y_p_w

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119386504.090560.35770@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> > I don't think it's an urban legend - at least not about Bosch
> > platinums.
> > Their aftermarket platinum plugs feature a thin platinum wire buried
> > flush against the end of the insulator. There's no "heat range" per
> > se to them. My mechanic has nothing but bad things to say about
> > using them in Japanese makes. They had unusual failures where the
> > center electrode just vaporized away. Just look at the picture:
> >
> > <http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/SparkPlugs/PlatinumPlus4>
> >
> I used Bosch platinums in a turbo Volvo (1985) and that very thing
> happened within a year or so. No electrode left.

Bosch claims that the pure platinum wire will resist erosion. However,
it's a tiny tip (maybe .2 mm) and the only path for heat to travel out
of the center electrode. A typical platinum plug has a 2 mm wide
nickel alloy tip to transfer heat to the core.

y_p_w

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119386504.090560.35770@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> > I don't think it's an urban legend - at least not about Bosch
> > platinums.
> > Their aftermarket platinum plugs feature a thin platinum wire buried
> > flush against the end of the insulator. There's no "heat range" per
> > se to them. My mechanic has nothing but bad things to say about
> > using them in Japanese makes. They had unusual failures where the
> > center electrode just vaporized away. Just look at the picture:
> >
> > <http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/SparkPlugs/PlatinumPlus4>
> >
> I used Bosch platinums in a turbo Volvo (1985) and that very thing
> happened within a year or so. No electrode left.

Bosch claims that the pure platinum wire will resist erosion. However,
it's a tiny tip (maybe .2 mm) and the only path for heat to travel out
of the center electrode. A typical platinum plug has a 2 mm wide
nickel alloy tip to transfer heat to the core.

John Horner

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119386504.090560.35770@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
>
>>I don't think it's an urban legend - at least not about Bosch
>>platinums.
>>Their aftermarket platinum plugs feature a thin platinum wire buried
>>flush against the end of the insulator. There's no "heat range" per
>>se to them. My mechanic has nothing but bad things to say about
>>using them in Japanese makes. They had unusual failures where the
>>center electrode just vaporized away. Just look at the picture:
>>
>><http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/SparkPlugs/PlatinumPlus4>
>>
> I used Bosch platinums in a turbo Volvo (1985) and that very thing happened
> within a year or so. No electrode left.
>
> Mike
>
>

I also had bad results with Bosch Platinums in a first generation VW
Passat in the early 1990s. I don't think the issues are
Japanese/European vehicle correlated at all.

John

John Horner

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119386504.090560.35770@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
>
>>I don't think it's an urban legend - at least not about Bosch
>>platinums.
>>Their aftermarket platinum plugs feature a thin platinum wire buried
>>flush against the end of the insulator. There's no "heat range" per
>>se to them. My mechanic has nothing but bad things to say about
>>using them in Japanese makes. They had unusual failures where the
>>center electrode just vaporized away. Just look at the picture:
>>
>><http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/SparkPlugs/PlatinumPlus4>
>>
> I used Bosch platinums in a turbo Volvo (1985) and that very thing happened
> within a year or so. No electrode left.
>
> Mike
>
>

I also had bad results with Bosch Platinums in a first generation VW
Passat in the early 1990s. I don't think the issues are
Japanese/European vehicle correlated at all.

John

mopa

Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
Platinum plugs all together?

Is the electrode the middle part of the plug, that looks like a piece
of flint?

thanks for your help folks

mopa

Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
Platinum plugs all together?

Is the electrode the middle part of the plug, that looks like a piece
of flint?

thanks for your help folks

TeGGeR®

"mopa" <buttakid@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1120539343.489422.94330@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com:

> Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
> plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
> Platinum plugs all together?


Don't use Bosch platinums. NGK or Denso are OK. All three manufacturers
make both platinum and regular plugs.


>
> Is the electrode the middle part of the plug, that looks like a piece
> of flint?


You have at least TWO electrodes:
1) The LIVE electrode is the one in the middle inside the white ceramic.
The other end of it connects to the spark plug wire.
2) The GROUND electrode is off to one side, and usually curves over top of
the LIVE electrode. The distance between them is referred to as the "gap".

Some plugs have more than one GROUND electrode, and some specialized plugs
have as many as four.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

"mopa" <buttakid@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1120539343.489422.94330@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com:

> Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
> plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
> Platinum plugs all together?


Don't use Bosch platinums. NGK or Denso are OK. All three manufacturers
make both platinum and regular plugs.


>
> Is the electrode the middle part of the plug, that looks like a piece
> of flint?


You have at least TWO electrodes:
1) The LIVE electrode is the one in the middle inside the white ceramic.
The other end of it connects to the spark plug wire.
2) The GROUND electrode is off to one side, and usually curves over top of
the LIVE electrode. The distance between them is referred to as the "gap".

