Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

General questions which is why I included five NG's.

I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).

The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).

Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.

And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....

I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.

http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Otis wrote:
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>
> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>
> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>
> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
> guess.
> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
> wanted
> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
> if they
> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
> think
> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
> *worse*
> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>
> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>
> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
> little
> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>
> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

It sounds like your rotors are warped.

How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/17/2009 07:32 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> Otis wrote:
>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>
>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>
>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>
>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>> guess.
>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>> wanted
>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>> if they
>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>> think
>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>> *worse*
>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>>
>> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>>
>> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
>> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
>> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
>> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
>> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
>> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
>> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
>> little
>> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
>> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
>> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
>> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
>> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>>
>> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg
>>
>
> It sounds like your rotors are warped.

it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
create symptoms /like/ warping.

solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
using a torque wrench.


>
> How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
> this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
> accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/17/2009 07:20 PM, Otis wrote:
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>
> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>
> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>
> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
> guess.
> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
> wanted
> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
> if they
> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
> think
> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
> *worse*
> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.

very common mistake. and one that allows the unscrupulous to soak you
for new brakes more often than not.

never allow any wheel monkey to re-bolt your wheels with air tools -
should always be done by hand using a torque wrench.


>
> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>
> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
> little
> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>
> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Otis wrote:
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.

All of these questions should be addressed to the dealership and
perhaps Honda's Zone Office if you aren't happy with the response you
receive from your dealer. First and foremost the car is under warranty
and you should have taken it in immediately after you discovered the
"shimmy" when leaving the lot.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

jim beam wrote:
> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
> using a torque wrench.
>

I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
I've owned had the standard warping rotors. OTOH, I've never had a car
that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs. Does this happen mostly
with steel wheels or alloy wheels?

Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Otis wrote:
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>
> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>
> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>
> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
> guess.
> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
> wanted
> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
> if they
> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
> think
> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
> *worse*
> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>
> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>
> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
> little
> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>
> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

A classic wheel/tire/brake problem. First, the rim has to be within
tolerances when bolted to the car it has to run true. This can be
checked on the car with a dial indicator. Then the tire has to within
tolerances and this is the hard one to check. Balancing the tire is
easy but if the tire has bad belts or some kind of defect it can do
really strange things and shimmy is one of them. The brakes should be
the easiest. With the rotor on the car it's checked for run out and
Honda once had a bulletin about truing the rotor while on the car.
I sounds like you have something out of round or out of balance and a
brake problem.
Hunter is probably the best for finding and fixing these things.
Once you get your brake shimmy problem solved taking it easy on stops
will keep the problem from reoccurring.
Here some reading for you,
http://www.hunter.com/PUB/undercar/index.htm
Tire Rack has a lot of good information
http://tires.tirerack.com/search?p=Q...=and&view=list
What I'd do if I were you would be to find a good suspension shop and
have it all checked out. What I'd do if it were me would be to get the
old dial indicator out and start checking things out. And a long hard
stop generates a lot of heat, a whole lot of heat on the rotors and is
the best way I know to warp them.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/18/2009 01:38 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>>
>> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
>> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
>> using a torque wrench.
>>
>
> I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
> I've owned had the standard warping rotors.

it's probably for the reasons i said. try the scrape, anti-seize and
torque wrench solution.


> OTOH, I've never had a car
> that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs.

the two are connected. seriously, it's very unusual for the brake disk
iron to actually warp.


> Does this happen mostly
> with steel wheels or alloy wheels?

it's more noticeable with steel..


>
> Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>
> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to create
> symptoms /like/ warping.

Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
can be a real issue.

There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
can occur.

Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
shudder.

A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a shop
with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
know how irritating it can be.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On Sep 18, 9:35 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> >> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>
> > it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> > extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to create
> > symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
> I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
> and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
> can be a real issue.
>
> There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
> dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
> or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
> can occur.
>
> Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
> shudder.
>
> A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
> shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
> good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a shop
> with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
> know how irritating it can be.

Well, the reason I took it back to the dealership is because all of
this work
should be warranty work. I guess I'll take it back over there next
week and
have them do their thing. BTW, I rotated the wheels myself and used a
torque wrench and tightened to specified torque. And I have driven
every
single mile since purchase.

