Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171130586.470717.306380@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird
> shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and-
> forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't
> the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed?
>

I got my new work truck about a year ago. The previous Ford was from the
early '90s and had a 5 speed while the new Ford is an '05 with a turbo
diesel and a six speed. In the 5 speed reverse was in the back right corner
while in the 6 speed it is in the front left corner. I really learned to
hate that 5 speed shift pattern because of reverse. It reminded me of the
joke about the guy who was racing somebody away from the stop light... he
started out in "(D)rag" and ended up shifting into "(R)ace."

Mike

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171130586.470717.306380@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird
> shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and-
> forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't
> the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed?
>

I got my new work truck about a year ago. The previous Ford was from the
early '90s and had a 5 speed while the new Ford is an '05 with a turbo
diesel and a six speed. In the 5 speed reverse was in the back right corner
while in the 6 speed it is in the front left corner. I really learned to
hate that 5 speed shift pattern because of reverse. It reminded me of the
joke about the guy who was racing somebody away from the stop light... he
started out in "(D)rag" and ended up shifting into "(R)ace."

Mike

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171130586.470717.306380@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird
> shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and-
> forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't
> the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed?
>

I got my new work truck about a year ago. The previous Ford was from the
early '90s and had a 5 speed while the new Ford is an '05 with a turbo
diesel and a six speed. In the 5 speed reverse was in the back right corner
while in the 6 speed it is in the front left corner. I really learned to
hate that 5 speed shift pattern because of reverse. It reminded me of the
joke about the guy who was racing somebody away from the stop light... he
started out in "(D)rag" and ended up shifting into "(R)ace."

Mike

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171130586.470717.306380@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird
> shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and-
> forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't
> the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed?
>

I got my new work truck about a year ago. The previous Ford was from the
early '90s and had a 5 speed while the new Ford is an '05 with a turbo
diesel and a six speed. In the 5 speed reverse was in the back right corner
while in the 6 speed it is in the front left corner. I really learned to
hate that 5 speed shift pattern because of reverse. It reminded me of the
joke about the guy who was racing somebody away from the stop light... he
started out in "(D)rag" and ended up shifting into "(R)ace."

Mike

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yJ6dnQSDmOcVkFPYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
>> news:qOmdnX5vM4jfflDYnZ2dnUVZ_t2tnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International,
>>>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like:
>>>> 25R
>>>> 341
>>>> If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that
>>>> pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> i think it was
>>> 24r
>>> 351
>>> reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving,
>>> only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My pattern is correct. I'm looking at a photo of that dash plate now.
>> 25R
>> 341
>>
>>
>>
> fair enough. 1 is still offset because it's a crawler though. it's a
> "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one
> of the ones with no synchro!

Ah! Like the old White 6x military vehicle one used to find in Civil
Defense in the early 60s. Of course, I had a 64 XKE which I am convinced
had an almost non-existent synchro -- those old Moss 4 speeds with the long
throw from 1st to 2nd.

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yJ6dnQSDmOcVkFPYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
>> news:qOmdnX5vM4jfflDYnZ2dnUVZ_t2tnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International,
>>>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like:
>>>> 25R
>>>> 341
>>>> If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that
>>>> pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> i think it was
>>> 24r
>>> 351
>>> reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving,
>>> only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My pattern is correct. I'm looking at a photo of that dash plate now.
>> 25R
>> 341
>>
>>
>>
> fair enough. 1 is still offset because it's a crawler though. it's a
> "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one
> of the ones with no synchro!

Ah! Like the old White 6x military vehicle one used to find in Civil
Defense in the early 60s. Of course, I had a 64 XKE which I am convinced
had an almost non-existent synchro -- those old Moss 4 speeds with the long
throw from 1st to 2nd.

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yJ6dnQSDmOcVkFPYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
>> news:qOmdnX5vM4jfflDYnZ2dnUVZ_t2tnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International,
>>>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like:
>>>> 25R
>>>> 341
>>>> If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that
>>>> pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> i think it was
>>> 24r
>>> 351
>>> reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving,
>>> only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My pattern is correct. I'm looking at a photo of that dash plate now.
>> 25R
>> 341
>>
>>
>>
> fair enough. 1 is still offset because it's a crawler though. it's a
> "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one
> of the ones with no synchro!