Some plugs have more than one GROUND electrode, and some specialized plugs
have as many as four.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

John Horner

mopa wrote:
> Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
> plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
> Platinum plugs all together?
>

NGK and Denso both make a variety of spark plug types. IMO the only
difference between the various grades is the expected useable service
life. The longest life plugs are the Iridium type, second longest is
Platinum, shortest is conventional. Use any of the NGK or Denso plugs
in your Honda without fear, and set your change interval based on the
type.

John

John Horner

mopa wrote:
> Ok, so point blank? don't use Bosch Platinum plugs? use NGK or Denso
> plugs? are those Platinum, or should I just forget about using
> Platinum plugs all together?
>

NGK and Denso both make a variety of spark plug types. IMO the only
difference between the various grades is the expected useable service
life. The longest life plugs are the Iridium type, second longest is
Platinum, shortest is conventional. Use any of the NGK or Denso plugs
in your Honda without fear, and set your change interval based on the
type.

John

mopa

What sparkplugs do you guys use? Platinum or the el-cheapo?

and what one do you perfer is the best NGK or Denso?

So I assume that means I should rip out the Bosch that I installed?
right, or would it be safe for me to keep them in there for a few
months, before they need to be replaced. Anyways, why are they so bad?

mopa

What sparkplugs do you guys use? Platinum or the el-cheapo?

and what one do you perfer is the best NGK or Denso?

So I assume that means I should rip out the Bosch that I installed?
right, or would it be safe for me to keep them in there for a few
months, before they need to be replaced. Anyways, why are they so bad?

y_p_w

mopa wrote:
> What sparkplugs do you guys use? Platinum or the el-cheapo?

For your car. I'd just recommend standard NGK or Denso plugs
changed every 15-20K miles. Installation in your car is easy,
and there's no performance advantage to standard plugs changed
more often. Less than $8 a set, and more frequent changes force
you to check to plugs for potential engine problems.

> and what one do you perfer is the best NGK or Denso?

Both are fine.

> So I assume that means I should rip out the Bosch that I installed?
> right, or would it be safe for me to keep them in there for a few
> months, before they need to be replaced. Anyways, why are they so bad?

I'd say pull 'em out if they cause any problems. You may not get
any.

Most platinum plugs are tolerant of a wide heat range. BTW - I
was wrong about there not being a "heat range" with Bosch plats.
It's just that the thin platinum wire isn't a very capable means
of transferring heat. The problem is the basic design.

Like it was said, the aftermarket Bosch platinum plug is a rather
unconventional design. It features a thin platinum center electrode
that doesn't extend beyond the tip. They rely on the platinum
being able to withstand the additional heat. Sometimes it gets
hotter than platinum can withstand. There have been reports of
strange failures such as the nose cone separating from the body,
or the platinum wire just vaporizing away or separating.

I think it's telling that several German carmakers (incl BMW) have
gone to NGK for their OEM platinum plugs. There seems to be this
mystique that a German manufacturer must mean better quality.
Bosch makes some pretty good stuff for OEM. Their spark plugs and
O2 sensors are notorious for failing spectacularly.

y_p_w

mopa wrote:
> What sparkplugs do you guys use? Platinum or the el-cheapo?

For your car. I'd just recommend standard NGK or Denso plugs
changed every 15-20K miles. Installation in your car is easy,
and there's no performance advantage to standard plugs changed
more often. Less than $8 a set, and more frequent changes force
you to check to plugs for potential engine problems.

> and what one do you perfer is the best NGK or Denso?

Both are fine.

> So I assume that means I should rip out the Bosch that I installed?
> right, or would it be safe for me to keep them in there for a few
> months, before they need to be replaced. Anyways, why are they so bad?

I'd say pull 'em out if they cause any problems. You may not get
any.

Most platinum plugs are tolerant of a wide heat range. BTW - I
was wrong about there not being a "heat range" with Bosch plats.
It's just that the thin platinum wire isn't a very capable means
of transferring heat. The problem is the basic design.

Like it was said, the aftermarket Bosch platinum plug is a rather
unconventional design. It features a thin platinum center electrode
that doesn't extend beyond the tip. They rely on the platinum
being able to withstand the additional heat. Sometimes it gets
hotter than platinum can withstand. There have been reports of
strange failures such as the nose cone separating from the body,
or the platinum wire just vaporizing away or separating.

I think it's telling that several German carmakers (incl BMW) have
gone to NGK for their OEM platinum plugs. There seems to be this
mystique that a German manufacturer must mean better quality.
Bosch makes some pretty good stuff for OEM. Their spark plugs and
O2 sensors are notorious for failing spectacularly.