poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)

now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but wondering
what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?

robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Rob B wrote:
>
> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but wondering
> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb


Synthetics will always find a place to leak if the seal system is old or weak.

Better to have stuck with the Castrol. Penzoil is crap.

JT

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in
news:grZxf.7917$%W1.5737@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net:

> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> wondering what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb
>
>
>


yo d00d.

got A hi-mileage Teg, dig? yo

it g0t 257k mi on It

i always use castrol gtx 5W-30 from mile 1 (bot nu, yo)

oil consumPtion be 2k mi to the qt no leaks yo

dig?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Rob B wrote:
>
> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> wondering what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>

> high mileage civics

'88 Civic DX.
242,000 mi.

> what oil U burn ?

It burns gas not oil, no leaks either.
I don't need to add any between 3K mi oil change intervals.
Castrol GTX 10w/40 nearly all of it's life.

If your car insists on burning oil instead of gas, then you might need to
check the PCV valve. Wait, do you have one of those high flow air filters?
As discussed previously on this newsgroup, they lead to accelerated aging of
your engine.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:43C89608.A2AB369@spam.now...
> Rob B wrote:
> >
> > i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
> >
> > now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> > wondering what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
> >
>
> > high mileage civics
>
> '88 Civic DX.
> 242,000 mi.
>
> > what oil U burn ?
>
> It burns gas not oil, no leaks either.
> I don't need to add any between 3K mi oil change intervals.
> Castrol GTX 10w/40 nearly all of it's life.
>
> If your car insists on burning oil instead of gas, then you might need to
> check the PCV valve. Wait, do you have one of those high flow air
filters?
> As discussed previously on this newsgroup, they lead to accelerated aging
of
> your engine.

i have 197k '93 civic
no performance anything added, just stock car with only oem standard parts

maybe switch back to castrol gtx next oil change

thanks for info

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns974AE34639B94tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:grZxf.7917$%W1.5737@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net:
>
> > i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
> >
> > now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> > wondering what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
> >
> > robb
> >
>
> yo d00d.
>
> got A hi-mileage Teg, dig? yo
>
> it g0t 257k mi on It
>
> i always use castrol gtx 5W-30 from mile 1 (bot nu, yo)
>
> oil consumPtion be 2k mi to the qt no leaks yo
>
> dig?
>

Dear teggy,
May this news post find you well. You seem a bit taxed, drawn or drunken. Ah
yes, there is the information i had requested in the original posting to
this news group. Castrol GTX 5w30 is the oil you wish to submit as your
champion in the lubrication of honda automobiles engines. Castrol GTX is
quite a fine choice in accordance with the many honda enthusiasts that
frequent this remarkable newsgroup.

I would like to thank you for taking the time from your exhausting day to
help an amateur car care person wrangle a few more miles out the beloved
asphalt chariot.

Thanks again,
robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:43C86A18.BF44EC2E@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>
>
> Rob B wrote:
> >
> > i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
> >
> > now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
wondering
> > what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
> >
> > robb
>
>
> Synthetics will always find a place to leak if the seal system is old or
weak.
>
> Better to have stuck with the Castrol. Penzoil is crap.
>
> JT

Thanks, i'll be switching back to castrol GTX, seems to be popular choice
robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Eric wrote:
> Rob B wrote:
>> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>>
>> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
>> wondering what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>>
>
>> high mileage civics
>
> '88 Civic DX.
> 242,000 mi.
>
>> what oil U burn ?
>
> It burns gas not oil, no leaks either.
> I don't need to add any between 3K mi oil change intervals.
> Castrol GTX 10w/40 nearly all of it's life.
>
> If your car insists on burning oil instead of gas, then you might need to
> check the PCV valve. Wait, do you have one of those high flow air filters?
> As discussed previously on this newsgroup, they lead to accelerated aging of
> your engine.


and depletion of your wallet.

almost all the motorcycles ive had for the past 15 years have OEM foam
filters. the one on my 400cc even has 2 layers with 2 different densities.

the outer layer is 1/3rd the thickness of the filter and uses a really
porous foam, like some home air filtration systems use. the inner 2/3rds
are more dense, like eggcrate foam.

take it out, clean in hot soapy water, gently wring and squeeze dry in a
towel, then spray a light coat of foam filter oil on it.

if honda can design cars with 100k spark plugs and "lifetime" gas
filters, why not have an OEM cleanable foam filter? would it require too
big an airbox to get the proper flow rate between cleanings?

