Luigi Topolino

My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull
the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I
find a new mechanic?

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull
> the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I
> find a new mechanic?
>
yes. the weight of the car holds the towers in place. only need to
remove the nuts and bolt on from what i can see.

E Meyer

Yes


On 4/7/07 1:26 PM, in article mukf13p2psv9e6cb26qijqjpnv7j1p3816@4ax.com,
"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:

> My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull
> the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I
> find a new mechanic?

Luigi Topolino

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>yes.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>Yes

That's what I figured, thank you both.

Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?


--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> yes.
>
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>> Yes
>
> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>
> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>
>
not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
can get it online at helm.com.

Luigi Topolino

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>Luigi Topolino wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> yes.
>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>> Yes
>>
>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>
>not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>can get it online at helm.com.

Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
I just want to get the brace in this weekend.

Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
springs, if need be.

I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
at speed.

Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).


--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> yes.
>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes
>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>
>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>> can get it online at helm.com.
>
> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>
> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
> springs, if need be.
>
> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
> at speed.
>
> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>
>
dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard - and
honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.

as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
want looks, most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
better off spending the money on decent rubber. better yet, buy a civic
or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.

Luigi Topolino

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>Luigi Topolino wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> yes.
>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> Yes
>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>
>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>
>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>
>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>> springs, if need be.
>>
>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>> at speed.
>>
>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>
>dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard

....If it does, they're made of linguini.

The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
increase in straightline ride harshness.

>- and
>honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.

Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.

>as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>want looks,

I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
entertain any suggestions.

>most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>better off spending the money on decent rubber.

I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.

They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.

And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.

>better yet, buy a civic
>or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.

I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
I still miss it.

This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.

I thank you for your input.

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> yes.
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes
>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>
>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>
>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>> springs, if need be.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>> at speed.
>>>
>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>
>> dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>> aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>
> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>
> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
> increase in straightline ride harshness.

buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if
you want accord running gear.

>
>> - and
>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.
>
> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.

is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with
my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you?

>
>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>> want looks,
>
> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
> entertain any suggestions.

then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the
bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear.
it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front
toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy".

>
>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>> better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>
> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.

1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you.
2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at
the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you.

>
> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>
> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.

get the alignment set right.

>
>> better yet, buy a civic
>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.
>
> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
> I still miss it.
>
> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.

so why can't you commute in an integra? "2ner" parts are much more
available.

>
> I thank you for your input.
>

for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in
my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway
bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but
they definitely make for harsher straight line ride, and some of the
aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use
over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that
the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't -
particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at
any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends.

bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this
means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which
match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars
from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually
inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well
enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and
front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have
the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent
rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars. look
into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect
cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering
response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on
the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play
with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use.

l390f

your best bang for the buck is front/rear anti sway bars. Suspension
Techniques makes a nice set that requires no drilling, only existing bolt
mounting points are used.
"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:c7sq139bf2jer3qn3nvglc362kc3tbic5s@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> yes.
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes
>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>
>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle.
>>>> you
>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>>
>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>
>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>> springs, if need be.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>> at speed.
>>>
>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>
>>dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>>aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>
> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>
> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
> increase in straightline ride harshness.
>
>>- and
>>honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>>some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket
>>kits.
>
> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.
>
>>as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>>want looks,
>
> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
> entertain any suggestions.
>
>>most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>>better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>
> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.
>
> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>
> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.
>
>>better yet, buy a civic
>>or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this
>>stuff.
>
> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
> I still miss it.
>
> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.
>
> I thank you for your input.
>
> --
>
> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Luigi Topolino

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:12:25 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>Luigi Topolino wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> yes.
>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>>
>>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>>
>>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>>> springs, if need be.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>>> at speed.
>>>>
>>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>>
>>> dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>>> aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>>
>> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>>
>> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
>> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
>> increase in straightline ride harshness.
>
>buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if
>you want accord running gear.

I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.

>>> - and
>>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>>> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.
>>
>> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.
>
>is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with
>my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you?

Not a lot (and one way), in a car that can turn.

>>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>>> want looks,
>>
>> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
>> entertain any suggestions.
>
>then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the
>bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear.
> it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front
>toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy".

There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked
at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me.

>>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>>> better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>>
>> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
>> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.
>
>1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you.

Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me.

>2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at
>the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you.

Again, they're the last ditch option, and if they offend me I'll ditch
them.

>> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
>> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>>
>> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
>> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
>> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.
>
>get the alignment set right.

My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related.

>>> better yet, buy a civic
>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.
>>
>> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
>> I still miss it.
>>
>> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
>> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.
>
>so why can't you commute in an integra?

Because I have an Accord.

> "2ner" parts are much more available.

There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention.

>> I thank you for your input.
>
>for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in
>my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway
>bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but
>they definitely make for harsher straight line ride,

They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion
joints.

