Jason

I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission

My Honda was recently recalled due to:
"Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"

I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take the
car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care of
this problem.

While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it while
the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.

It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear shift
lever was in neutral.

Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall issue
mentioned above?

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

E. Meyer

On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
<jason@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
>
> My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
>
> I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take the
> car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care of
> this problem.
>
> While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it while
> the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
>
> It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear shift
> lever was in neutral.
>
> Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall issue
> mentioned above?

All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park and
Neutral, but not in any other gears.

E. Meyer

On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
<jason@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
>
> My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
>
> I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take the
> car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care of
> this problem.
>
> While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it while
> the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
>
> It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear shift
> lever was in neutral.
>
> Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall issue
> mentioned above?

All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park and
Neutral, but not in any other gears.

Jason

In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
<e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:

> On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
> jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
> <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
> >
> > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
> >
> > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take the
> > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care of
> > this problem.
> >
> > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it while
> > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
> >
> > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear shift
> > lever was in neutral.
> >
> > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall issue
> > mentioned above?
>
> All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park and
> Neutral, but not in any other gears.

Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Jason

In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
<e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:

> On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
> jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
> <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
> >
> > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
> >
> > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take the
> > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care of
> > this problem.
> >
> > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it while
> > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
> >
> > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear shift
> > lever was in neutral.
> >
> > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall issue
> > mentioned above?
>
> All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park and
> Neutral, but not in any other gears.

Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Randolph

Jason wrote:

> Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

They kind of do, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless you
put the transmission in park, and you can't shift out of park unless you
step on the brakes. I would say that a system that prevents you from
turning off the engine unless the transmission is in park sounds
dangerous. Interlock systems can (and do) fail. Imagine the lever being
jammed so you can't shift out of drive, and you can't turn off the
engine (because the transmission isn't in park) and you can't defeat the
system by putting your key in the slot by the shift lever, because the
key is stuck in the ignition.

The proposed interlock wouldn't be of much benefit anyway. To have a
problem, you would have to (1) forget to put the transmission in park,
(2) forget to remove the key from the ignition, and (3) forget to set
the parking brake. If you are that distracted, you could just as easily
exit the car with the parking brake off, transmission in neutral and
engine running.


================================================== =====
A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph

Randolph

Jason wrote:

> Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

They kind of do, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless you
put the transmission in park, and you can't shift out of park unless you
step on the brakes. I would say that a system that prevents you from
turning off the engine unless the transmission is in park sounds
dangerous. Interlock systems can (and do) fail. Imagine the lever being
jammed so you can't shift out of drive, and you can't turn off the
engine (because the transmission isn't in park) and you can't defeat the
system by putting your key in the slot by the shift lever, because the
key is stuck in the ignition.

The proposed interlock wouldn't be of much benefit anyway. To have a
problem, you would have to (1) forget to put the transmission in park,
(2) forget to remove the key from the ignition, and (3) forget to set
the parking brake. If you are that distracted, you could just as easily
exit the car with the parking brake off, transmission in neutral and
engine running.


================================================== =====
A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph

Paul

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
: In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
: <e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
:
: > On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
: > jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
: > <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
: >
: > >
: > > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
: > >
: > > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
: > > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
: > >
: > > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take
the
: > > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care
of
: > > this problem.
: > >
: > > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it
while
: > > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
: > >
: > > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear
shift
: > > lever was in neutral.
: > >
: > > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall
issue
: > > mentioned above?
: >
: > All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park
and
: > Neutral, but not in any other gears.
:
: Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
: person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
: position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
: was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
: it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
: they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
: makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
: start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
:
And I guess we can assume that those driving cars with manual transmissions
have enough snap to set the parking brake... or maybe we shoudn't allow cars
with manual transmissions, so as to forestall such problems.

Or... we could hope for some common sense and personal responsibility.

Just my opinion --

Paul

"These days I'm feeling all right, 'cept I can't tell my courage from my
desperation" -- the Boss

Paul

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
: In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
: <e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
:
: > On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
: > jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
: > <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
: >
: > >
: > > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
: > >
: > > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
: > > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
: > >
: > > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take
the
: > > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care
of
: > > this problem.
: > >
: > > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it
while
: > > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
: > >
: > > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear
shift
: > > lever was in neutral.
: > >
: > > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall
issue
: > > mentioned above?
: >
: > All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park
and
: > Neutral, but not in any other gears.
:
: Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
: person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
: position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
: was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
: it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
: they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
: makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
: start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
:
And I guess we can assume that those driving cars with manual transmissions
have enough snap to set the parking brake... or maybe we shoudn't allow cars
with manual transmissions, so as to forestall such problems.

Or... we could hope for some common sense and personal responsibility.

Just my opinion --

Paul

"These days I'm feeling all right, 'cept I can't tell my courage from my
desperation" -- the Boss

Jason

In article <424DBB0B.CD81D3E@junkmail.com>, Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
> > Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> > person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> > position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> > was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> > it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> > they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> > makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> > start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
>
> They kind of do, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless you
> put the transmission in park, and you can't shift out of park unless you
> step on the brakes. I would say that a system that prevents you from
> turning off the engine unless the transmission is in park sounds
> dangerous. Interlock systems can (and do) fail. Imagine the lever being
> jammed so you can't shift out of drive, and you can't turn off the
> engine (because the transmission isn't in park) and you can't defeat the
> system by putting your key in the slot by the shift lever, because the
> key is stuck in the ignition.
>
> The proposed interlock wouldn't be of much benefit anyway. To have a
> problem, you would have to (1) forget to put the transmission in park,
> (2) forget to remove the key from the ignition, and (3) forget to set
> the parking brake. If you are that distracted, you could just as easily
> exit the car with the parking brake off, transmission in neutral and
> engine running.