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Rob B wrote:
> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but wondering
> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb

'92 EX 138k miles. Mobil 1. I think I haven't had any problems caused
by the oil in any car or motorbike as long as it's changed on occasion.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in
news:5A1yf.9204$M%4.5554@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net:

>

<snip gibberish>


>>
>
> Dear teggy,
> May this news post find you well. You seem a bit taxed, drawn or
> drunken.



Yeah, you're right. I had six beers and made a dumb post. Sorry about that.

I was making fun of your poor capitalization, something exhibited by many
youthful posters who think it's cool or avant garde, but which I find
unimpressive.




> Ah yes, there is the information i had requested in the
> original posting to this news group. Castrol GTX 5w30 is the oil you
> wish to submit as your champion in the lubrication of honda
> automobiles engines. Castrol GTX is quite a fine choice in accordance
> with the many honda enthusiasts that frequent this remarkable
> newsgroup.



The reason I originally started using Castrol GTX was because of a test of
various oils done by Consumer Reports about about fifteen years ago.
Castrol GTX was one of the top-rated oils in those tests.

Surely things have changed since then, as oil formulations now are rather
different than they were in 1991. Engine metallurgy is not greatly changed
from fifteen years ago, but engine lubricating oils are vastly improved
overall with regard to performance in engines, even with the reductions in
zinc and sulfur. However but I've found no compelling reason to switch to
another brand of oil.

My personal suspicion is that the type of oil one uses is relatively
unimportant compared to oil and filter change frequency.




>
> I would like to thank you for taking the time from your exhausting day
> to help an amateur car care person wrangle a few more miles out the
> beloved asphalt chariot.



Don't I sound more coherent this morning?




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

I had a 1986 Subaru hatchback. Used 10-30, changed oil alway between 5,000
and 6,000 miles. Went 305,000 miles over 11 years before I sold it with NO
engine problems. (kept it tuned up and otherwise maintained of course). I
would have kept it longer just to see how long engine would last except it
rusted out pretty bad.

This 3,000 mile oil change stuff is unecessary and wastefull and a lot of
crap just to sell oil changes IMO. As for synthentic oil, dirt still gets
in and churns around just like with ordinary oil so I believe it should be
changed just as frequently so why pay more for it?




"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:grZxf.7917$%W1.5737@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> wondering
> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb
>
>
>

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns974B5DB81B7E1tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:5A1yf.9204$M%4.5554@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net:
>
> <snip gibberish>
> >
> > Dear teggy,
> > May this news post find you well. You seem a bit taxed, drawn or
> > drunken.
>
> Yeah, you're right. I had six beers and made a dumb post. Sorry about
that.
>
> I was making fun of your poor capitalization, something exhibited by many
> youthful posters who think it's cool or avant garde, but which I find
> unimpressive.
>

well i consider myself youthful (in spirit) but that is relative and i am
certainly not cool i am just practical / lazy

i am a three finger typist, finding shift with pinky and then hunting for
the letter causes 2 problems (1) too much time or (2) hitting caps lock ,
then backspace alot and start again which violates problem 1

also an unfortunate problem derived from my early carreer, a problem not
unlike those old draftsmen engineers that write everything in CAPITAL BLOCK
LETTERS

>
> > Ah yes, there is the information i had requested in the
> > original posting to this news group. Castrol GTX 5w30 is the oil you
> > wish to submit as your champion in the lubrication of honda
> > automobiles engines. Castrol GTX is quite a fine choice in accordance
> > with the many honda enthusiasts that frequent this remarkable
> > newsgroup.
>
> The reason I originally started using Castrol GTX was because of a test of
> various oils done by Consumer Reports about about fifteen years ago.
> Castrol GTX was one of the top-rated oils in those tests.
>

i was going by some recent oil study surveys showing propeties such as
viscocity index, thermal break down (flash) and formulation additives
viscocity improvers, ( Eg Mobil 1 and Amsoil uses no viscocity improver
additives in the 5w30 and 10w30 oils)