>and some of the
>aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use
>over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that
>the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't -
>particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at
>any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends.

I'm not them and that's not my intention.

Do you have any direct experience with Intrax?

>bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this
>means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which
>match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars
>from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually
>inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well
>enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and
>front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have
>the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent
>rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars.

My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks.

>look
>into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect
>cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering
>response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on
>the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play
>with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use.

Bottom line: I'm "stuck" with the Accord for a couple of years.
I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want
to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box.

1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150
1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting
points. ~$250 plus $60labor

Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs.

~$750, and should get the job done.

Thanks

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:12:25 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> yes.
>>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>>>> springs, if need be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>>>> at speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>>>
>>>> dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>>>> aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>>> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>>>
>>> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
>>> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
>>> increase in straightline ride harshness.
>> buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if
>> you want accord running gear.
>
> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.
>
>>>> - and
>>>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>>>> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.
>>> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.
>> is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with
>> my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you?
>
> Not a lot (and one way), in a car that can turn.
>
>>>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>>>> want looks,
>>> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
>>> entertain any suggestions.
>> then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the
>> bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear.
>> it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front
>> toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy".
>
> There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked
> at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me.

it'll still plow with sway bars if you don't address the problem. the
body won't roll as much at the same time, but it'll still plow.

>
>>>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>>>> better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>>> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
>>> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.
>> 1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you.
>
> Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me.

er, i'm speaking from experience dude. sorry if i'm not telling you
what you want to hear. you'll notice the difference of the stiffer
rears, but that's not the same as height-affected roll dynamics.

>
>> 2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at
>> the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you.
>
> Again, they're the last ditch option, and if they offend me I'll ditch
> them.
>
>>> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
>>> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>>>
>>> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
>>> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
>>> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.
>> get the alignment set right.
>
> My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related.

you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem, not a roll
stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they
don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect
the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions.

>
>>>> better yet, buy a civic
>>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.
>>> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
>>> I still miss it.
>>>
>>> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
>>> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.
>> so why can't you commute in an integra?
>
> Because I have an Accord.

but it's big and heavy. big and heavy means poorer cornering - basic
physics.

>
>> "2ner" parts are much more available.
>
> There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention.
>
>>> I thank you for your input.
>> for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in
>> my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway
>> bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but
>> they definitely make for harsher straight line ride,
>
> They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion
> joints.

not true. almost no bump, let alone expansion joint, is same height
both sides. if it's not, then the sway bar /is/ doing to affect the
straight line ride.

>
>> and some of the
>> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use
>> over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that
>> the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't -
>> particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at
>> any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends.
>
> I'm not them and that's not my intention.

so why fit aftermarket equipment?

>
> Do you have any direct experience with Intrax?

no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and
mugen sway bars.

>
>> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this
>> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which
>> match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars
>>from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually
>> inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well
>> enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and
>> front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have
>> the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent
>> rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars.
>
> My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks.

then something's wrong! and it isn't the sway bars.

>
>> look
>> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect
>> cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering
>> response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on
>> the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play
>> with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use.
>
> Bottom line: I'm "stuck" with the Accord for a couple of years.
> I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want
> to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box.

while you don't have to spend a fortune, you /do/ have to do work if you
want to improve this vehicle.

>
> 1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150
> 1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting
> points. ~$250 plus $60labor

prelude sh rear is 23mm - significantly stiffer.

>
> Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs.
>
> ~$750, and should get the job done.
>
> Thanks
>

what tires do you have?

Luigi Topolino

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:50:33 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>Luigi Topolino wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:12:25 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> yes.
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>>>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>>>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>>>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>>>>> springs, if need be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>>>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>>>>> at speed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>>>>
>>>>> dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>>>>> aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>>>> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>>>>
>>>> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
>>>> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
>>>> increase in straightline ride harshness.
>>> buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if
>>> you want accord running gear.
>>
>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
>> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
>> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.
>>
>>>>> - and
>>>>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>>>>> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.
>>>> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.
>>> is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with
>>> my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you?
>>
>> Not a lot (and one way), in a car that can turn.
>>
>>>>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>>>>> want looks,
>>>> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
>>>> entertain any suggestions.
>>> then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the
>>> bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear.
>>> it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front
>>> toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy".
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked
>> at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me.
>
>it'll still plow with sway bars if you don't address the problem. the
>body won't roll as much at the same time, but it'll still plow.
>
>>
>>>>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>>>>> better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>>>> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
>>>> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.
>>> 1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you.
>>
>> Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me.
>
>er, i'm speaking from experience dude. sorry if i'm not telling you
>what you want to hear. you'll notice the difference of the stiffer
>rears, but that's not the same as height-affected roll dynamics.
>
>>
>>> 2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at
>>> the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you.
>>
>> Again, they're the last ditch option, and if they offend me I'll ditch
>> them.
>>
>>>> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
>>>> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>>>>
>>>> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
>>>> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
>>>> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.
>>> get the alignment set right.
>>
>> My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related.
>
>you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem,

It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires.

