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Stolen Honda
My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither
the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is this possible? |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > Someone gave them a key? |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > Someone gave them a key? |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... > > <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >> this possible? >> > Someone gave them a key? > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... > > <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >> this possible? >> > Someone gave them a key? > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > Did you buy it used? A previous owner or one of their acquaintances may have kept a key. |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > Did you buy it used? A previous owner or one of their acquaintances may have kept a key. |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > The Arizona Republic ran a story several years ago about Hondas being stolen by young theives who used Honda keys that were worn down by scraping them on cement curbs. There wasn't a lot of attribution in the story, so I can't say whether it was accurate, but there is a possibility that Hondas of that era had less than secure tumblers. I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by Lotus in those days. Mike |
Re: Stolen Honda
<GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > The Arizona Republic ran a story several years ago about Hondas being stolen by young theives who used Honda keys that were worn down by scraping them on cement curbs. There wasn't a lot of attribution in the story, so I can't say whether it was accurate, but there is a possibility that Hondas of that era had less than secure tumblers. I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by Lotus in those days. Mike |
Re: Stolen Honda
"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z5idnUUT9YqrNpjfRVn-gg@comcast.com... > > "Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... >> >> <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >>> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>> this possible? >>> >> Someone gave them a key? >> > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. > In that case, the vehicle would probably not have been recovered. Doing that is a lot of work and risk, and requires the vehicle be someplace regularly or for at least a few hours so the VIN can be copied, the key acquired, and the car taken. Anybody who goes to that effort (and risk of investigation) isn't out for a joy ride. Among the possibilities, a more likely one is that somebody had a Honda key and wandered around trying doors until one opened. So much depends on where it was stolen from - if it was from in front of a home the car was more likely to have been targeted, while if it was in a large parking lot the wanderer with a key is the way to bet. In addition, if the exterior was stripped (we aren't told) and the interior left intact, a tow truck rises to the top of the suspicion list. Mike |
Re: Stolen Honda
"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z5idnUUT9YqrNpjfRVn-gg@comcast.com... > > "Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... >> >> <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >>> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>> this possible? >>> >> Someone gave them a key? >> > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. > In that case, the vehicle would probably not have been recovered. Doing that is a lot of work and risk, and requires the vehicle be someplace regularly or for at least a few hours so the VIN can be copied, the key acquired, and the car taken. Anybody who goes to that effort (and risk of investigation) isn't out for a joy ride. Among the possibilities, a more likely one is that somebody had a Honda key and wandered around trying doors until one opened. So much depends on where it was stolen from - if it was from in front of a home the car was more likely to have been targeted, while if it was in a large parking lot the wanderer with a key is the way to bet. In addition, if the exterior was stripped (we aren't told) and the interior left intact, a tow truck rises to the top of the suspicion list. Mike |
Re: Stolen Honda
Michael Pardee wrote: ><GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googleg roups.com... > > >>My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>this possible? >> >> >> >The Arizona Republic ran a story several years ago about Hondas being stolen >by young theives who used Honda keys that were worn down by scraping them on >cement curbs. There wasn't a lot of attribution in the story, so I can't say >whether it was accurate, but there is a possibility that Hondas of that era >had less than secure tumblers. > >I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the >street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our >keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by >Lotus in those days. > >Mike > There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... |
Re: Stolen Honda
Michael Pardee wrote: ><GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googleg roups.com... > > >>My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>this possible? >> >> >> >The Arizona Republic ran a story several years ago about Hondas being stolen >by young theives who used Honda keys that were worn down by scraping them on >cement curbs. There wasn't a lot of attribution in the story, so I can't say >whether it was accurate, but there is a possibility that Hondas of that era >had less than secure tumblers. > >I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the >street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our >keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by >Lotus in those days. > >Mike > There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... |
Re: Stolen Honda
GillPickle@gmail.com wrote:
> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > how is this possible? 1. go to a large supermarket & tell the management that you've locked yourself out of your car. they'll send the guy out with the tools & they'll have it open in seconds. 2. call aaa & tell them you've locked yourself out... they'll send a locksmith. he'll cut you a new key in about 5 minutes using nothing but a blank, a file & a magnifying glass. 3. if your car's 13 years old, the tumblers have worn the key barrel substantially. many keys will now fit. |
Re: Stolen Honda
GillPickle@gmail.com wrote:
> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > how is this possible? 1. go to a large supermarket & tell the management that you've locked yourself out of your car. they'll send the guy out with the tools & they'll have it open in seconds. 2. call aaa & tell them you've locked yourself out... they'll send a locksmith. he'll cut you a new key in about 5 minutes using nothing but a blank, a file & a magnifying glass. 3. if your car's 13 years old, the tumblers have worn the key barrel substantially. many keys will now fit. |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:_9ydnT6EI4YUtpvfRVn-3g@sedona.net... > > I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the > street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our > keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by > Lotus in those days. Similar to Caterpillar equipment today. One key fits all! Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:_9ydnT6EI4YUtpvfRVn-3g@sedona.net... > > I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the > street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our > keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by > Lotus in those days. Similar to Caterpillar equipment today. One key fits all! Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:42063195.8020106@RWMann.com... > > There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... In the seventies there were four Lotus Europa cars in town here. Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:42063195.8020106@RWMann.com... > > There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... In the seventies there were four Lotus Europa cars in town here. Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
Brian Smith wrote: "RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:42063195.8020106@RWMann.com... There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... In the seventies there were four Lotus Europa cars in town here. Brian Sounds like a whole container-load went missing near NS! ;-) In a year, Lotus East sold maybe that many all over the US east coast.... |
Re: Stolen Honda
Brian Smith wrote: "RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:42063195.8020106@RWMann.com... There were only a few Loti, let alone Europas, ever... In the seventies there were four Lotus Europa cars in town here. Brian Sounds like a whole container-load went missing near NS! ;-) In a year, Lotus East sold maybe that many all over the US east coast.... |
Re: Stolen Honda
"RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:420639DF.5050603@RWMann.com... > > Sounds like a whole container-load went missing near NS! ;-) LOL! > In a year, Lotus East sold maybe that many all over the US east coast.... Not our fault if no one wanted them down there {:^) Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"RWM" <RWM@RWMann.com> wrote in message news:420639DF.5050603@RWMann.com... > > Sounds like a whole container-load went missing near NS! ;-) LOL! > In a year, Lotus East sold maybe that many all over the US east coast.... Not our fault if no one wanted them down there {:^) Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in
news:z5idnUUT9YqrNpjfRVn-gg@comcast.com: > > "Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... >> >> <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >>> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>> this possible? >>> >> Someone gave them a key? >> > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. > > Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a dealer to make keys from a VIN? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Stolen Honda
"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in
news:z5idnUUT9YqrNpjfRVn-gg@comcast.com: > > "Doug McCrary" <dougmccrary@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:UphNd.18033$uc.14925@trnddc03... >> >> <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >>> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >>> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >>> this possible? >>> >> Someone gave them a key? >> > More likely, the dealer made them a key from the VIN. > > Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a dealer to make keys from a VIN? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns95F5820D9F7C3jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. . > > Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a dealer > to > make keys from a VIN? Around here, a locksmith will ask to see the padlock that you want the key cut for (if you have the key code only). Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns95F5820D9F7C3jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. . > > Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a dealer > to > make keys from a VIN? Around here, a locksmith will ask to see the padlock that you want the key cut for (if you have the key code only). Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 07:36:49 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the >street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our >keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by >Lotus in those days. A true story. Once, many years ago, I parked my silver Dodge Colt Vista Wagon in a grocery store parking lot, went inside, and bought something (probably beer). I came out, got in a silver Dodge Colt Vista Wagon, unlocked the door, put my key in the ignition, started it, and drove off. Then I noticed a package of cigarettes on the dash (I don't smoke) and some other odd things. The car was not mine! I circled the parking lot and returned the car to the same spot, got out, got my stuff, found my car, and went on my way. Elliot Richmond Freelance Science Writer and Editor |
Re: Stolen Honda
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 07:36:49 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: >I used to own a Lotus Europa, and I once met another Lotus owner on the >street. He asked me to compare keys with him and I was amazed to find our >keys were cut identically! Apparently there were only a few keys used by >Lotus in those days. A true story. Once, many years ago, I parked my silver Dodge Colt Vista Wagon in a grocery store parking lot, went inside, and bought something (probably beer). I came out, got in a silver Dodge Colt Vista Wagon, unlocked the door, put my key in the ignition, started it, and drove off. Then I noticed a package of cigarettes on the dash (I don't smoke) and some other odd things. The car was not mine! I circled the parking lot and returned the car to the same spot, got out, got my stuff, found my car, and went on my way. Elliot Richmond Freelance Science Writer and Editor |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in
news:o9tNd.9422$gA4.3220@edtnps89: > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns95F5820D9F7C3jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. . >> >> Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a >> dealer to >> make keys from a VIN? > > Around here, a locksmith will ask to see the padlock that you want the > key cut for (if you have the key code only). > > Brian > > > A lady friend of mine locked her keys in her Camaro,and I took her to a dealer to get a new set made,and they wanted to see an insurance card with the lady's name and VIN from her car on it.(Florida) -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in