high on list were... Amsoil, Red Line, Mobil 1, Castrol GTX

could not find Amsoil or Red Lne local but Mobil 1 can be found at wally
world

>
> Surely things have changed since then, as oil formulations now are rather
> different than they were in 1991. Engine metallurgy is not greatly changed
> from fifteen years ago, but engine lubricating oils are vastly improved
> overall with regard to performance in engines, even with the reductions in
> zinc and sulfur. However but I've found no compelling reason to switch to
> another brand of oil.
>
> My personal suspicion is that the type of oil one uses is relatively
> unimportant compared to oil and filter change frequency.
>
> >
> > I would like to thank you for taking the time from your exhausting day
> > to help an amateur car care person wrangle a few more miles out the
> > beloved asphalt chariot.
>
> Don't I sound more coherent this morning?
>

yes, welcome back ;)
I am thinking of kicking the synthetic habit , hope my asphalt chariot does
not get withdrawl symptoms
thanks for the info
robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

On 2006-01-14, Rob B <RobB@where.on.net> wrote:

> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?

'87 Civic Si... 240K miles... Mobil 1. Rocker cover leaked, but
since repaired.

nb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Fred Fartalot wrote:
>
> I had a 1986 Subaru hatchback. Used 10-30, changed oil alway between 5,000
> and 6,000 miles. Went 305,000 miles over 11 years before I sold it with NO
> engine problems. (kept it tuned up and otherwise maintained of course). I
> would have kept it longer just to see how long engine would last except it
> rusted out pretty bad.
>
> This 3,000 mile oil change stuff is unecessary and wastefull and a lot of
> crap just to sell oil changes IMO. As for synthentic oil, dirt still gets
> in and churns around just like with ordinary oil so I believe it should be
> changed just as frequently so why pay more for it?
>
>


GTX changed every 5K is fine. I prefer dino oil for engines because the
"crap" is manufactured during the combustion process and must be dealt
with regardless of the type of oil used.

JT

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Fred Fartalot wrote:
> I had a 1986 Subaru hatchback. Used 10-30, changed oil alway between 5,000
> and 6,000 miles. Went 305,000 miles over 11 years before I sold it with NO
> engine problems. (kept it tuned up and otherwise maintained of course). I
> would have kept it longer just to see how long engine would last except it
> rusted out pretty bad.
>
> This 3,000 mile oil change stuff is unecessary and wastefull and a lot of
> crap just to sell oil changes IMO. As for synthentic oil, dirt still gets
> in and churns around just like with ordinary oil so I believe it should be
> changed just as frequently so why pay more for it?

After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
it's changed at relatively decent intervals. I start feeling guilty
after 5k or so without a change. A few extra bucks are OK with me. Yep-
Castrol would work just fine too.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns974B5DB81B7E1tegger@207.14.113.17...
>
> My personal suspicion is that the type of oil one uses is relatively
> unimportant compared to oil and filter change frequency.
>
I think that is broadly true. I changed to synthetic primarily because I
have a 1985 turbo Volvo. Those beasts from that era have an unusual pair of
characteristics. First, they don't have a PCV valve, but instead have an
oil/air separator (a plastic box with a baffle) on the top of the block. To
make that work, the second oddity comes in - the ventilation is like a
breather. The crankcase miasma, with a significant amount of oil mist
remaining, is introduced just past the AMM. The oil mist coats the inside of
the entire induction system from the turbo through the intercooler (which
must be drained periodically) and the throttle body and idle air control
valve. Dino oil gradually builds up hard deposits that resemble packed dust
that has a trace of oil in it. When the deposits block any part of the
system (and mine eventually blocked the 3/8 inch hose because I thought it
was too big to plug up and didn't clean it) the engine will evacuate its oil
rapidly. I lost 3 quarts out the dipstick tube before the next freeway exit
came up.

Anyway, the maximum guru in the alt.autos.volvo forum reported that doesn't
happen with synthetic, so I made the leap. I was so pleased with the results
I changed our other cars to synthetic. The Volvo has not needed the yearly
throttle body or idle air control valve cleanings with synthetic that it did
with dinosaur oil.

Reading all this, you are probably asking, "What does this have to do with
Hondas?" And you are right... as you say, most cars do fine with dino juice.
Maybe synthetic will improve PCV valve operation and life, but since
properly maintained Honda engines usually outlast the rest of the car I
don't see that it is crucial. "Relatively unimportant" certainly describes
it.

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

I don't burn or leak any oil and neither does my car....