So, as far as the hood/fender gaps; it appears most of you don't feel
it's
much of an issue. I'm kind of on the fence about it.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 9/18/09 8:51 AM, in article
b9380ec6-c2d5-4001-82a2-9932b09a84a1...oglegroups.com, "Otis"
<rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sep 18, 9:35 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>>
>>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to create
>>> symptoms /like/ warping.
>>
>> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
>> I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
>> and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
>> can be a real issue.
>>
>> There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
>> dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
>> or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
>> can occur.
>>
>> Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
>> shudder.
>>
>> A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
>> shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
>> good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a shop
>> with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
>> know how irritating it can be.
>
> Well, the reason I took it back to the dealership is because all of
> this work
> should be warranty work. I guess I'll take it back over there next
> week and
> have them do their thing. BTW, I rotated the wheels myself and used a
> torque wrench and tightened to specified torque. And I have driven
> every
> single mile since purchase.
>
> So, as far as the hood/fender gaps; it appears most of you don't feel
> it's
> much of an issue. I'm kind of on the fence about it.

Re your hood issue. The Hondas I have owned that were built in Japan
have/had absolutely perfect fit & finish; every gap aligned, every panel
perfectly flush with those surrounding it, etc. The one Honda I had that
was built in the US on the Accord line (a 2000 Acura TL) did not have
perfect fit & finish. There were minor but obvious misalignments around the
rear bumper and in a few other places. Check your serial number. If it
doesn't start with "J", you probably have your answer.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b9380ec6-c2d5-4001-82a2-9932b09a84a1@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 18, 9:35 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> >> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>
> > it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> > extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
> > create
> > symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
> I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
> and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
> can be a real issue.
>
> There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
> dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
> or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
> can occur.
>
> Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
> shudder.
>
> A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
> shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
> good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a
> shop
> with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
> know how irritating it can be.

Well, the reason I took it back to the dealership is because all of
this work
should be warranty work. I guess I'll take it back over there next
week and
have them do their thing. BTW, I rotated the wheels myself and used a
torque wrench and tightened to specified torque. And I have driven
every
single mile since purchase.

So, as far as the hood/fender gaps; it appears most of you don't feel
it's
much of an issue. I'm kind of on the fence about it.

********
You can do some checking on it, but if it is a new car, I think it is
somewhat
unlikely that it had been wrecked. Ask the dealership. You can also check
CarFacts (which I would do if it really bothers you) to see if they have any
records on it.

I have been very unhappy with a lot of dealerships. Their structure is
often
not one which encourages the best repairs for your car. You can keep
taking your car back to them because it is under warranty if you like, but
if you get a boogermonkey working on it, you may never be satisified.

IMO, you should talk with the service writer and perhaps even the mechanic,
and make sure you are being heard. Otherwise you are just a number.

In the last few years, I have seen a lot of wild ass guessing by shop
mechanics,
replacement of expensive parts to see if it will fix a problem, flat rating,
cutting corners, etc. No matter where you take it, be sure they are
competent
and conscientious.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On Sep 18, 10:54 am, "E. Meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/18/09 8:51 AM, in article
> b9380ec6-c2d5-4001-82a2-9932b09a8...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com, "Otis"
>
>
>
> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 18, 9:35 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> >> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> >>>> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>
> >>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> >>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to create
> >>> symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> >> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
> >> I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
> >> and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
> >> can be a real issue.
>
> >> There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
> >> dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
> >> or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
> >> can occur.
>
> >> Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
> >> shudder.
>
> >> A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
> >> shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
> >> good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a shop
> >> with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
> >> know how irritating it can be.
>
> > Well, the reason I took it back to the dealership is because all of
> > this work
> > should be warranty work. I guess I'll take it back over there next
> > week and
> > have them do their thing. BTW, I rotated the wheels myself and used a
> > torque wrench and tightened to specified torque. And I have driven
> > every
> > single mile since purchase.
>
> > So, as far as the hood/fender gaps; it appears most of you don't feel
> > it's
> > much of an issue. I'm kind of on the fence about it.
>
> Re your hood issue. The Hondas I have owned that were built in Japan
> have/had absolutely perfect fit & finish; every gap aligned, every panel
> perfectly flush with those surrounding it, etc. The one Honda I had that
> was built in the US on the Accord line (a 2000 Acura TL) did not have
> perfect fit & finish. There were minor but obvious misalignments around the
> rear bumper and in a few other places. Check your serial number. Ifit
> doesn't start with "J", you probably have your answer.

