Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in news:gOboi.8957
$rR.1876@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> I wish I understood how the tensioner works well enough
>>> to
>>> write this experience up, with photos. I am holding onto
>>> the
>>> old tensioner and spring for awhile to see if I become
>>> "inspired."
>>
>> Take some pics. Post them.
>
> See http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html for
> photos, along with an explanation of where I am confused. I
> started a discussion at honda-tech.com as well. So far, one
> person has commented that the "hole" has to go on a certain
> peg. Which makes some sense, since I was wondering what the
> hole opposite the one where the tensioner attaches is for.
> Newer Civic tensioner adjusting instructions make reference
> to pegging down the tensioner..., though the design is a bit
> different.
>
> I think I may have to go back in there and at least check
> everything. All is fine after a few days of driving around
> 100 miles, highway and suburban. But...
>
>
>


I had a look at the photos on your site.

Something does not look right.

See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it? You'll notice the
curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the right of the
photos.

The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner. This is surely
incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation. The spring should
be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its current
position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the tensioner.

The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away from the
crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be AXIAL to the
crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.

See this pic:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf

I marked it up kinda quickly, so you may have to spend a bit of time
figuring out what goes where.

If this is not clear (and I suspect it will not be), let me know and I will
redo in more dramatic fashion.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:


>
> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,



RADIAL, sorry.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:


>
> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,



RADIAL, sorry.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:


>
> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,



RADIAL, sorry.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Elle wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> I wish I understood how the tensioner works well enough
>>> to
>>> write this experience up, with photos. I am holding onto
>>> the
>>> old tensioner and spring for awhile to see if I become
>>> "inspired."
>> Take some pics. Post them.
>
> See http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html for
> photos, along with an explanation of where I am confused. I
> started a discussion at honda-tech.com as well. So far, one
> person has commented that the "hole" has to go on a certain
> peg. Which makes some sense, since I was wondering what the
> hole opposite the one where the tensioner attaches is for.
> Newer Civic tensioner adjusting instructions make reference
> to pegging down the tensioner..., though the design is a bit
> different.
>
> I think I may have to go back in there and at least check
> everything. All is fine after a few days of driving around
> 100 miles, highway and suburban. But...
>
>

that spring doesn't look right. it's /definitely/ not correctly
oriented. it should be a shorter thicker spring, and it's got a plastic
sleeve on it. it hooks onto a pin above the idler so that it causes the
idler to rotate about its fixed pivot point.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Elle wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> I wish I understood how the tensioner works well enough
>>> to
>>> write this experience up, with photos. I am holding onto
>>> the
>>> old tensioner and spring for awhile to see if I become
>>> "inspired."
>> Take some pics. Post them.
>
> See http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html for
> photos, along with an explanation of where I am confused. I
> started a discussion at honda-tech.com as well. So far, one
> person has commented that the "hole" has to go on a certain
> peg. Which makes some sense, since I was wondering what the
> hole opposite the one where the tensioner attaches is for.
> Newer Civic tensioner adjusting instructions make reference
> to pegging down the tensioner..., though the design is a bit
> different.
>
> I think I may have to go back in there and at least check
> everything. All is fine after a few days of driving around
> 100 miles, highway and suburban. But...
>
>

that spring doesn't look right. it's /definitely/ not correctly
oriented. it should be a shorter thicker spring, and it's got a plastic
sleeve on it. it hooks onto a pin above the idler so that it causes the
idler to rotate about its fixed pivot point.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Elle wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> I wish I understood how the tensioner works well enough
>>> to
>>> write this experience up, with photos. I am holding onto
>>> the
>>> old tensioner and spring for awhile to see if I become
>>> "inspired."
>> Take some pics. Post them.
>
> See http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html for
> photos, along with an explanation of where I am confused. I
> started a discussion at honda-tech.com as well. So far, one
> person has commented that the "hole" has to go on a certain
> peg. Which makes some sense, since I was wondering what the
> hole opposite the one where the tensioner attaches is for.
> Newer Civic tensioner adjusting instructions make reference
> to pegging down the tensioner..., though the design is a bit
> different.
>
> I think I may have to go back in there and at least check
> everything. All is fine after a few days of driving around
> 100 miles, highway and suburban. But...
>
>

that spring doesn't look right. it's /definitely/ not correctly
oriented. it should be a shorter thicker spring, and it's got a plastic
sleeve on it. it hooks onto a pin above the idler so that it causes the
idler to rotate about its fixed pivot point.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:

> The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,


RADIAL, sorry.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:

> The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,


RADIAL, sorry.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9973E1A27A43Ftegger@207.14.116.130:

> The spring must be AXIAL to the
> crank,


RADIAL, sorry.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
Re the photos at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html
> I had a look at the photos on your site.
>
> Something does not look right.
>
> See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it?
> You'll notice the
> curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the
> right of the
> photos.
>
> The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner.
> This is surely
> incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation.
> The spring should
> be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its
> current
> position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the
> tensioner.

My photo-taking bad: The new tensioner actually now
installed on my Honda does have the spring "acting"
tangentially. What I photographed was a "mock-up" using the
old tensioner and old spring, thrown together hastily with
no attention to detail.

I checked several Hondas at the junkyard yesterday. As far
as the spring orientation is concerned, these Hondas'
tensioner installations look like my Honda's.

> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away
> from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be
> AXIAL to the
> crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.
>
> See this pic:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf

I can follow this drawing very easily. Thank you. What you
labeled the "pivot point" is where I may have messed up.
While I wondered about that "pivot point" hole opposite
where the spring attaches, I did not figure out that it was
a pivot point.

At this point I have been searching for instructions
specifically on "tensioner installation," because none of my
FS manuals say anything about looking for this peg and
hanging the tensioner on it... It's not like this peg is
easy to notice, given the tightness of this space. Nothing
in the newsgroup archives mentions this, either. I guess it
should have been obvious that the other, larger hole does
have a function.

I think the only question now is whether I should go back in
there, check everything, and follow the steps for tensioning
again, this time paying more attention to the peg etc.
Before starting the car a few days ago, I rotate the
crankshaft about three times and watched the TB. Also, it's
been 150 miles of problem-free driving since then.

Admittedly I can probably get back in there and out again in
a morning at this point.

Or maybe I can just take the upper timing cover off and feel
to see if the spring is in tension? I think I was getting
away with this at the junkyard yesterday.

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
Re the photos at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html
> I had a look at the photos on your site.
>
> Something does not look right.
>
> See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it?
> You'll notice the
> curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the
> right of the
> photos.
>
> The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner.
> This is surely
> incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation.
> The spring should
> be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its
> current
> position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the
> tensioner.

My photo-taking bad: The new tensioner actually now
installed on my Honda does have the spring "acting"
tangentially. What I photographed was a "mock-up" using the
old tensioner and old spring, thrown together hastily with
no attention to detail.

I checked several Hondas at the junkyard yesterday. As far
as the spring orientation is concerned, these Hondas'
tensioner installations look like my Honda's.

> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away
> from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be
> AXIAL to the
> crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.
>
> See this pic:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf

I can follow this drawing very easily. Thank you. What you
labeled the "pivot point" is where I may have messed up.
While I wondered about that "pivot point" hole opposite
where the spring attaches, I did not figure out that it was
a pivot point.

At this point I have been searching for instructions
specifically on "tensioner installation," because none of my
FS manuals say anything about looking for this peg and
hanging the tensioner on it... It's not like this peg is
easy to notice, given the tightness of this space. Nothing
in the newsgroup archives mentions this, either. I guess it
should have been obvious that the other, larger hole does
have a function.

I think the only question now is whether I should go back in
there, check everything, and follow the steps for tensioning
again, this time paying more attention to the peg etc.
Before starting the car a few days ago, I rotate the
crankshaft about three times and watched the TB. Also, it's
been 150 miles of problem-free driving since then.

Admittedly I can probably get back in there and out again in
a morning at this point.

Or maybe I can just take the upper timing cover off and feel
to see if the spring is in tension? I think I was getting
away with this at the junkyard yesterday.

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
Re the photos at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html
> I had a look at the photos on your site.
>
> Something does not look right.
>
> See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it?
> You'll notice the
> curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the
> right of the
> photos.
>
> The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner.
> This is surely
> incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation.
> The spring should
> be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its
> current
> position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the
> tensioner.

My photo-taking bad: The new tensioner actually now
installed on my Honda does have the spring "acting"
tangentially. What I photographed was a "mock-up" using the
old tensioner and old spring, thrown together hastily with
no attention to detail.

I checked several Hondas at the junkyard yesterday. As far
as the spring orientation is concerned, these Hondas'
tensioner installations look like my Honda's.

> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away
> from the
> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be
> AXIAL to the
> crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.
>
> See this pic:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf

I can follow this drawing very easily. Thank you. What you
labeled the "pivot point" is where I may have messed up.
While I wondered about that "pivot point" hole opposite
where the spring attaches, I did not figure out that it was
a pivot point.

At this point I have been searching for instructions
specifically on "tensioner installation," because none of my
FS manuals say anything about looking for this peg and
hanging the tensioner on it... It's not like this peg is
easy to notice, given the tightness of this space. Nothing
in the newsgroup archives mentions this, either. I guess it
should have been obvious that the other, larger hole does
have a function.

I think the only question now is whether I should go back in
there, check everything, and follow the steps for tensioning
again, this time paying more attention to the peg etc.
Before starting the car a few days ago, I rotate the
crankshaft about three times and watched the TB. Also, it's
been 150 miles of problem-free driving since then.

Admittedly I can probably get back in there and out again in
a morning at this point.

Or maybe I can just take the upper timing cover off and feel
to see if the spring is in tension? I think I was getting
away with this at the junkyard yesterday.

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Elle wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> Re the photos at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html
>> I had a look at the photos on your site.
>>
>> Something does not look right.
>>
>> See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it?
>> You'll notice the
>> curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the
>> right of the
>> photos.
>>
>> The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner.
>> This is surely
>> incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation.
>> The spring should
>> be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its
>> current
>> position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the
>> tensioner.
>
> My photo-taking bad: The new tensioner actually now
> installed on my Honda does have the spring "acting"
> tangentially. What I photographed was a "mock-up" using the
> old tensioner and old spring, thrown together hastily with
> no attention to detail.
>
> I checked several Hondas at the junkyard yesterday. As far
> as the spring orientation is concerned, these Hondas'
> tensioner installations look like my Honda's.
>
>> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away
>> from the
>> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be
>> AXIAL to the
>> crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.
>>
>> See this pic:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf
>
> I can follow this drawing very easily. Thank you. What you
> labeled the "pivot point" is where I may have messed up.
> While I wondered about that "pivot point" hole opposite
> where the spring attaches, I did not figure out that it was
> a pivot point.
>
> At this point I have been searching for instructions
> specifically on "tensioner installation," because none of my
> FS manuals say anything about looking for this peg and
> hanging the tensioner on it... It's not like this peg is
> easy to notice, given the tightness of this space. Nothing
> in the newsgroup archives mentions this, either. I guess it
> should have been obvious that the other, larger hole does
> have a function.
>
> I think the only question now is whether I should go back in
> there, check everything, and follow the steps for tensioning
> again, this time paying more attention to the peg etc.
> Before starting the car a few days ago, I rotate the
> crankshaft about three times and watched the TB. Also, it's
> been 150 miles of problem-free driving since then.

you can drive with a very slack belt for some time, but it could skip at
random. a slack belt also gives flutter on the timing/sensor signals.

best to check it's assembled right and re-tension per the book. ensures
another 100k of trouble free mileage and peak performance.


>
> Admittedly I can probably get back in there and out again in
> a morning at this point.
>
> Or maybe I can just take the upper timing cover off and feel
> to see if the spring is in tension? I think I was getting
> away with this at the junkyard yesterday.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
>

Re: Setting Timing "Blind" [was Re: Timing Belt Tension Problems]
 

Elle wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> Re the photos at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id21.html
>> I had a look at the photos on your site.
>>
>> Something does not look right.
>>
>> See how the tensioner has a kidney-shaped hole in it?
>> You'll notice the
>> curve of the hole is axial to the pivot hole shown to the
>> right of the
>> photos.
>>
>> The spring is shown extending radially from the tensioner.
>> This is surely
>> incorrect: the spring cannot operate in this orientation.
>> The spring should
>> be rotated 90 degrees either one way or the other from its
>> current
>> position. In other words, it should be TANGENT to the
>> tensioner.
>
> My photo-taking bad: The new tensioner actually now
> installed on my Honda does have the spring "acting"
> tangentially. What I photographed was a "mock-up" using the
> old tensioner and old spring, thrown together hastily with
> no attention to detail.
>
> I checked several Hondas at the junkyard yesterday. As far
> as the spring orientation is concerned, these Hondas'
> tensioner installations look like my Honda's.
>
>> The purpose of the spring is to pull the tensioner away
>> from the
>> crankshaft, pulling the belt with it. The spring must be
>> AXIAL to the
>> crank, but TANGENT to the tensioner.
>>
>> See this pic:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/tensioner.pdf
>
> I can follow this drawing very easily. Thank you. What you
> labeled the "pivot point" is where I may have messed up.
> While I wondered about that "pivot point" hole opposite
> where the spring attaches, I did not figure out that it was
> a pivot point.
>
> At this point I have been searching for instructions
> specifically on "tensioner installation," because none of my
> FS manuals say anything about looking for this peg and
> hanging the tensioner on it... It's not like this peg is
> easy to notice, given the tightness of this space. Nothing
> in the newsgroup archives mentions this, either. I guess it
> should have been obvious that the other, larger hole does
> have a function.
>
> I think the only question now is whether I should go back in
> there, check everything, and follow the steps for tensioning
> again, this time paying more attention to the peg etc.
> Before starting the car a few days ago, I rotate the
> crankshaft about three times and watched the TB. Also, it's
> been 150 miles of problem-free driving since then.

you can drive with a very slack belt for some time, but it could skip at
random. a slack belt also gives flutter on the timing/sensor signals.

best to check it's assembled right and re-tension per the book. ensures
another 100k of trouble free mileage and peak performance.


>
> Admittedly I can probably get back in there and out again in
> a morning at this point.
>
> Or maybe I can just take the upper timing cover off and feel
> to see if the spring is in tension? I think I was getting
> away with this at the junkyard yesterday.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
>