news:o9tNd.9422$gA4.3220@edtnps89: > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns95F5820D9F7C3jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. . >> >> Dojn't you have to show some proof you actually own the car for a >> dealer to >> make keys from a VIN? > > Around here, a locksmith will ask to see the padlock that you want the > key cut for (if you have the key code only). > > Brian > > > A lady friend of mine locked her keys in her Camaro,and I took her to a dealer to get a new set made,and they wanted to see an insurance card with the lady's name and VIN from her car on it.(Florida) -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns95F67F111333Ejyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . > > A lady friend of mine locked her keys in her Camaro,and I took her to a > dealer to get a new set made,and they wanted to see an insurance card with > the lady's name and VIN from her car on it.(Florida) It's good to see that some businesses are at least making an effort to keep everyone legal <g>. Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns95F67F111333Ejyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . > > A lady friend of mine locked her keys in her Camaro,and I took her to a > dealer to get a new set made,and they wanted to see an insurance card with > the lady's name and VIN from her car on it.(Florida) It's good to see that some businesses are at least making an effort to keep everyone legal <g>. Brian |
Re: Stolen Honda
Probably someone had the same key. I used to own a 1984 Toyota corolla, and
was looking at buying a newer car. It was a 1989 Toyota Celica, and it was left parked in a lot so I could go look at it. I tried my key for my corolla, just for fun, and sure enough it fit and opened the door.... <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > |
Re: Stolen Honda
Probably someone had the same key. I used to own a 1984 Toyota corolla, and
was looking at buying a newer car. It was a 1989 Toyota Celica, and it was left parked in a lot so I could go look at it. I tried my key for my corolla, just for fun, and sure enough it fit and opened the door.... <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > |
Re: Stolen Honda
They used a "slimjim" to gain access to the vehicle....can't explain how
they were so clean in starting the car though. FWIW, if you have a Mitsubishi Mighty Max PU, you can gain entry into the locked cab with a rectangular shaped cardboard box cut out. <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > > |
Re: Stolen Honda
They used a "slimjim" to gain access to the vehicle....can't explain how
they were so clean in starting the car though. FWIW, if you have a Mitsubishi Mighty Max PU, you can gain entry into the locked cab with a rectangular shaped cardboard box cut out. <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > this possible? > > |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Larry" <ziggy_calif@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TJyOd.3621$ZZ.1571@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ... > They used a "slimjim" to gain access to the vehicle....can't explain how > they were so clean in starting the car though. FWIW, if you have a > Mitsubishi Mighty Max PU, you can gain entry into the locked cab with a > rectangular shaped cardboard box cut out. > > My son and his wife were locked out of their '89 Accord LXi when we were visiting a couple years ago. I called road service and the guy who showed up was confident he would get it open. The Slim Jim (his first attempt) simply didn't do the job - there was nothing he could hook to move it in a direction he could use. (Slim Jims are made for the type of lock that lift up to unlock.) Ultimately he used two padded pry bars and a set of padded wedges to pull the top rear of the driver's door away from the body and he went through that gap to get a hook on the door lock. It took him maybe 15 or 20 minutes, and he was very conspicuous while doing it. He really earned his $35! Mike > <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >> this possible? >> >> > > |
Re: Stolen Honda
"Larry" <ziggy_calif@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TJyOd.3621$ZZ.1571@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ... > They used a "slimjim" to gain access to the vehicle....can't explain how > they were so clean in starting the car though. FWIW, if you have a > Mitsubishi Mighty Max PU, you can gain entry into the locked cab with a > rectangular shaped cardboard box cut out. > > My son and his wife were locked out of their '89 Accord LXi when we were visiting a couple years ago. I called road service and the guy who showed up was confident he would get it open. The Slim Jim (his first attempt) simply didn't do the job - there was nothing he could hook to move it in a direction he could use. (Slim Jims are made for the type of lock that lift up to unlock.) Ultimately he used two padded pry bars and a set of padded wedges to pull the top rear of the driver's door away from the body and he went through that gap to get a hook on the door lock. It took him maybe 15 or 20 minutes, and he was very conspicuous while doing it. He really earned his $35! Mike > <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... >> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither >> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is >> this possible? >> >> > > |
Re: Stolen Honda
I have, one more than one occasion taken my slim jim, put a bend in it
inserted it through the top of the door, and knocked at the lock sideways until it popped open. I have also used cb and ham radio antenae on a number of occasions. Honda'a arent that hard to get into, although they are harder than the old K cars, 7seconds start to entry. Dan "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:SNWdnSsCS5neS5ffRVn-gw@sedona.net... > "Larry" <ziggy_calif@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:TJyOd.3621$ZZ.1571@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ... > > They used a "slimjim" to gain access to the vehicle....can't explain how > > they were so clean in starting the car though. FWIW, if you have a > > Mitsubishi Mighty Max PU, you can gain entry into the locked cab with a > > rectangular shaped cardboard box cut out. > > > > > My son and his wife were locked out of their '89 Accord LXi when we were > visiting a couple years ago. I called road service and the guy who showed up > was confident he would get it open. The Slim Jim (his first attempt) simply > didn't do the job - there was nothing he could hook to move it in a > direction he could use. (Slim Jims are made for the type of lock that lift > up to unlock.) Ultimately he used two padded pry bars and a set of padded > wedges to pull the top rear of the driver's door away from the body and he > went through that gap to get a hook on the door lock. It took him maybe 15 > or 20 minutes, and he was very conspicuous while doing it. He really earned > his $35! > > Mike > > > <GillPickle@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1107659611.910160.200730@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com... > >> My '92 honda accord was stolen and recovered a few days later. Neither > >> the door lock nor the ignition lock show any sign of tampering. How is > >> this possible? > >> > >> > > > > > > |
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