TL




"Rob B" <RobB@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:grZxf.7917$%W1.5737@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but
> wondering
> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb
>
>
>

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Car: 1991 Civic 3-Dr Hatchback, 1500 CC
Miles: 163,000
Fuel Efficiency: 39 - 41 MPG/Highway
Oil: Quaker State 5W-30 in winter, 10W-30 in summer, religiously change
it every 4000 miles.
Does not burn any oil yet..........knock on wood!

Rob B wrote:
> i switched from penzoil to castrol GTX to (mobil 1 + mobil 5000 blend)
>
> now it seems to burn more oil or leak more (maybe not related) but wondering
> what oil you high mileage civic DIYrs are using ?
>
> robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

merlotbrougham@hotmail.com wrote:
> After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
> that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
> don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
> it's changed at relatively decent intervals.


did toyota ever find out what was behind the "sludging" problem?

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Car: 1991 Civic 4-Dr Sedan, 1.5L
Miles: 173k
2005 Fuel Efficiency stats:
Overall average and st. dev.= 41plus or minus 2.3 mpg (or
+/- 6%)
Warm months average = 42 mpg
Cold months average = 40 mpg (so a decline of about 5% from
summer to winter)
Range = 38 mpg (Feb fillup) to 47 mpg (June fillup)
Oil: Pennzoil 5W-30 for life of car, changed about every 5k
miles or six months.

Seems to burn maybe one-half quart at most between oil
changes, but I'm really not sure. In the last few years I
always end up adding some at some point between oil changes.

I read a report on the net last year about using synthetic
oil in cars. Some guy sampled data from people and wrote it
up. Not a lot of data but enough to make it a worthwhile
read, IIRC. Seems that, in older cars, seal failure
simultaneous to switching to synthetic oil is very rare, but
does occur. It wasn't entirely clear that the switch caused
the seal failure.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

SoCalMike wrote:

> merlotbrougham@hotmail.com wrote:
>> After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
>> that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
>> don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
>> it's changed at relatively decent intervals.
>
>
> did toyota ever find out what was behind the "sludging" problem?
>

Even though they covered the cost to avoid bad publicity, the real reason
was owner neglect.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Q-qdnanv4tPFRlTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> merlotbrougham@hotmail.com wrote:
>> After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
>> that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
>> don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
>> it's changed at relatively decent intervals.
>
>
> did toyota ever find out what was behind the "sludging" problem?

They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as
being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat
difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil
under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota
maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any engine
that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to speculation
that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for the V6.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the link on that.

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Elle wrote:

> Car: 1991 Civic 4-Dr Sedan, 1.5L
> Miles: 173k
> 2005 Fuel Efficiency stats:
> Overall average and st. dev.= 41plus or minus 2.3 mpg (or
> +/- 6%)
> Warm months average = 42 mpg
> Cold months average = 40 mpg (so a decline of about 5% from
> summer to winter)
> Range = 38 mpg (Feb fillup) to 47 mpg (June fillup)
> Oil: Pennzoil 5W-30 for life of car, changed about every 5k
> miles or six months.

I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was crap.
I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
have had no problems with any of them.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:QYkyf.7630$ZA2.7019@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>
> I read a report on the net last year about using synthetic
> oil in cars. Some guy sampled data from people and wrote it
> up. Not a lot of data but enough to make it a worthwhile
> read, IIRC. Seems that, in older cars, seal failure
> simultaneous to switching to synthetic oil is very rare, but
> does occur. It wasn't entirely clear that the switch caused
> the seal failure.
>
>
I have changed three older (130K miles to 230K miles) cars over to synthetic
in the last few years and haven't had leaks on any of them, but three cars
isn't what I'd call a lot of data, either.

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns974C559809255hightechmisfit@207.35.177.134 ...
>
> I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was
> crap.
> I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
> have had no problems with any of them.

My motorhead brother says Havoline tends to leave carbon deposits, so I
never even gave it a chance to have its way with me. (Although I have to
wonder if somebody who would shoehorn a 454 into a Vega is the best guide!)

I have used Pennzoil, Valvoline and Quaker State pretty much interchangably
over the last three decades. I've only been using Mobil One for a few years,
but so far I'm happy.