You made some great points that I failed to take into consideration. In
addition, I guess that it's much easier to tow a car when the gear shift
is in the neutral position.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Jason

In article <424DBB0B.CD81D3E@junkmail.com>, Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
> > Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> > person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> > position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> > was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> > it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> > they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> > makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> > start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
>
> They kind of do, you can't remove the key from the ignition unless you
> put the transmission in park, and you can't shift out of park unless you
> step on the brakes. I would say that a system that prevents you from
> turning off the engine unless the transmission is in park sounds
> dangerous. Interlock systems can (and do) fail. Imagine the lever being
> jammed so you can't shift out of drive, and you can't turn off the
> engine (because the transmission isn't in park) and you can't defeat the
> system by putting your key in the slot by the shift lever, because the
> key is stuck in the ignition.
>
> The proposed interlock wouldn't be of much benefit anyway. To have a
> problem, you would have to (1) forget to put the transmission in park,
> (2) forget to remove the key from the ignition, and (3) forget to set
> the parking brake. If you are that distracted, you could just as easily
> exit the car with the parking brake off, transmission in neutral and
> engine running.

You made some great points that I failed to take into consideration. In
addition, I guess that it's much easier to tow a car when the gear shift
is in the neutral position.

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Jason

In article <cYi3e.10166$z.3800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "Paul"
<paulDONTSPAMMEmueller@mindspring.com> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> : In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
> : <e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
> :
> : > On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
> : > jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
> : > <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
> : >
> : > >
> : > > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
> : > >
> : > > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> : > > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
> : > >
> : > > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take
> the
> : > > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care
> of
> : > > this problem.
> : > >
> : > > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it
> while
> : > > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
> : > >
> : > > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear
> shift
> : > > lever was in neutral.
> : > >
> : > > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall
> issue
> : > > mentioned above?
> : >
> : > All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park
> and
> : > Neutral, but not in any other gears.
> :
> : Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> : person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> : position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> : was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> : it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> : they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> : makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> : start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
> :
> And I guess we can assume that those driving cars with manual transmissions
> have enough snap to set the parking brake... or maybe we shoudn't allow cars
> with manual transmissions, so as to forestall such problems.
>
> Or... we could hope for some common sense and personal responsibility.
>
> Just my opinion --
>
> Paul

Paul,
Great points. It's been years since I have owned a vehicle that had a
manual transmission. I do recall that when I was a teenager that my older
brother left the car in neutral (standard transmission). It was on fairly
level ground. About two hours later--the car started to roll forward and
it ran into a fence post and damaged the bumper--our daddy was VERY upset.
My brother lost his rights to drive the family car for at least a month.
I'll never forget it. I always set the parking brake--probably because of
that incident.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Jason

In article <cYi3e.10166$z.3800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>, "Paul"
<paulDONTSPAMMEmueller@mindspring.com> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> : In article <BE730C71.C73B4%e52.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
> : <e52.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:
> :
> : > On 4/1/05 2:26 PM, in article
> : > jason-0104051226020001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Jason"
> : > <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
> : >
> : > >
> : > > I have a 1999 Honda Accord--4 cyld--auto. transmission
> : > >
> : > > My Honda was recently recalled due to:
> : > > "Ignition key is Removable with the Shift Lever out of Park"
> : > >
> : > > I tested my vehicle and it did not have the problem but I plan to take
> the
> : > > car to the Honda dealership in the near future to have them take care
> of
> : > > this problem.
> : > >
> : > > While testing my vehicle for the problem, I also tried to start it
> while
> : > > the gear shift lever was NOT in Park.
> : > >
> : > > It would not start in any gear. However, it DID start when the gear
> shift
> : > > lever was in neutral.
> : > >
> : > > Is this normal? If it's not normal--Is this related to the recall
> issue
> : > > mentioned above?
> : >
> : > All cars (with automatic transmissions) are supposed to start in Park
> and
> : > Neutral, but not in any other gears.
> :
> : Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> : person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> : position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> : was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> : it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> : they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> : makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> : start it unless the lever was in the Park position.
> :
> And I guess we can assume that those driving cars with manual transmissions
> have enough snap to set the parking brake... or maybe we shoudn't allow cars
> with manual transmissions, so as to forestall such problems.
>
> Or... we could hope for some common sense and personal responsibility.
>
> Just my opinion --
>
> Paul

Paul,
Great points. It's been years since I have owned a vehicle that had a
manual transmission. I do recall that when I was a teenager that my older
brother left the car in neutral (standard transmission). It was on fairly
level ground. About two hours later--the car started to roll forward and
it ran into a fence post and damaged the bumper--our daddy was VERY upset.
My brother lost his rights to drive the family car for at least a month.
I'll never forget it. I always set the parking brake--probably because of
that incident.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Brian Smith

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

Sure why not make someone else other than ourselves responsible for our
actions?

Brian Smith

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0104051255100001@pm4-broad-48.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> Thanks--I appreciate the information. However, it seems to me that if a
> person turned off the engine when the lever was in the Neutral
> position--and failed to activate the parking brake--that the car (if it
> was on a hill) may be involved in crash. Needless to say--I would never do
> it--but there are lots of people in the world that would do it--esp. if
> they were in a hurry or talking on a cell phone. Honda and other car
> makers should make their cars so that you could not turn off the engine or
> start it unless the lever was in the Park position.

Sure why not make someone else other than ourselves responsible for our
actions?