Ah! Like the old White 6x military vehicle one used to find in Civil
Defense in the early 60s. Of course, I had a 64 XKE which I am convinced
had an almost non-existent synchro -- those old Moss 4 speeds with the long
throw from 1st to 2nd.

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yJ6dnQSDmOcVkFPYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
>> news:qOmdnX5vM4jfflDYnZ2dnUVZ_t2tnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International,
>>>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like:
>>>> 25R
>>>> 341
>>>> If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that
>>>> pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> i think it was
>>> 24r
>>> 351
>>> reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving,
>>> only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My pattern is correct. I'm looking at a photo of that dash plate now.
>> 25R
>> 341
>>
>>
>>
> fair enough. 1 is still offset because it's a crawler though. it's a
> "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one
> of the ones with no synchro!

Ah! Like the old White 6x military vehicle one used to find in Civil
Defense in the early 60s. Of course, I had a 64 XKE which I am convinced
had an almost non-existent synchro -- those old Moss 4 speeds with the long
throw from 1st to 2nd.

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:osGdnZLuc6HlXFDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@sedona.net:

> "gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171088687.172699.194190@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> A coworker had a weird accident where he was driving his oldish
>> Toyota Sienna and tried to apply some engine brake with his automatic
>> transmission.
>>
>> He was able to push the shaft up into Reverse; neddless to say, he
>> lost control and the car swerved hard and rolled over a few times.
>> The van was totalled, of course, but fortunately the driver walked
>> away, shakingly.
>>
>> Now, the question is: is it possible to push the stick from the fifth
>> into reverse on my 2000 Civic manual tranny while having forward
>> movement? Or is there some mechanical stop that prevents me from
>> doing such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this,
>> just for my general knowledge regarding transmission design.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serban
>>
>
> Yep - it's possible (not at all easy) with any manual transmission.
> However, as anybody who has accidentally hit the reverse slot while
> trying to downshift will attest, it is accompanied by a horrible
> grinding of gears and lots of resistance. What the driver is trying to
> do is to get the gears in the transmission to stop spinning forward at
> high speed and start spinning backward. The tranny won't actually go
> into reverse until the gears mesh, and that isn't going to happen
> without a fight. Reverse gear is not "synchro'd" - provided with a
> synchronizer to quietly coerce the gear speeds to match - in any
> modern transmission I know of, so it would take some real
> determination to get it into reverse. Why anybody would do that and
> then let out the clutch so it would make a difference is anybody's
> guess.
>
> Short answer - it would warn you mightily with harsh noises if you
> try.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

I did it once ion my 198x chevvette. It wasnt from a high speed, I was
probably doing 25-30 mph. It did go into reverse with much dificulty. I
doubt it would have went into gear at highway speeds tho. YMMV...




--
1984 RZ350

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:osGdnZLuc6HlXFDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@sedona.net:

> "gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171088687.172699.194190@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> A coworker had a weird accident where he was driving his oldish
>> Toyota Sienna and tried to apply some engine brake with his automatic
>> transmission.
>>
>> He was able to push the shaft up into Reverse; neddless to say, he
>> lost control and the car swerved hard and rolled over a few times.
>> The van was totalled, of course, but fortunately the driver walked
>> away, shakingly.
>>
>> Now, the question is: is it possible to push the stick from the fifth
>> into reverse on my 2000 Civic manual tranny while having forward
>> movement? Or is there some mechanical stop that prevents me from
>> doing such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this,
>> just for my general knowledge regarding transmission design.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serban
>>
>
> Yep - it's possible (not at all easy) with any manual transmission.
> However, as anybody who has accidentally hit the reverse slot while
> trying to downshift will attest, it is accompanied by a horrible
> grinding of gears and lots of resistance. What the driver is trying to
> do is to get the gears in the transmission to stop spinning forward at
> high speed and start spinning backward. The tranny won't actually go
> into reverse until the gears mesh, and that isn't going to happen
> without a fight. Reverse gear is not "synchro'd" - provided with a
> synchronizer to quietly coerce the gear speeds to match - in any
> modern transmission I know of, so it would take some real
> determination to get it into reverse. Why anybody would do that and
> then let out the clutch so it would make a difference is anybody's
> guess.
>
> Short answer - it would warn you mightily with harsh noises if you
> try.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

I did it once ion my 198x chevvette. It wasnt from a high speed, I was
probably doing 25-30 mph. It did go into reverse with much dificulty. I
doubt it would have went into gear at highway speeds tho. YMMV...