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:QYkyf.7630$ZA2.7019@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> Car: 1991 Civic 4-Dr Sedan, 1.5L
> Miles: 173k
> 2005 Fuel Efficiency stats:
> Overall average and st. dev.= 41plus or minus 2.3 mpg (or
> +/- 6%)
> Warm months average = 42 mpg
> Cold months average = 40 mpg (so a decline of about 5% from
> summer to winter)
> Range = 38 mpg (Feb fillup) to 47 mpg (June fillup)
> Oil: Pennzoil 5W-30 for life of car, changed about every 5k
> miles or six months.
>
> Seems to burn maybe one-half quart at most between oil
> changes, but I'm really not sure. In the last few years I
> always end up adding some at some point between oil changes.
>

i thought i had a leak but it turned out that i did spill more oil over the
side than i though i did which explained where all the oil came from ( that
is, i washed it off and it has not returned )
so i must be burning that missing oil which is about the same as yours 1/2
qt between changes

>
> I read a report on the net last year about using synthetic
> oil in cars. Some guy sampled data from people and wrote it
> up. Not a lot of data but enough to make it a worthwhile
> read, IIRC. Seems that, in older cars, seal failure
> simultaneous to switching to synthetic oil is very rare, but
> does occur. It wasn't entirely clear that the switch caused
> the seal failure.
>
Some web site i was reading claimed that synthetics tend to run a bit
thinner than dino at high temps and that might be cause of oil leaks at the
seals. But i do not know how much to believe that when the weight rating of
the oil 5w30 (etc) should indicate the oil thinning behavior within some
margin so that choosing the proper oil weight would make that a non-issue

then ther are the claims that all the additives to the dino oil (seal
conditioners , viscosity improver etc) are what keep the seals healthy in
the dino oil.

thanks for feedback
robb

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns974C559809255hightechmisfit@207.35.177.134 ...
> Elle wrote:
>
> > Car: 1991 Civic 4-Dr Sedan, 1.5L
> > Miles: 173k
> > 2005 Fuel Efficiency stats:
> > Overall average and st. dev.= 41plus or minus 2.3 mpg (or
> > +/- 6%)
> > Warm months average = 42 mpg
> > Cold months average = 40 mpg (so a decline of about 5% from
> > summer to winter)
> > Range = 38 mpg (Feb fillup) to 47 mpg (June fillup)
> > Oil: Pennzoil 5W-30 for life of car, changed about every 5k
> > miles or six months.
>
> I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was
crap.
> I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
> have had no problems with any of them.

I would too.

The best i can figure from techinical specs is that penzoil scored middle or
so along with oils like Shell and chevron supreme and valvoline all climate
etc

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote
> > I read a report on the net last year about using
synthetic
> > oil in cars. Some guy sampled data from people and wrote
it
> > up. Not a lot of data but enough to make it a worthwhile
> > read, IIRC. Seems that, in older cars, seal failure
> > simultaneous to switching to synthetic oil is very rare,
but
> > does occur. It wasn't entirely clear that the switch
caused
> > the seal failure.
> >
> >
> I have changed three older (130K miles to 230K miles) cars
over to synthetic
> in the last few years and haven't had leaks on any of
them, but three cars
> isn't what I'd call a lot of data, either.

I believe three "successes" out of three attempts actually
does have a fair amount of statistical significance attached
to it. It's even a little intuitive, IMO, that your little
home study indicates it's probably safe (maybe very safe) to
switch a high mileage car to synthetic.

The amateur (but fairly careful, all things considered)
study to which I refer above appears at
http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html

Summary:
74 cars total
-- Most of the cars studied had less than 100k miles. These
produced two leakers, one easily fixed by proper tightening
of various seal bolts. The second leaker demonstrated a
bizarre single leak at the "fuel pump pivot pin."

-- Clearly the cars with over 100k miles were a minority of
the sample, but not an insignificant one ISTM. They produced
two leakers, both 1975 Porsche 911s. Both began to leak some
20k miles after the switch.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote
> I would like to know why one other poster here said that
Pennzoil was crap.

I'm sure you know this, but to share my own view: Part of
the beauty of online fora open to the public is that they
denote in total ultimate marketplace of ideas. People can
and do post anything, substantiated or not. When what is
posted seems off-kilter, typically enough people respond
such that a reasonable person can arrive at a conclusion
that is useful.

With rare exceptions, this method of transmitting 'the best
information possible' is, simply, the best. Mathematical
proofs even exist that argue the more diverse a group of
problem solvers, the more likely the best solution will be
found.

> I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord
(all 5W-30) and
> have had no problems with any of them.