>not a roll
>stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they
>don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect
>the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions.

[!]

>>>>> better yet, buy a civic
>>>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.
>>>> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
>>>> I still miss it.
>>>>
>>>> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
>>>> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.
>>> so why can't you commute in an integra?
>>
>> Because I have an Accord.
>
>but it's big and heavy. big and heavy means poorer cornering - basic
>physics.

It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight
distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars.

>>> "2ner" parts are much more available.
>>
>> There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention.
>>
>>>> I thank you for your input.
>>> for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in
>>> my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway
>>> bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but
>>> they definitely make for harsher straight line ride,
>>
>> They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion
>> joints.
>
>not true. almost no bump, let alone expansion joint, is same height
>both sides. if it's not, then the sway bar /is/ doing to affect the
>straight line ride.

Nonsense. Sway bars do not appreciably affect straightline ride, and
the mm difference between left-right side expansion joint height is
imperceptible.

You can't feel 20mm in ride height but 2mm on the road surface is
dramatic to you?

>>> and some of the
>>> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use
>>> over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that
>>> the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't -
>>> particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at
>>> any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends.
>>
>> I'm not them and that's not my intention.
>
>so why fit aftermarket equipment?

Because the stock fitments are not to my satisfaction.

>> Do you have any direct experience with Intrax?
>
>no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and
>mugen sway bars.

So why slag what you don't know?

>>> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this
>>> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which
>>> match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars
>>>from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually
>>> inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well
>>> enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and
>>> front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have
>>> the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent
>>> rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars.
>>
>> My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks.
>
>then something's wrong! and it isn't the sway bars.

What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall.

>>> look
>>> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect
>>> cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering
>>> response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on
>>> the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play
>>> with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use.
>>
>> Bottom line: I'm "stuck" with the Accord for a couple of years.
>> I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want
>> to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box.
>
>while you don't have to spend a fortune, you /do/ have to do work if you
>want to improve this vehicle.
>
>>
>> 1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150
>> 1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting
>> points. ~$250 plus $60labor
>
>prelude sh rear is 23mm - significantly stiffer.

....So what? I don't car about Civics, Integras, or Preludes.

>> Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs.
>>
>> ~$750, and should get the job done.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>what tires do you have?

Thanks for your input.

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Michael Pardee

"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:kaa223di81g7skod0cuj74l7jpfmln87dp@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:50:33 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>
>>you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem,
>
> It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires.
>

FWIW, I got a new F350 SD truck at work last year. It had Continental
ContiTrack (sp?) tires and it had a big problem: when it hit any roughness,
even a patch in the pavement, at freeway speeds the truck would shake wildly
for about two seconds. I took it to Ford and they replaced all 4 tires with
new identical tires... problem fixed. They said that was very common.

You can easily check the tire wear. Put a strip of masking tape from
sidewall to sidewall on each front tire, then drive a mile or so on
reasonably straight road and look at the wear pattern on the tape. The way
the tape wears is the way the tires will wear.

If both outside edges are worn, the wheels are toed in too much. If both
inside edges are worn, the wheels are toed out. If the wear is inconsistent
from one tire to the other, or if the wear is okay and the feel is still
screwy, you need to get an expert to figure out why. Camber and caster will
affect the balance between stability and steering force. (Camber affects
tire wear a lot less than you'd think; the tire wears like it was shaved
evenly with a slight bevel - no edge wear.)

Mike

jim beam

Luigi Topolino wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:50:33 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:12:25 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:56:30 -0700, jim beam
>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:52 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Luigi Topolino wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam
>>>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> yes.
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:22:23 GMT, E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>>> That's what I figured, thank you both.
>>>>>>>>> Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual
>>>>>>>> will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you
>>>>>>>> can get it online at helm.com.
>>>>>>> Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench:
>>>>>>> I just want to get the brace in this weekend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport
>>>>>>> springs, if need be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need
>>>>>>> to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires
>>>>>>> at speed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing
>>>>>> aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard
>>>>> ...If it does, they're made of linguini.
>>>>>
>>>>> The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer
>>>>> sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least
>>>>> increase in straightline ride harshness.
>>>> buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if
>>>> you want accord running gear.
>>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car.
>>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car
>>> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to
>>> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter.
>>>
>>>>>> - and
>>>>>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than
>>>>>> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits.
>>>>> Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day.
>>>> is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with
>>>> my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you?
>>> Not a lot (and one way), in a car that can turn.
>>>
>>>>>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you
>>>>>> want looks,
>>>>> I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will
>>>>> entertain any suggestions.
>>>> then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the
>>>> bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear.
>>>> it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front
>>>> toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy".
>>> There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked
>>> at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me.
>> it'll still plow with sway bars if you don't address the problem. the
>> body won't roll as much at the same time, but it'll still plow.
>>
>>>>>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're
>>>>>> better off spending the money on decent rubber.
>>>>> I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of
>>>>> good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways.
>>>> 1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you.
>>> Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me.
>> er, i'm speaking from experience dude. sorry if i'm not telling you
>> what you want to hear. you'll notice the difference of the stiffer
>> rears, but that's not the same as height-affected roll dynamics.
>>
>>>> 2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at
>>>> the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you.
>>> Again, they're the last ditch option, and if they offend me I'll ditch
>>> them.
>>>
>>>>> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the
>>>>> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more
>>>>> expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I
>>>>> can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working.
>>>> get the alignment set right.
>>> My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related.
>> you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem,
>
> It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires.

who says it doesn't have an alignment problem? what are the readings
from your last alignment?

which model tire? [some continentals are abysmal.]

>
>> not a roll
>> stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they
>> don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect
>> the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions.
>
> [!]

sway bars affect roll, not cornering - they don't affect the contact
geometry.

>
>>>>>> better yet, buy a civic
>>>>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff.
>>>>> I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years.
>>>>> I still miss it.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few
>>>>> years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable.
>>>> so why can't you commute in an integra?
>>> Because I have an Accord.
>> but it's big and heavy. big and heavy means poorer cornering - basic
>> physics.
>
> It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight
> distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars.

and how much wider are the bmw tires??? and what's the quality
difference? and what about the 5 series? you've got to compare like
with like.

>
>>>> "2ner" parts are much more available.
>>> There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention.
>>>
>>>>> I thank you for your input.
>>>> for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in
>>>> my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway
>>>> bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but
>>>> they definitely make for harsher straight line ride,
>>> They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion
>>> joints.
>> not true. almost no bump, let alone expansion joint, is same height
>> both sides. if it's not, then the sway bar /is/ doing to affect the
>> straight line ride.
>
> Nonsense. Sway bars do not appreciably affect straightline ride,

they do if the left/right bump is not exactly the same.

> and
> the mm difference between left-right side expansion joint height is
> imperceptible.

you need to drive in california some time!!! if we had millimeter
differentials over here, we'd get out of the car and start kicking the
tires so see if something was wrong if the road suddenly got that smooth
on us.

>
> You can't feel 20mm in ride height but 2mm on the road surface is
> dramatic to you?

20mm is ~10% of total travel, and within the sag of oem. if the spring
ratings are the same, you'd not notice this above a small change in tire
pressure difference.

and 2mm is /not/ a reasonable estimate of differential - it's more like
20mm, which you /do/ feel.

>
>>>> and some of the
>>>> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use
>>>> over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that
>>>> the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't -
>>>> particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at
>>>> any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends.
>>> I'm not them and that's not my intention.
>> so why fit aftermarket equipment?
>
> Because the stock fitments are not to my satisfaction.

what's rating difference between what you're proposing and stock?

>
>>> Do you have any direct experience with Intrax?
>> no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and
>> mugen sway bars.
>
> So why slag what you don't know?

i'm not slagging what i don't know - i'm discussing what i /do/ know.

1. oem are more precise fit than aftermarket - that i know from messing
with other people's sway bars. and
2. your aftermarket bars are not going to be stiffer than oem unless
they're thicker.

that's why i discussed your oem options. mugen are suppliers to honda
for race equipment.

>
>>>> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this
>>>> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which
>>>> match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars
>>> >from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually
>>>> inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well
>>>> enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and
>>>> front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have
>>>> the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent
>>>> rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars.
>>> My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks.
>> then something's wrong! and it isn't the sway bars.
>
> What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall.

and that's your problem - it's tires, not sway bars. there's no way
that should be happening. a sway bar can't cure that - it doesn't
affect the camber or scrub geometry - all it does is stop the body
rolling relative to the road surface.

>
>>>> look
>>>> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect
>>>> cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering
>>>> response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on
>>>> the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play
>>>> with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use.
>>> Bottom line: I'm "stuck" with the Accord for a couple of years.
>>> I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want
>>> to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box.
>> while you don't have to spend a fortune, you /do/ have to do work if you
>> want to improve this vehicle.
>>
>>> 1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150
>>> 1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting
>>> points. ~$250 plus $60labor
>> prelude sh rear is 23mm - significantly stiffer.
>
> ...So what? I don't car about Civics, Integras, or Preludes.

but you want equipment that fits! the oem i cited is stiffer than that
aftermarket stuff you're talking about. and civics and integras have
many more "upgrade" options available than accords.

>
>>> Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs.
>>>
>>> ~$750, and should get the job done.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>> what tires do you have?
>
> Thanks for your input.
>

is this car on a lease?