--
1984 RZ350

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:osGdnZLuc6HlXFDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@sedona.net:

> "gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171088687.172699.194190@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> A coworker had a weird accident where he was driving his oldish
>> Toyota Sienna and tried to apply some engine brake with his automatic
>> transmission.
>>
>> He was able to push the shaft up into Reverse; neddless to say, he
>> lost control and the car swerved hard and rolled over a few times.
>> The van was totalled, of course, but fortunately the driver walked
>> away, shakingly.
>>
>> Now, the question is: is it possible to push the stick from the fifth
>> into reverse on my 2000 Civic manual tranny while having forward
>> movement? Or is there some mechanical stop that prevents me from
>> doing such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this,
>> just for my general knowledge regarding transmission design.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serban
>>
>
> Yep - it's possible (not at all easy) with any manual transmission.
> However, as anybody who has accidentally hit the reverse slot while
> trying to downshift will attest, it is accompanied by a horrible
> grinding of gears and lots of resistance. What the driver is trying to
> do is to get the gears in the transmission to stop spinning forward at
> high speed and start spinning backward. The tranny won't actually go
> into reverse until the gears mesh, and that isn't going to happen
> without a fight. Reverse gear is not "synchro'd" - provided with a
> synchronizer to quietly coerce the gear speeds to match - in any
> modern transmission I know of, so it would take some real
> determination to get it into reverse. Why anybody would do that and
> then let out the clutch so it would make a difference is anybody's
> guess.
>
> Short answer - it would warn you mightily with harsh noises if you
> try.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

I did it once ion my 198x chevvette. It wasnt from a high speed, I was
probably doing 25-30 mph. It did go into reverse with much dificulty. I
doubt it would have went into gear at highway speeds tho. YMMV...




--
1984 RZ350

Re: Silly question regarding manual tranny
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:osGdnZLuc6HlXFDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@sedona.net:

> "gigelus2k3" <popescu.serban@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171088687.172699.194190@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> A coworker had a weird accident where he was driving his oldish
>> Toyota Sienna and tried to apply some engine brake with his automatic
>> transmission.
>>
>> He was able to push the shaft up into Reverse; neddless to say, he
>> lost control and the car swerved hard and rolled over a few times.
>> The van was totalled, of course, but fortunately the driver walked
>> away, shakingly.
>>
>> Now, the question is: is it possible to push the stick from the fifth
>> into reverse on my 2000 Civic manual tranny while having forward
>> movement? Or is there some mechanical stop that prevents me from
>> doing such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this,
>> just for my general knowledge regarding transmission design.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serban
>>
>
> Yep - it's possible (not at all easy) with any manual transmission.
> However, as anybody who has accidentally hit the reverse slot while
> trying to downshift will attest, it is accompanied by a horrible
> grinding of gears and lots of resistance. What the driver is trying to
> do is to get the gears in the transmission to stop spinning forward at
> high speed and start spinning backward. The tranny won't actually go
> into reverse until the gears mesh, and that isn't going to happen
> without a fight. Reverse gear is not "synchro'd" - provided with a
> synchronizer to quietly coerce the gear speeds to match - in any
> modern transmission I know of, so it would take some real
> determination to get it into reverse. Why anybody would do that and
> then let out the clutch so it would make a difference is anybody's
> guess.
>
> Short answer - it would warn you mightily with harsh noises if you
> try.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

I did it once ion my 198x chevvette. It wasnt from a high speed, I was
probably doing 25-30 mph. It did go into reverse with much dificulty. I
doubt it would have went into gear at highway speeds tho. YMMV...




--
1984 RZ350