Over 20 years ago I knew young men who claimed Quaker State
caused more sludge than most. Maybe he was right--back then.
But I also think there is abundant documentation that oil
formulations have changed dramatically in 20+ years. So I
read reports on today's conventional oils with I hope an
open mind. I'm not going to switch my car from Pennzoil to
something else, but I don't reject anyone else's use of
anything else.

I am not switching to synthetic because I have the time to
do oil changes. My 91 Civic's oil change schedule also
forces me to crawl under the car for half an hour about
every six months and inspect (and clean up a bit) the
exhaust system, CV boots, my oil pan, etc. I think this
semi-annual or so inspection is important on an older car.

I realize that I might very well get better mileage with
synthetic, and it might improve engine longevity, too.

On the third hand, seems like we get plenty of reports here
of Hondas going over 300k miles on conventional oil.

If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
lot more open to switching to synthetic.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
> Elle wrote:
>
> > Car: 1991 Civic 4-Dr Sedan, 1.5L
> > Miles: 173k
> > 2005 Fuel Efficiency stats:
> > Overall average and st. dev.= 41plus or minus 2.3 mpg (or
> > +/- 6%)
> > Warm months average = 42 mpg
> > Cold months average = 40 mpg (so a decline of about 5% from
> > summer to winter)
> > Range = 38 mpg (Feb fillup) to 47 mpg (June fillup)
> > Oil: Pennzoil 5W-30 for life of car, changed about every 5k
> > miles or six months.
>
> I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was crap.
> I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
> have had no problems with any of them.



Uh, if you can't or couldn't tell the difference between Castrol and the
other two brands, it is beyond my capacity to help or educate you.

However, I do expect that Quaker State/Pennzoil may have cleaned up
their act after a lot of bad publicity a few years ago...

JT

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

My 98 DX Hatch has 280,000KM, original PCV valve (everything else under
the hood is still original...except timing belt, spark plug and air
filter). The car's been a regular beater since new and usually kisses
the Redline when in first or 2nd gear.

For the past 3 years, I've extended the oil change interval from
every 5000km to every 15,000km. The car looses about a quart every
3000km (less when not driven aggressively or during winter). Since the
Mobel-1 gets very expensive from constantly topping up (costing
$8/quart), I've since switched to Mobel-1 0w40 (instead of 5w30), in
the hopes that the heavier oil will reduce oil loss. It seems to work.
In my last oil change, I did about 20,000km and only needed 2 quarts
for topping up (normally, it should be twice as much).

The only downfall from having a base engine that's completely
broken-in for aggressive driving, is that upgraded to a more power full
GSR engine is unnecessary. I guess I'll have to content with the
public's assumption that I have something much more powerful under
the hood.

Pars

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Q-qdnanv4tPFRlTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> merlotbrougham@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
>>> that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
>>> don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
>>> it's changed at relatively decent intervals.
>>
>> did toyota ever find out what was behind the "sludging" problem?
>
> They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as
> being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat
> difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil
> under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota

oil gets hot, valve cover gets hotter. oil splashes on valve cover,
vapors attract on valve cover, both bake and get sludgy. sludge drops
down, impedes flow through pump strainer screen, etc? makes sense.

> maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any engine
> that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to speculation
> that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for the V6.

i heard some 4s were involved too. and ill bet a lot of em were just off
lease :)
>
> Unfortunately, I didn't save the link on that.
>
> Mike
>
>

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

Elle wrote:
> If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
> lot more open to switching to synthetic.

theres always walmart synthetic- $12 for a 5qt jug.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

pars wrote:
> $8/quart), I've since switched to Mobel-1 0w40 (instead of 5w30),

is that the stuff that had a red cap, now its yellow? is it labelled
"energy conserving", aka: has the starburst symbol?

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd
be a
> > lot more open to switching to synthetic.
>
> theres always walmart synthetic- $12 for a 5qt jug.

I meant that if I had money to throw away on the (apparently
only) outside possibility that there'd be a serious seal
failure, then I'd probably go for it.

Otherwise, I agree the price of the synthetic oil itself is
probably justified, given that it will require less frequent
oil changes.

