Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

93 Civic DX sedan. It was a collision hard enough that the drawer
beneath the radio opened and sent the coin change I keep there flying.
As I got out, I thought I would find the Civic's rear would be partly
flattened. I was amazed that externally, the bumper only showed
scratches. The exhaust system is intact. Is the integrity of the foam
etc. in the bumper compromised, though, after a hard rear-ending?

The police made their report. I spoke with my insurance company last
night. While only once before (on another car 20 years ago) of several
rear-endings have I pursued a claim, this collision was so hard that I
am concerned.

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle wrote:
> 93 Civic DX sedan. It was a collision hard enough that the drawer
> beneath the radio opened and sent the coin change I keep there flying.
> As I got out, I thought I would find the Civic's rear would be partly
> flattened. I was amazed that externally, the bumper only showed
> scratches. The exhaust system is intact. Is the integrity of the foam
> etc. in the bumper compromised, though, after a hard rear-ending?
>
> The police made their report. I spoke with my insurance company last
> night. While only once before (on another car 20 years ago) of several
> rear-endings have I pursued a claim, this collision was so hard that I
> am concerned.

if there's no deformation, there's nothing to worry about.

if there is damage, of much more concern is whether you get to keep your
own car - if you have full insurance coverage, chances are, the insurer
will take your car, junk it, and give you a trivial settlement as
"market value". only insure old cars third party if you like them and
want to keep them.

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

On Jul 7, 7:19 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Elle wrote:
> > 93 Civic DX sedan. It was a collision hard enough that the drawer
> > beneath the radio opened and sent the coin change I keep there flying.
> > As I got out, I thought I would find the Civic's rear would be partly
> > flattened. I was amazed that externally, the bumper only showed
> > scratches. The exhaust system is intact. Is the integrity of the foam
> > etc. in the bumper compromised, though, after a hard rear-ending?
>
> > The police made their report. I spoke with my insurance company last
> > night. While only once before (on another car 20 years ago) of several
> > rear-endings have I pursued a claim, this collision was so hard that I
> > am concerned.
>
> if there's no deformation, there's nothing to worry about.
>
> if there is damage, of much more concern is whether you get to keep your
> own car - if you have full insurance coverage, chances are, the insurer
> will take your car, junk it, and give you a trivial settlement as
> "market value". only insure old cars third party if you like them and
> want to keep them.

To clarify and/or double check: There is no deformation of the bumper
that appears on an external inspection. I asked the policeman about
the styrofoam inside, and he said the external plastic would often
bounce back, showing no deformation, but meanwhile the styrofoam
inside could be permanently deformed.

Is this not so from your understanding of bumper construction?

Thanks for giving this some time.

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in news:c67588a7-23f9-4179-9872-
8d748fb83c8f@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:

> 93 Civic DX sedan. It was a collision hard enough that the drawer
> beneath the radio opened and sent the coin change I keep there flying.



Hope you were OK. Did you see it coming?



> As I got out, I thought I would find the Civic's rear would be partly
> flattened. I was amazed that externally, the bumper only showed
> scratches. The exhaust system is intact. Is the integrity of the foam
> etc. in the bumper compromised, though, after a hard rear-ending?



The foam is usually cracked and compressed. If you push on the bumper skin
with your hand, you'll probably find that there is air space that wasn't
there before. You may have a slightly increased chance of parking-lot
damage to the skin (creasing, paint cracking) than you did before, but
otherwise it should be OK.

You can try reaching inside from underneath with your hand (don't know if
you'll actually be able to touch the foam) and see if the foam is loose.



>
> The police made their report. I spoke with my insurance company last
> night. While only once before (on another car 20 years ago) of several
> rear-endings have I pursued a claim, this collision was so hard that I
> am concerned.



Is there obvious displacement of the bumper skin relative to the trunk,
taillights and fenders? Does the trunk still shut exactly as it did before?

The trunk latch is right next to the bumper, so it's a pretty good proxy
for evidence of structural deformation.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in news:00476f13-f562-43bc-a945-
9cd4d707f02e@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:


>
> To clarify and/or double check: There is no deformation of the bumper
> that appears on an external inspection. I asked the policeman about
> the styrofoam inside, and he said the external plastic would often
> bounce back, showing no deformation, but meanwhile the styrofoam
> inside could be permanently deformed.
>
> Is this not so from your understanding of bumper construction?



The cop is correct. A junkyard crawl will confirm this.

The steel bumper rebar is bolted to the car. The foam is affixed to the
bumper skin which covers the rebar.

The foam is meant primarily to hold the bumper skin out to its finished
dimensions and shape. It also absorbs very minor "parking lot" type nudges.
Under heavier impacts, the foam tends to compress and break up into large
chunks. Those chunks often stay in place on account of the shape of the
skin, but they can become dislodged and even fall out.

Theoretically, the rebar comes into play above 2.5mph (5mph in Canada), and
theoretically protects the lights and other safety systems from damage
during those impacts. Although I've seen too many instances where the
bumper appears to have provided little more protection than a 1960s bumper,
while costing a lot more.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

On Jul 7, 8:08 am, Tegger wrote:
> Elle <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote
> > 93 Civic DX sedan. It was a collision hard enough that the drawer
> > beneath the radio opened and sent the coin change I keep there flying.
>
> Hope you were OK. Did you see it coming?

Yes thanks no injuries; just shook up. Mostly while waiting for the
police report I was just really unhappy that my beloved Honda may have
been blemished+ or more. I was and am really irritated with the person
who caused this and have half a mind to maximize her insurance
company's hit to compel her to think twice while she drives (with two
small kids in the car). But gosh I loathe insurance companies, so...

I was at a stoplight that had turned green yet the cars in front of me
were not moving. So I did not see it coming.

I will do all the checks you described soon. Thank you for the detail!

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle wrote:

> I was at a stoplight that had turned green yet the cars in front of me
> were not moving. So I did not see it coming.
>
> I will do all the checks you described soon. Thank you for the detail!
>

Glad you are all right.

When I got rear-ended, I was stopped a bit short behind another car
waiting to make a left turn. I watched in the rear view mirror as a
driver of a little econo-box stomped her brakes, making the rear end pop
up and swerve back and forth as it approaced my bumper. I had a split
second to turn my car left, but not into oncoming traffic, to avert the
oncoming blow. Luckily she turned out of my lane and a full-on smash to
just graze the rear right corner of my bumper cover. Deep scratches in
the plastic, but fixable. I should have made the insurance pay for a
whole new bumper, but instead, I just had her pay for paint. I just
repaired and repainted the whole bottom of the cover that needed
refreshing anyway. I didn't give much thought to the styrofoam underneath.

It is fairly easy to remove the rear bumper to see what's going on under
there.

dan

Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
snip but all read and found helpful
> It is fairly easy to remove the rear bumper to see what's going on under
> there.

I checked everything people listed here. The factory shop manual has a
single page for directions on how to get the bumper cover and
styrofoam absorber apart, and it is dead-on correct in what (easily
accessed) screws and bolts to remove. Everything looks good! I am
amazed that the styrofoam absorber is not cracked nor does it appear
deformed. At most, the bottom 3/8-inch of the styrofoam has small
indentations from where gravel from the road accumulated over the
years between the styrofoam and bumper cover. Then the gravel got
pushed into the styrofoam some, either from this rear-ending or lesser
ones over the years. The bumper beam looks fine.

I guess the styrofoam, the bumper beam, and the car moving some upon
collision took the force (in the vein of Tegger's post). Kudos to
Honda engineers or whoever sets standards for bumpers. A little more
touchup paint here and there; some Armor All, and I think my Civic
will be good to go.

Thanks again Jim, Tegger and Dan.

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Postscript: On reflecting on this accident and preventing it in the
future, and from reading Dan's post, I think one of the lessons here
is when there is a green light yet people ahead of one's car are not
moving, glance at the rear-view mirror throughout and see what people
in the back are doing. Maybe scoot the car up a little until people
start moving.

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle wrote:
> Postscript: On reflecting on this accident and preventing it in the
> future, and from reading Dan's post, I think one of the lessons here
> is when there is a green light yet people ahead of one's car are not
> moving, glance at the rear-view mirror throughout and see what people
> in the back are doing. Maybe scoot the car up a little until people
> start moving.

Yes moving forward when the vehicles in front of your vehicle haven't
moved would increase the odds of having your vehicle pushed into the
vehicle ahead of yours. Increasing the amount of damage to your vehicle
and involving other vehicles and people in the collision.

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle wrote:
> dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> snip but all read and found helpful
>> It is fairly easy to remove the rear bumper to see what's going on under
>> there.
>
> I checked everything people listed here. The factory shop manual has a
> single page for directions on how to get the bumper cover and
> styrofoam absorber apart, and it is dead-on correct in what (easily
> accessed) screws and bolts to remove. Everything looks good! I am
> amazed that the styrofoam absorber is not cracked nor does it appear
> deformed. At most, the bottom 3/8-inch of the styrofoam has small
> indentations from where gravel from the road accumulated over the
> years between the styrofoam and bumper cover. Then the gravel got
> pushed into the styrofoam some, either from this rear-ending or lesser
> ones over the years. The bumper beam looks fine.
>
> I guess the styrofoam, the bumper beam, and the car moving some upon
> collision took the force (in the vein of Tegger's post). Kudos to
> Honda engineers or whoever sets standards for bumpers. A little more
> touchup paint here and there; some Armor All, and I think my Civic
> will be good to go.
>
> Thanks again Jim, Tegger and Dan.


That design was why I chose a Civic Si over a VW Golf in '86. (The
VW salesman cheerfully explained the Golf's lack of a 5MPH bumper:
"That's what the collision insurance is for!") And it survived at least
one significant impact unscathed.

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Elle <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in news:e9dad137-9980-4a03-aeba-
5762cb9543e2@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:

> dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> snip but all read and found helpful
>> It is fairly easy to remove the rear bumper to see what's going on under
>> there.
>
> I checked everything people listed here. The factory shop manual has a
> single page for directions on how to get the bumper cover and
> styrofoam absorber apart, and it is dead-on correct in what (easily
> accessed) screws and bolts to remove. Everything looks good! I am
> amazed that the styrofoam absorber is not cracked nor does it appear
> deformed. At most, the bottom 3/8-inch of the styrofoam has small
> indentations from where gravel from the road accumulated over the
> years between the styrofoam and bumper cover. Then the gravel got
> pushed into the styrofoam some, either from this rear-ending or lesser
> ones over the years. The bumper beam looks fine.
>
> I guess the styrofoam, the bumper beam, and the car moving some upon
> collision took the force (in the vein of Tegger's post). Kudos to
> Honda engineers or whoever sets standards for bumpers. A little more
> touchup paint here and there; some Armor All, and I think my Civic
> will be good to go.
>
> Thanks again Jim, Tegger and Dan.



Happy endings are always nice.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:S5R4m.17226$Kn1.4567@newsfe09.iad:


>
>
> That design was why I chose a Civic Si over a VW Golf in '86. (The
> VW salesman cheerfully explained the Golf's lack of a 5MPH bumper:
> "That's what the collision insurance is for!") And it survived at
> least one significant impact unscathed.



Except that Elle's Civic has a 2.5mph bumper, whihc kind of undermines your
apparent point. Seems to have survived this incident just fine.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Tegger wrote:
> Elle <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in news:00476f13-f562-43bc-a945-
> 9cd4d707f02e@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>> To clarify and/or double check: There is no deformation of the bumper
>> that appears on an external inspection. I asked the policeman about
>> the styrofoam inside, and he said the external plastic would often
>> bounce back, showing no deformation, but meanwhile the styrofoam
>> inside could be permanently deformed.
>>
>> Is this not so from your understanding of bumper construction?
>
>
>
> The cop is correct. A junkyard crawl will confirm this.
>
> The steel bumper rebar is bolted to the car. The foam is affixed to the
> bumper skin which covers the rebar.
>
> The foam is meant primarily to hold the bumper skin out to its finished
> dimensions and shape. It also absorbs very minor "parking lot" type nudges.
> Under heavier impacts, the foam tends to compress and break up into large
> chunks. Those chunks often stay in place on account of the shape of the
> skin, but they can become dislodged and even fall out.
>
> Theoretically, the rebar comes into play above 2.5mph (5mph in Canada), and
> theoretically protects the lights and other safety systems from damage
> during those impacts. Although I've seen too many instances where the
> bumper appears to have provided little more protection than a 1960s bumper,
> while costing a lot more.
>
>

as tegger says, the styrofoam is of no consequence in any real accident,
it's simply to hold cosmetic shape. the steel or gfrp bar underneath,
and its mounting brackets, are what matter. if they're bent, the bumper
always shows misalignment. afaik, honda build to 5mph rather than dick
about with this keep-detroit-employed 2.5mph rubbish - doesn't take much
of a nudge to open a full change tray. chances are, you're just fine.

Re: Update & Happy Ending Re: Rear-Ended; New Bumper?
 

Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:S5R4m.17226$Kn1.4567@newsfe09.iad:
>
>
>>
>> That design was why I chose a Civic Si over a VW Golf in '86. (The
>> VW salesman cheerfully explained the Golf's lack of a 5MPH bumper:
>> "That's what the collision insurance is for!") And it survived at
>> least one significant impact unscathed.
>
>
>
> Except that Elle's Civic has a 2.5mph bumper, whihc kind of undermines your
> apparent point. Seems to have survived this incident just fine.
>
>

The design is nearly the same. The Golf had, near as I can tell, a
"0.5MPh bumper."