The car was built at a U.S. plant. I know that for sure. IIRC, the
vast
majority of Accords sold in U.S. are built there. As you said,
and as I told my wife last night, that probably explains it.:)
The transmission was built in Japan though. Yayyy!

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On Sep 18, 10:57 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "Otis" <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b9380ec6-c2d5-4001-82a2-9932b09a84a1@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 18, 9:35 am, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > >> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>
> > > it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
> > > extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
> > > create
> > > symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> > Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
> > I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
> > and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
> > can be a real issue.
>
> > There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
> > dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
> > or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
> > can occur.
>
> > Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
> > shudder.
>
> > A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
> > shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
> > good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a
> > shop
> > with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
> > know how irritating it can be.
>
> Well, the reason I took it back to the dealership is because all of
> this work
> should be warranty work. I guess I'll take it back over there next
> week and
> have them do their thing. BTW, I rotated the wheels myself and used a
> torque wrench and tightened to specified torque. And I have driven
> every
> single mile since purchase.
>
> So, as far as the hood/fender gaps; it appears most of you don't feel
> it's
> much of an issue. I'm kind of on the fence about it.
>
> ********
> You can do some checking on it, but if it is a new car, I think it is
> somewhat
> unlikely that it had been wrecked. Ask the dealership. You can alsocheck
> CarFacts (which I would do if it really bothers you) to see if they have any
> records on it.

Oh no, I have no suspicion whatever that the car was wrecked. It was
brand spanking new when I got it. I just thought it might be an
issue, cosmetically speaking. The only thing I can figure is that
maybe the driver-side fender was made a wee bit narrow or something.
Everything's flush and tight...just that wider gap. I guess it's not
big
deal.

>
> I have been very unhappy with a lot of dealerships. Their structure is
> often
> not one which encourages the best repairs for your car. You can keep
> taking your car back to them because it is under warranty if you like, but
> if you get a boogermonkey working on it, you may never be satisified.

Yep, I've always serviced my own cars and NEVER go to a dealership
service dept. unless it's warranty work.

>
> IMO, you should talk with the service writer and perhaps even the mechanic,
> and make sure you are being heard. Otherwise you are just a number.
>
> In the last few years, I have seen a lot of wild ass guessing by shop
> mechanics,
> replacement of expensive parts to see if it will fix a problem, flat rating,
> cutting corners, etc. No matter where you take it, be sure they are
> competent and conscientious.

Oh yeah, I know all about that. I hear ya.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:45:06 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 09/17/2009 07:20 PM, Otis wrote:
>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>
>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>
>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>
>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>> guess.
>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>> wanted
>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>> if they
>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>> think
>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>> *worse*
>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>
>very common mistake. and one that allows the unscrupulous to soak you
>for new brakes more often than not.
>
>never allow any wheel monkey to re-bolt your wheels with air tools -
>should always be done by hand using a torque wrench.
>
>
>

Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
with another poster that many shops over torque.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Observer wrote:

>
> Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
> don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
> with another poster that many shops over torque.

Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.

Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.


With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
before the other side gets torqued.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Observer <void@use.net> wrote:
>
>Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
>don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
>with another poster that many shops over torque.

Some use the sticks, some use torque wrenches, some don't use either one.
Most will use torque wrenches if you ask them politely. Tipping helps, too.
It takes a little more time to do it right.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
> Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
> a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
>
> Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.
>

I have had discs warped on more than one occasion by the TorxStik approach.
They are NOT failsafe.

If you want to be sure, ask them to torque the nuts on with a manual torque
wrench, and specify that they use the star pattern suggested by most
manufacturers. Then you are sure.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>
> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>
> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>
> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
> guess.
> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
> wanted
> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
> if they
> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
> think
> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
> *worse*
> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>
> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>
> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
> little
> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>
> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg

Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the out.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

jim beam wrote:
> On 09/18/2009 01:38 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>>>
>>> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
>>> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
>>> using a torque wrench.
>>>
>>
>> I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
>> I've owned had the standard warping rotors.
>
> it's probably for the reasons i said. try the scrape, anti-seize and
> torque wrench solution.
>
>
>> OTOH, I've never had a car
>> that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs.
>
> the two are connected. seriously, it's very unusual for the brake disk
> iron to actually warp.
>

That brake rotors don't warp is an interesting idea that I've not heard
before. What happens to me is that heavy braking, such as when slowing
down at the bottom of a hill, will tend to cause an oscillating feedback
at the steering wheel.

Hopefully, you're right and I've been seriously misinformed, after all,
it's cheaper to wire-brush wheel hubs than to machine them. Will try
this - thanks!

>
>> Does this happen mostly
>> with steel wheels or alloy wheels?
>
> it's more noticeable with steel..
>
>
>>
>> Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!
>

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

>
> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup. Get the out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Sharx35 wrote:
>
> "Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>
>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>
>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>
>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>> guess.
>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>> wanted
>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>> if they
>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>> think
>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>> *worse*
>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>>
>> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>>
>> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
>> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
>> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
>> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
>> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
>> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
>> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
>> little
>> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
>> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
>> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
>> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
>> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>>
>> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg
>>
>
> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup. Get the out.

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
>
>>
>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>
> Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
> authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:p8OdnUbeqeeYay7XnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@texas.net...
> Sharx35 wrote:
>>
>> "Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:46e0adf3-8842-4fee-8280-b338ff4c231d@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> General questions which is why I included five NG's.
>>>
>>> I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
>>>
>>> The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
>>> I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
>>> The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
>>> recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
>>> I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
>>> this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
>>> Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
>>> it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
>>> months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
>>> told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
>>>
>>> Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
>>> a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
>>> I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
>>> were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
>>> crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
>>> guess.
>>> I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
>>> wanted
>>> to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
>>> *turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
>>> if they
>>> got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
>>> talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
>>> think
>>> I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
>>> on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
>>> just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
>>> *worse*
>>> than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
>>>
>>> And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
>>>
>>> I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
>>> were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
>>> between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
>>> corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
>>> it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
>>> that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
>>> been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
>>> little
>>> on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
>>> left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
>>> opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
>>> but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
>>> I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
>>>
>>> http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=GEDC0178.jpg
>>
>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>
> One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
> That right there is FUNNY.
>

In these parts, Hondas are the favorite vehicles of Asian gang members.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

In article <KIRsm.45601$PH1.17099@edtnps82>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> newsgroup.

Ah. Toyota ricemobiles only.

Gotcha.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

In article <xXTsm.44417$Db2.1666@edtnps83>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
> >> newsgroup. Get the out.
> >
> > Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
> > authority?
>
> Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

....says the ricemobile driver Sharx.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

In article <ziCsm.180519$O23.92550@newsfe11.iad>,
dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
>this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
>accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...

New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops
for repair.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article <ziCsm.180519$O23.92550@newsfe11.iad>,
> dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>> How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
>> this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
>> accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...
>
> New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops
> for repair.
>

That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the
automobile industry.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/18/2009 11:23 AM, Steve wrote:
> Observer wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
>> don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
>> with another poster that many shops over torque.
>
> Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
> a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
>
> Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.
>
>
> With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
> have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
> line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
> wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
> do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
> you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
> with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
> slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
> over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
> doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
> before the other side gets torqued.

indeed - one of the reasons the heavier more powerful accord didn't
transition to that style of disk for years after the civic did.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/18/2009 01:23 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 09/18/2009 01:38 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>>>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>>>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>>>>
>>>> solution: clean the disk and wheel interface of rust. apply a little
>>>> antiseize. re-bolt the wheel with a two or more stage torque process,
>>>> using a torque wrench.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never owned a Honda so I defer to your expertise - all the cars
>>> I've owned had the standard warping rotors.
>>
>> it's probably for the reasons i said. try the scrape, anti-seize and
>> torque wrench solution.
>>
>>
>>> OTOH, I've never had a car
>>> that was sensitive to rust on the wheel hubs.
>>
>> the two are connected. seriously, it's very unusual for the brake disk
>> iron to actually warp.
>>
>
> That brake rotors don't warp is an interesting idea that I've not heard
> before. What happens to me is that heavy braking, such as when slowing
> down at the bottom of a hill, will tend to cause an oscillating feedback
> at the steering wheel.

classic symptoms. google the honda groups for past discussion and my
experience before and after wheel shop work.


>
> Hopefully, you're right and I've been seriously misinformed, after all,
> it's cheaper to wire-brush wheel hubs than to machine them. Will try
> this - thanks!

use a flat scraper. don't forget the inside of the wheels and the
antiseize. and don't use too much, just a little to color the surface
where the disk and wheel touch only.


>
>>
>>> Does this happen mostly
>>> with steel wheels or alloy wheels?
>>
>> it's more noticeable with steel..
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Those grease monkeys sure do like to over-torque those wheel nuts!
>>

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/18/2009 06:35 AM, hls wrote:
>
> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> It sounds like your rotors are warped.
>>
>> it's extremely rare for honda rotors to actually warp. it is however
>> extremely common for surface rust and incorrect torque procedure to
>> create symptoms /like/ warping.
>
> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.

but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red,
you'll have a real hard time warping them.


> I have seen it happen on Toyotas, Dodges, GM products, etc. Heat
> and improper torqueing seems to cause these problems, and the warp
> can be a real issue.

the symptoms are a real issue. it's caused by elastic distortion [as
opposed to permanent warping] of the hub interface and incorrect torque.
if the interface is sticky because of rust, the wheel doesn't seat
completely flat, and so when incorrect torque is applied, differential
stress on a modern lightweight hub causes it to be sprung slightly off
center. if you remove, clean and slightly lube the interface, it seats
square and "warped" disks are magically square again. which is of
course why you can remove a "warped" disk and put a micrometer on it to
find it perfectly flat.


>
> There are however other possibilities, including the buildup of rust or
> dirt which can cause the rotors or wheels to run out of plane. Roundness
> or eccentricity and planar trueness of wheels are other factors that
> can occur.

or crud patches on the disk, say from prior greasy fingerprints.

>
> Tires are yet a third. Even Michelins can occasionally give a little
> shudder.
>
> A really good shop can measure and correct these for the most part. A good
> shop does not necessarily mean a damn dealership. A dealership might be
> good, and an independent might be the pits, but take the time to find a
> shop
> with good equipment and conscientious mechanics to look into this, as I
> know how irritating it can be.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:08:59 -1000, dsi1
<dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:

>Timothy J. Lee wrote:
>> In article <ziCsm.180519$O23.92550@newsfe11.iad>,
>> dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>>> How could it be a wrecked Honda? You got it new. If you're worried about
>>> this, the body-fender guy should be able to tell if it's been in a
>>> accident pretty easily. Nice looking car though...
>>
>> New cars sometimes get damaged and sent to local auto body repair shops
>> for repair.
>>
>
>That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the
>automobile industry.


My Dad left one of his rear doors open on his car and backed out of
his garage. The door caught the side of the garage and got pulled out
past the normal open position. the door was damaged to the point of
needing to be reskinned. Instead of fixing it (estimate was $2800) he
traded it in on a new one. The dealer fixed it but of course since
it's done by their own shop and not thru insurance there is no record.
When we looked at the ad they ran that had the car in it they had the
carfax report which highlights "No accident history" . I'm sure the
same happens on new cars that get damaged in transit or on the lot.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

dsi1 wrote:
>
> That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the
> automobile industry.

It's hardly a secret.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

Brian Smith wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> That's a bummer! I guess that would be a dirty little secret of the
>> automobile industry.
>
> It's hardly a secret.

In what way is this not a secret? Do cars typically get into accidents
on the way to the dealer? How many new cars have to have body repairs
done? If everybody knew this, wouldn't all buyers be checking new cars
for collision damage and bodywork? Are they doing this?

If might not be a secret to you if you're in the new car sales business.
If it is true, I would guess that the new car dealers would want to keep
that knowledge away from the general public - that's my definition of
dirty-little secret.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

dsi1 wrote:
>
> In what way is this not a secret? Do cars typically get into accidents
> on the way to the dealer? How many new cars have to have body repairs
> done? If everybody knew this, wouldn't all buyers be checking new cars
> for collision damage and bodywork? Are they doing this?

As the vehicles are loaded and unloaded off the ships and rail cars
bumps and dings occur in the natural course of that movement. The number
would vary depending on the season, slippery conditions would obviously
lead to an increase in damage. Note that I am taking about minor
collisions that result in small amounts of damage to the vehicle(s),
although sometime fenders, doors and bumpers have to be replaced and
painted. That's why Autoports have their own body shops. Smart shoppers
realize that this is possible and check their potential new vehicle over
carefully before accepting delivery.

> If might not be a secret to you if you're in the new car sales business.
> If it is true, I would guess that the new car dealers would want to keep
> that knowledge away from the general public - that's my definition of
> dirty-little secret.

I don't work in the automotive industry, I am not a novice when it
comes to the car purchasing game. It doesn't take long to drive past a
car lot and see vehicles being bumped by the car lot jockeys. Again,
it's not a secret any more than the sun rises in the east is one. :^)

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
>
> but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red,
> you'll have a real hard time warping them.


I have seen it happen rather frequently.

I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have
had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated
when no severe overheating was evident.

The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of
the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the
use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors
that cause this.

When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe, then
you HAVE warp.

I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of
planar
rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same
sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs.

Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of
people
suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to
understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful
how he or she remediates those factors.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xXTsm.44417$Db2.1666@edtnps83...
>
> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>>
>> Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
>> authority?
>
> Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.
I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I
WILL
if I wish, psycho.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

On 09/19/2009 07:56 AM, hls wrote:
>
> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
>>
>> but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red,
>> you'll have a real hard time warping them.
>
>
> I have seen it happen rather frequently.

you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you
haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage.


>
> I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have
> had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated
> when no severe overheating was evident.

precisely my point!


>
> The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of
> the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the
> use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors
> that cause this.

latter, not the former.


>
> When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe,
> then
> you HAVE warp.

indeed, but it's rare. accurate measurement is rare too.


>
> I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of
> planar
> rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same
> sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs.

with single piston calipers, it's almost impossible to tell the
difference.


>
> Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of
> people
> suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to
> understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful
> how he or she remediates those factors.

indeed. that is why i'm taking the time to write about what causes and
fixes the problem. sure, you can replace the disks, a shop favorite,
and it works because the new disk surface is clean! but skimmed disks
rarely work because the disk is not cleaned.

bottom line - i have cured "warped" rotors on multiple cars multiple
times as i describe. most times i've taken a car to tire shop, i have
this problem as i drive home. i re-seat [as described] and re-torque
when i get home, problem disappears. that simply couldn't happen with a
genuinely warped disk.

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message

>> Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough.
>
> but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red,
> you'll have a real hard time warping them.
>
By the way, the following link to Babcock is good reading for the learning
amateur for essentially any disc braked car..

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Arti...heck_list.aspx

Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
 

"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:VP2dnUKDuNYDbCnXnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xXTsm.44417$Db2.1666@edtnps83...
>>
>> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
>> news:AbSdnfXKY7BVcS7XnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Who gives a about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a ING Toyota
>>>> newsgroup. Get the out.
>>>
>>> Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
>>> authority?
>>
>> Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.
> I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I
> WILL
> if I wish, psycho.


You'll derive much more satisfaction if you Block Sharx.

He seldom adds anything beyond poorly chosen and worn out profanity. He has
hit a couple of homeruns, I'll give him that. But the strikeouts out number
the good hits by a very wide margin. Nobody would remember Babe Ruth if the
only hit he got was the one where he pointed to the outfield fence on a full
count. That's pretty much Sharx's profile ...


Having said all of that, I can't help but wonder why none of the Honda
forums are included in your crosspost.