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YZydnSDZcqeOaVfenZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Q-qdnanv4tPFRlTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> merlotbrougham@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> After all's said and done, probably peace of mind. There's no doubt
>>>> that synthetics and their additives are superior to dino oil, but I
>>>> don't know anyone who's had problems due to the oil either as long as
>>>> it's changed at relatively decent intervals.
>>>
>>> did toyota ever find out what was behind the "sludging" problem?
>>
>> They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as
>> being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat
>> difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil
>> under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota
>
> oil gets hot, valve cover gets hotter. oil splashes on valve cover, vapors
> attract on valve cover, both bake and get sludgy. sludge drops down,
> impedes flow through pump strainer screen, etc? makes sense.
>
>> maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any
>> engine that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to
>> speculation that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for
>> the V6.
>
> i heard some 4s were involved too. and ill bet a lot of em were just off
> lease :)

From a link on TeGGeR's FAQs: http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

i found Amsoil at the local Canadian Tire (canadian version of i guess
walmart but we have those too).

$10 a liter though, wow....
t

Rob B wrote:
>> <snip gibberish>
>> >
>[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> youthful posters who think it's cool or avant garde, but which I find
>> unimpressive.
>
>well i consider myself youthful (in spirit) but that is relative and i am
>certainly not cool i am just practical / lazy
>
>i am a three finger typist, finding shift with pinky and then hunting for
>the letter causes 2 problems (1) too much time or (2) hitting caps lock ,
>then backspace alot and start again which violates problem 1
>
>also an unfortunate problem derived from my early carreer, a problem not
>unlike those old draftsmen engineers that write everything in CAPITAL BLOCK
>LETTERS
>
>> > Ah yes, there is the information i had requested in the
>> > original posting to this news group. Castrol GTX 5w30 is the oil you
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> various oils done by Consumer Reports about about fifteen years ago.
>> Castrol GTX was one of the top-rated oils in those tests.
>
>i was going by some recent oil study surveys showing propeties such as
>viscocity index, thermal break down (flash) and formulation additives
>viscocity improvers, ( Eg Mobil 1 and Amsoil uses no viscocity improver
>additives in the 5w30 and 10w30 oils)
>
>high on list were... Amsoil, Red Line, Mobil 1, Castrol GTX
>
>could not find Amsoil or Red Lne local but Mobil 1 can be found at wally
>world
>
>> Surely things have changed since then, as oil formulations now are rather
>> different than they were in 1991. Engine metallurgy is not greatly changed
>[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
>> Don't I sound more coherent this morning?
>
>yes, welcome back ;)
>I am thinking of kicking the synthetic habit , hope my asphalt chariot does
>not get withdrawl symptoms
>thanks for the info
>robb

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200601/1

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

isn't tech 2000 (walmart brand) made by safety kleen? and arent they a used
oil recycler? just wondering if the stuff with the walmart label is in fact
reconditioned used oil??

i have no data to back that up, but dealt with safety kleen in my former
employ with a company that used them to dispose of hazardous waste.
(Furniture factory, our old used rags and sludge in the paint shop).

t

SoCalMike wrote:
>> If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
>> lot more open to switching to synthetic.
>
>theres always walmart synthetic- $12 for a 5qt jug.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200601/1

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:dGCyf.7997$ZA2.4620@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>
> I meant that if I had money to throw away on the (apparently
> only) outside possibility that there'd be a serious seal
> failure, then I'd probably go for it.
>
> Otherwise, I agree the price of the synthetic oil itself is
> probably justified, given that it will require less frequent
> oil changes.
>
>

I sure understand that. The risk/benefit on changing to synthetic really
isn't compelling on an older engine.

Mike

Re: poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?
 

"T L via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in message news:5a6cacfeb4eae@uwe...
>
> isn't tech 2000 (walmart brand) made by safety kleen? and arent they a
used
> oil recycler? just wondering if the stuff with the walmart label is in
fact
> reconditioned used oil??
>

from what i understand of synthetic oil production that would be probably
be a cheap way to get the base oil used to mfg the synthetic, i presume they
send it back through a refinement process to gather the base oil used for
various grades and since it is engineered oil then the oil produced is
probably not suspect ( ? )

>
> i have no data to back that up, but dealt with safety kleen in my former
> employ with a company that used them to dispose of hazardous waste.
> (Furniture factory, our old used rags and sludge in the paint shop).
>
> t
>
> SoCalMike wrote:
> >> If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
> >> lot more open to switching to synthetic.
> >
> >theres always walmart synthetic- $12 for a 5qt jug.

robb