A Rangers Fan

Hi guys,

I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
changed (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the
car was *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required
me to move the steering wheel left and right. I took it back to the shop
and they told me that I needed something called a "camber" replaced - it
was worn. I gave them $280 and they replaced it. On driving home for the
second time, I found that it was still vibrating - you could really feel
it on the steering wheel, and on the floor of the passenger side. I took
it back again and they did an alignment. It still vibrates even now -
usually start to feel it about 40-50mph (on perfectly flat roads). It
doesn't vibrate as much now, but it's still noticeable. My ride was
perfectly smooth before I took it in there for the original rotation.

Any opinions on how to proceed or what could possibly be wrong. If it's
relevant, it's got about 57k miles on the clock.

Should I... take the car to an actual Honda mechanic (verify that the
new camber is the right kind and properlly installed)? Have Big O rotate
the tires again to how they were originally, and how it rides? Something
else?

Xmas kicked my butt and money's tight right now. Will driving it further
do damage to my car? I would imagine it would have an impact on gas
mileage and tire life.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Lee

PS: Again, may not be relevant, but here's the history of my car:

20000 miles - steering rack had to be replaced (can't remember why).
35000 miles - CV joint fixed/replaced (loud cracking noises when turning
to extremes).

Eric

A Rangers Fan wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
> just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
> changed (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the
> car was *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required
> me to move the steering wheel left and right. I took it back to the shop
> and they told me that I needed something called a "camber" replaced - it
> was worn. I gave them $280 and they replaced it.

Camber is not a part. Camber is the angle that a tire tilts to the side
from perpendicular to the ground. Camber is measured in degrees. A
positive camber angle is when the top of the wheel is tilted out. However,
a negative camber angle is when the top of the wheel is tilted in. Problems
with the camber angle usually result from worn suspension parts that affect
the ride height such as the springs or worn control arm bushings. It's also
affected by people who try to re-engineer their cars and lower the
suspension without adjusting the alignment. Camber can be adjusted but it
can't be replaced. It would be interesting to know just exactly what they
replaced for $280!

Eric

N.E.Ohio Bob

Eric wrote:
> A Rangers Fan wrote:
>
>>Hi guys,
>>
>>I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
>>just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
>>changed (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the
>>car was *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required
>>me to move the steering wheel left and right. I took it back to the shop
>>and they told me that I needed something called a "camber" replaced - it
>>was worn. I gave them $280 and they replaced it.
>
>
> Camber is not a part. Camber is the angle that a tire tilts to the side
> from perpendicular to the ground. Camber is measured in degrees. A
> positive camber angle is when the top of the wheel is tilted out. However,
> a negative camber angle is when the top of the wheel is tilted in. Problems
> with the camber angle usually result from worn suspension parts that affect
> the ride height such as the springs or worn control arm bushings. It's also
> affected by people who try to re-engineer their cars and lower the
> suspension without adjusting the alignment. Camber can be adjusted but it
> can't be replaced. It would be interesting to know just exactly what they
> replaced for $280!
>
> Eric
I think they bent something, or didn't reinstall one of the wheels
correctly. Sounds like you need to have an expert look at your car, and
not someone who is learning while they earn. Alignment that is not to
spec does NOT cause vibration. bob.

Michael Pardee

"N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:F18vf.4646$%D1.471@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> I think they bent something, or didn't reinstall one of the wheels
> correctly. Sounds like you need to have an expert look at your car, and
> not someone who is learning while they earn. Alignment that is not to spec
> does NOT cause vibration. bob.

Exactly so. Misalignment can make vibration worse when something is worn or
loose, but won't cause vibration when everything is right. Weird steering,
yes; vibration, no.

Mike

TeGGeR®

A Rangers Fan <bluenose@nowayjose.com> wrote in
news:43bc3547$1@news3.es.net:

> Hi guys,
>
> I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
> just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
> changed (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the
> car was *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required
> me to move the steering wheel left and right.



Did they re-balance the tires? If so, there's one that's not seated
properly. Either that, or there was one that wasn't installed properly to
begin with, but was on the rear before, so it wasn't felt through the
steering.

Put the car up on a hoist about two or three feet off the ground. Start the
engine, let it idle and put the tranny in gear, letting the tires spin (if
one side doesn't spin, put some drag on the one that does). Now watch them
from the front of the car. The offending tire(s) will spin with a
noticeable side-to-side wobble and/or up-and-down bounce.

The rears you can spin by hand to check them.

If you find a tire that's bouncy or wobbly, they need to remount them
properly, using proper tire lube, not dish detergent and water. If they
can't be remounted properly, find a tire shop that doesn't hire ignorant
morons as installers.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam

A Rangers Fan wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
> just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
> changed (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the
> car was *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required
> me to move the steering wheel left and right. I took it back to the shop
> and they told me that I needed something called a "camber" replaced - it
> was worn. I gave them $280 and they replaced it. On driving home for the
> second time, I found that it was still vibrating - you could really feel
> it on the steering wheel, and on the floor of the passenger side. I took
> it back again and they did an alignment. It still vibrates even now -
> usually start to feel it about 40-50mph (on perfectly flat roads). It
> doesn't vibrate as much now, but it's still noticeable. My ride was
> perfectly smooth before I took it in there for the original rotation.
>
> Any opinions on how to proceed or what could possibly be wrong. If it's
> relevant, it's got about 57k miles on the clock.
>
> Should I... take the car to an actual Honda mechanic (verify that the
> new camber is the right kind and properlly installed)? Have Big O rotate
> the tires again to how they were originally, and how it rides? Something
> else?
>
> Xmas kicked my butt and money's tight right now. Will driving it further
> do damage to my car? I would imagine it would have an impact on gas
> mileage and tire life.
>
> Thanks in advance for any replies.
>
> Lee
>
> PS: Again, may not be relevant, but here's the history of my car:
>
> 20000 miles - steering rack had to be replaced (can't remember why).
> 35000 miles - CV joint fixed/replaced (loud cracking noises when turning
> to extremes).


you need to find another shop to take this car to, and urgently. your
existing place:

1. does't know what they're doing.
2. they're dishonest.

the cheap solution to vibration is making sure the tires/balance is ok.
have it done again. if that's not it, look for wheel bearings - not
unlikely given that you had a shaft replaced and the old bearing may
well have been damaged by an incompetent..

John Horner

A Rangers Fan wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
> just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil
> changed (every ~5000 miles).

It sounds like they screwed something up. Many tire shops are not
trustworthy in my experience. The next step is to have someone who you
are sure knows what the **** they are doing check things out.

John

Theodore Kaplan

I think this guy got sold a "BUCKET OF PROPWASH".
"A Rangers Fan" <bluenose@nowayjose.com> wrote in message
news:43bc3547$1@news3.es.net...
> Hi guys,
>
> I took my '03 Civic Sedan into a Big O Tires to have the tires rotated
> just before Christmas - I try and do this every time I get my oil changed
> (every ~5000 miles). Anyway, on the way home I noticed that the car was
> *really* vibrating and that driving in a straight line required me to move
> the steering wheel left and right. I took it back to the shop and they
> told me that I needed something called a "camber" replaced - it was worn.
> I gave them $280 and they replaced it. On driving home for the second
> time, I found that it was still vibrating - you could really feel it on
> the steering wheel, and on the floor of the passenger side. I took it back
> again and they did an alignment. It still vibrates even now - usually
> start to feel it about 40-50mph (on perfectly flat roads). It doesn't
> vibrate as much now, but it's still noticeable. My ride was perfectly
> smooth before I took it in there for the original rotation.
>
> Any opinions on how to proceed or what could possibly be wrong. If it's
> relevant, it's got about 57k miles on the clock.
>
> Should I... take the car to an actual Honda mechanic (verify that the new
> camber is the right kind and properlly installed)? Have Big O rotate the
> tires again to how they were originally, and how it rides? Something else?
>
> Xmas kicked my butt and money's tight right now. Will driving it further
> do damage to my car? I would imagine it would have an impact on gas
> mileage and tire life.
>
> Thanks in advance for any replies.
>
> Lee
>
> PS: Again, may not be relevant, but here's the history of my car:
>
> 20000 miles - steering rack had to be replaced (can't remember why).
> 35000 miles - CV joint fixed/replaced (loud cracking noises when turning
> to extremes).