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
precisely this reason also. But still no luck.

Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
little now.. Will post back about results.



ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
> for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or
> engine knock/pinging. My engine timing is fine too. (I assume your
> remark about adjusting timing every week is a typo?).
> The clicking comes from either some solenoid attached to the firewall
> (a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just
> do not know.........

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

> ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
>> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
>> for almost 3-4 years.
sharx333 wrote:
> ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
> the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
> Does this rule out knocking or detonation?
>
> I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
> replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
> the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
> precisely this reason also. But still no luck.
>
> Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
> little now.. Will post back about results.

Are you sure that sound is coming from in front of you?

I had a mystery sound like yours that turned out to be the two latches
on the rear seat back that you release to lay it flat.

The slight movement of the seat while traveling down the road was
causing the latch to slide sideways and as it did a bit of sticktion
made a little click as it let go. A smear of grease on the parts concerned
instantly fixed it! (Note to self - it needs doing again now two years
later!).


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

> ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
>> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
>> for almost 3-4 years.
sharx333 wrote:
> ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
> the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
> Does this rule out knocking or detonation?
>
> I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
> replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
> the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
> precisely this reason also. But still no luck.
>
> Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
> little now.. Will post back about results.

Are you sure that sound is coming from in front of you?

I had a mystery sound like yours that turned out to be the two latches
on the rear seat back that you release to lay it flat.

The slight movement of the seat while traveling down the road was
causing the latch to slide sideways and as it did a bit of sticktion
made a little click as it let go. A smear of grease on the parts concerned
instantly fixed it! (Note to self - it needs doing again now two years
later!).


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

> ah1244@wayne.edu wrote:
>> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now
>> for almost 3-4 years.
sharx333 wrote:
> ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's
> the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*.
> Does this rule out knocking or detonation?
>
> I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was
> replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought
> the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for
> precisely this reason also. But still no luck.
>
> Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a
> little now.. Will post back about results.

Are you sure that sound is coming from in front of you?

I had a mystery sound like yours that turned out to be the two latches
on the rear seat back that you release to lay it flat.

The slight movement of the seat while traveling down the road was
causing the latch to slide sideways and as it did a bit of sticktion
made a little click as it let go. A smear of grease on the parts concerned
instantly fixed it! (Note to self - it needs doing again now two years
later!).


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.

It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?

Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?

I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.

It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?

Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?

I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.

It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?

Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?

I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

sharx333 wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
> As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.
>
> It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
> cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
> I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
> wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?
>
> Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
> make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?
>
> I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
> wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).
>
did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not,
your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically
advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to
set base.

also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing
are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to
make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed?

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

sharx333 wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
> As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.
>
> It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
> cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
> I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
> wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?
>
> Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
> make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?
>
> I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
> wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).
>
did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not,
your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically
advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to
set base.

also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing
are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to
make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed?

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

sharx333 wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
> As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.
>
> It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
> cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
> I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
> wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?
>
> Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
> make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?
>
> I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
> wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).
>
did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not,
your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically
advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to
set base.

also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing
are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to
make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed?

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

Jim: Yes, I did set the timing with the 2P connector jumped. It seems
the timing really was advanced by about 1 degree.

Very interesting that you mentioned the timing belt. It was in fact
replaced last week, but by a very good mechanic, and I closely watched
the entire process (took a few hours). And I've had this "pinging" even
with the old belt. Still, I'd like to be sure.

How can I test you theory out?




jim beam wrote:
> sharx333 wrote:
> > Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
> > As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.
> >
> > It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
> > cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
> > I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
> > wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?
> >
> > Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
> > make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?
> >
> > I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
> > wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).
> >
> did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not,
> your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically
> advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to
> set base.
>
> also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing
> are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to
> make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed?

Re: Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
 

Jim: Yes, I did set the timing with the 2P connector jumped. It seems
the timing really was advanced by about 1 degree.

Very interesting that you mentioned the timing belt. It was in fact
replaced last week, but by a very good mechanic, and I closely watched
the entire process (took a few hours). And I've had this "pinging" even
with the old belt. Still, I'd like to be sure.

How can I test you theory out?




jim beam wrote:
> sharx333 wrote:
> > Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed.
> > As it turned out, the timing was too advanced.
> >
> > It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would
> > cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So
> > I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it
> > wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock?
> >
> > Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to
> > make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant?
> >
> > I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the
> > wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH).
> >
> did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not,
> your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically
> advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to
> set base.
>
> also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing
> are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to
> make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed?