Re: Rust in coolant
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns9869C086AD27Ftegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote in news:45428014$0$12050
> $88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
>
> > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9869BED04540Ftegger@207.14.116.130...
> > ...
> >> The myth of permanent antifreeze was the source of many a
> >> corroded block in the old days.
> >>
> > I tend to think that it was indiscriminate use of tap water, but who
> > can tell? One thing I am sure of, is that aluminum cannot take the
> > sort of abuse that cast iron and brass can.
> >
>
>
> Ethylene glycol (and even the ancient propylene and alcohol mixes)
> turned corrosive in and of themselves far faster then than now, tap
> water or distilled.
>
I met a body shop owner in 1976 who had the original coolant in his 1952 GMC
wrecker. I have the original coolant in my eleven year old Jeep, which I
drive every day. One of these days I will get around to changing it. The
heater core is the first to go, if you wait too long. The Civic gets better
treatment, because the engine block is aluminum and the cooling system takes
less than a gallon to refill. I changed it after seven years. Funny thing,
the original coolant was green, and the new stuff is blue.

If I believed what people in newsgroups tell me, I would be changing the oil
at 3,000 miles without fail and the coolant every two years. There are more
fun things to do.

Earle



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Rust in coolant
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns9869C086AD27Ftegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote in news:45428014$0$12050
> $88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
>
> > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9869BED04540Ftegger@207.14.116.130...
> > ...
> >> The myth of permanent antifreeze was the source of many a
> >> corroded block in the old days.
> >>
> > I tend to think that it was indiscriminate use of tap water, but who
> > can tell? One thing I am sure of, is that aluminum cannot take the
> > sort of abuse that cast iron and brass can.
> >
>
>
> Ethylene glycol (and even the ancient propylene and alcohol mixes)
> turned corrosive in and of themselves far faster then than now, tap
> water or distilled.
>
I met a body shop owner in 1976 who had the original coolant in his 1952 GMC
wrecker. I have the original coolant in my eleven year old Jeep, which I
drive every day. One of these days I will get around to changing it. The
heater core is the first to go, if you wait too long. The Civic gets better
treatment, because the engine block is aluminum and the cooling system takes
less than a gallon to refill. I changed it after seven years. Funny thing,
the original coolant was green, and the new stuff is blue.

If I believed what people in newsgroups tell me, I would be changing the oil
at 3,000 miles without fail and the coolant every two years. There are more
fun things to do.

Earle



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Rust in coolant
 

TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.

I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
none of them were magnetic.

I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
flush" product, instead of plain water?

Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
thoroughly and post back..

Re: Rust in coolant
 

TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.

I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
none of them were magnetic.

I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
flush" product, instead of plain water?

Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
thoroughly and post back..

Re: Rust in coolant
 

TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.

I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
none of them were magnetic.

I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
flush" product, instead of plain water?

Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
thoroughly and post back..

Re: Rust in coolant
 

TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.

I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
none of them were magnetic.

I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
flush" product, instead of plain water?

Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
thoroughly and post back..

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote:
> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
> looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
> which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.
>
> I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
> none of them were magnetic.

use the magnet on the powder to see if the particles are magnetic. if
they are, it's definitely rust and you need to consider what could be
the cause. if it's a static source like a freeze plug, it's unusual to
have particles float about the system. the only non-static thing i can
think of is the coolant pump impeller or the pump bearing, in which case
you need to deal with it asap before it jams and breaks your timing belt.

>
> I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
> refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
> that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
> flush" product, instead of plain water?

possibly, but generally they're caustic soda - not good news for
aluminum blocks. if you use one, make sure it's the type that comes
with a follow-up neutralizer, and follow instructions.

>
> Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
> reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
> problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
> thoroughly and post back..
>

a bad pump bearing could be leaking coolant as well as introducing rust.
suggest further investigation asap.

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote:
> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
> looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
> which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.
>
> I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
> none of them were magnetic.

use the magnet on the powder to see if the particles are magnetic. if
they are, it's definitely rust and you need to consider what could be
the cause. if it's a static source like a freeze plug, it's unusual to
have particles float about the system. the only non-static thing i can
think of is the coolant pump impeller or the pump bearing, in which case
you need to deal with it asap before it jams and breaks your timing belt.

>
> I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
> refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
> that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
> flush" product, instead of plain water?

possibly, but generally they're caustic soda - not good news for
aluminum blocks. if you use one, make sure it's the type that comes
with a follow-up neutralizer, and follow instructions.

>
> Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
> reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
> problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
> thoroughly and post back..
>

a bad pump bearing could be leaking coolant as well as introducing rust.
suggest further investigation asap.

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote:
> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
> looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
> which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.
>
> I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
> none of them were magnetic.

use the magnet on the powder to see if the particles are magnetic. if
they are, it's definitely rust and you need to consider what could be
the cause. if it's a static source like a freeze plug, it's unusual to
have particles float about the system. the only non-static thing i can
think of is the coolant pump impeller or the pump bearing, in which case
you need to deal with it asap before it jams and breaks your timing belt.

>
> I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
> refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
> that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
> flush" product, instead of plain water?

possibly, but generally they're caustic soda - not good news for
aluminum blocks. if you use one, make sure it's the type that comes
with a follow-up neutralizer, and follow instructions.

>
> Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
> reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
> problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
> thoroughly and post back..
>

a bad pump bearing could be leaking coolant as well as introducing rust.
suggest further investigation asap.

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote:
> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample" and
> looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish powder,
> which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply coolant.
>
> I also tested the radiator, block etc with a magnet, and you're right,
> none of them were magnetic.

use the magnet on the powder to see if the particles are magnetic. if
they are, it's definitely rust and you need to consider what could be
the cause. if it's a static source like a freeze plug, it's unusual to
have particles float about the system. the only non-static thing i can
think of is the coolant pump impeller or the pump bearing, in which case
you need to deal with it asap before it jams and breaks your timing belt.

>
> I flushed the coolant four times, as thoroughly as I can, but when I
> refilled for the fifth time, there was *still* some "rusty" powder
> that's visible in the radiator. For flushing, should I use a "coolant
> flush" product, instead of plain water?

possibly, but generally they're caustic soda - not good news for
aluminum blocks. if you use one, make sure it's the type that comes
with a follow-up neutralizer, and follow instructions.

>
> Also, the coolant seems to be leaking out somehow; I have to refill the
> reservoir every 50 miles or so, which didn't happen before this "rust"
> problem. But there's no leak as far as I can see. Will check more
> thoroughly and post back..
>

a bad pump bearing could be leaking coolant as well as introducing rust.
suggest further investigation asap.

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote in
news:1162318655.891370.158640@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com:

> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample"
> and looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish
> powder, which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply
> coolant.



In addition to what jim beam says, there is also the possibility it's
old silica. Silica from cheap silicated coolant can precipitate out,
especially if it's very old, or has been used at a too-high
concentration.

This would explain your inability to flush it out. It's probably sifted
down to the bottom of the water jacket and has piled up there, as well
asd in the bottom of the rad.

The best way to flush the block is to remove the block drain and close
the rad drain. Now stick a garden hose in the rad filler neck, and feed
a high volume of water through it until the water runs clear out the
block drain. You can do the same thing with the rad, but you'll need to
disconnect the lower rad hose so the water can exit quickly.

There is an additional, more ominous possibility: it's old Bars Leak. A
previous owner may have had a leak somewhere, and filled the system up
with Bars Leak in the hopes of stopping it up long enough to unload the
car onto somebody else. Used cars are a minefield.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote in
news:1162318655.891370.158640@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com:

> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample"
> and looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish
> powder, which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply
> coolant.



In addition to what jim beam says, there is also the possibility it's
old silica. Silica from cheap silicated coolant can precipitate out,
especially if it's very old, or has been used at a too-high
concentration.

This would explain your inability to flush it out. It's probably sifted
down to the bottom of the water jacket and has piled up there, as well
asd in the bottom of the rad.

The best way to flush the block is to remove the block drain and close
the rad drain. Now stick a garden hose in the rad filler neck, and feed
a high volume of water through it until the water runs clear out the
block drain. You can do the same thing with the rad, but you'll need to
disconnect the lower rad hose so the water can exit quickly.

There is an additional, more ominous possibility: it's old Bars Leak. A
previous owner may have had a leak somewhere, and filled the system up
with Bars Leak in the hopes of stopping it up long enough to unload the
car onto somebody else. Used cars are a minefield.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote in
news:1162318655.891370.158640@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com:

> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample"
> and looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish
> powder, which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply
> coolant.



In addition to what jim beam says, there is also the possibility it's
old silica. Silica from cheap silicated coolant can precipitate out,
especially if it's very old, or has been used at a too-high
concentration.

This would explain your inability to flush it out. It's probably sifted
down to the bottom of the water jacket and has piled up there, as well
asd in the bottom of the rad.

The best way to flush the block is to remove the block drain and close
the rad drain. Now stick a garden hose in the rad filler neck, and feed
a high volume of water through it until the water runs clear out the
block drain. You can do the same thing with the rad, but you'll need to
disconnect the lower rad hose so the water can exit quickly.

There is an additional, more ominous possibility: it's old Bars Leak. A
previous owner may have had a leak somewhere, and filled the system up
with Bars Leak in the hopes of stopping it up long enough to unload the
car onto somebody else. Used cars are a minefield.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rust in coolant
 

bug67ph@gmail.com wrote in
news:1162318655.891370.158640@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com:

> TeG, I'd like to think it's discolored coolant too, but would
> discolored coolant leave a deposit when it dries? I took a "sample"
> and looked at it carefully. There seems to be an orange-brownish
> powder, which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's not simply
> coolant.



In addition to what jim beam says, there is also the possibility it's
old silica. Silica from cheap silicated coolant can precipitate out,
especially if it's very old, or has been used at a too-high
concentration.

This would explain your inability to flush it out. It's probably sifted
down to the bottom of the water jacket and has piled up there, as well
asd in the bottom of the rad.

The best way to flush the block is to remove the block drain and close
the rad drain. Now stick a garden hose in the rad filler neck, and feed
a high volume of water through it until the water runs clear out the
block drain. You can do the same thing with the rad, but you'll need to
disconnect the lower rad hose so the water can exit quickly.

There is an additional, more ominous possibility: it's old Bars Leak. A
previous owner may have had a leak somewhere, and filled the system up
with Bars Leak in the hopes of stopping it up long enough to unload the
car onto somebody else. Used cars are a minefield.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Rust in coolant
 

Well, I tried using the magnet on the particles (very good idea BTW),
and the good news is: It's not rust. So it's probably old coolant
(silicates?), and it's coating the inside of the rad, the hoses etc.

I tried TeG's "flush" procedure, and finally the next refill was all
clear. But I know that there's still a lot of the stuff on the inside
surfaces; any way I can clean that up?

Thanks!