Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <Xns9BFCC4B248F05tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle-
> 14F511.18394928042009@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>
> > In article <Xns9BFBD4B259210tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> > Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:
> >
> >> >> Toyota originally just barely broke even on the Prius (provided
> >> >> you didn't count development costs).
> >> >
> >> > I'm surprised that anyone still believes that myth.
> >>
> >> It happens to be true, sorry.
> >
> > So provide a reference to prove it.
>
>
>
>
> Your flinty-eyed skepticism has yielded success: I appear to be
> out-of-date.
>
> According to Forbes,
> "Toyota's Prius came out in 1997 and did not break even until just before
> the introduction of a second-generation car in model-year 2004."
>
> This from the article
> <http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/07/hybrids-cars-suvs-cx_dl_1011feat_ls.html>
>
> Except that now Toyota dealers can't give Priuses away, so the implied
> post-'04 profit has probably disappeared.

Will I be able to buy one now for say $13500? That's about all I'd pay
for one today.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learnHybrid Isn't worth.
 

Tegger wrote:
>

snip



> Hybrids are an awfully expensive way to save money on gas. They never
> made sense at all. You can tell they never made sense: Nobody's buying
> them any more.
>
> Roll back "safety" regulations back to what they were in 1988, and you
> could have another Civic HF: Better mileage than the Prius, at a /much/
> lower cost.



Which is the exact logic I apply to my owning ancient Civics only that
the year(s) are rolled back to 1980-83.

I can handle the "old school" engineering and ease of maintenance/repair
and not have to fess up with 'puters and other modern gadgets.

Besides that, parts as almost as cheap as dirt these days...

JT

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learnHybrid Isn't worth.
 

Clive wrote:

> In message <Xns9BFBD4B259210tegger@208.90.168.18>, Tegger
> <invalid@invalid.inv> writes
>
>> In any case, you would make your money back just about instantly with
>> the HF, and there was no horrendously expensive battery replacement
>> lurking ten years down the road. Making your money back with the Prius,
>> at today's gas prices, is an impossibility.
>
> Not in London were petrol is about £4:50 a gallon and it cost about £6 a
> day to drive in the city, a daily tax called the congestion charge which
> hybrid owners are exempt from.


Uh, that's why just over two hundred years ago, some people revolted...

JT

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <Xns9BFCC4B248F05tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:

>
> Your flinty-eyed skepticism has yielded success: I appear to be
> out-of-date.
>
> According to Forbes, "Toyota's Prius came out in 1997 and did not
> break even until just before the introduction of a second-generation
> car in model-year 2004."

five years out of date, and referring to the previous model, which is
nothing like the 04 through 09 model.

> Except that now Toyota dealers can't give Priuses away,

Got a cite for that? Other than the fact that the entire auto industry
is in the tank, I mean.

> so the implied post-'04 profit has probably disappeared.

Nothing implied about that profit. Furthermore, your conclusion does
not follow from the premise, regardless.

<http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...prius-sales-wi
ll-hit-100000-in-2009-toyota-says.html>

In these dismal economic times, no one likes to talk about annual
sales projections, but Bob Carter, group vice president and
general manager for Toyota Motor Sales USA, did just that at last
week's press launch for the 2010 Toyota Prius in California's Napa
Valley. Toyota expects to sell 100,000 examples of the 2010 Prius
from the time it goes on sale in May until the end of 2009.

Come 2010, the company hopes to return to its 2007 sales pace and
sell 180,000 Priuses. You'll recall that Prius sales fell 12.3
percent in 2008 (to 158,884) after a steep drop-off in demand in
the fourth quarter.

Yes, Prius sales have been down in the past few months, but that's most
likely because people are waiting for the 2010 model, due out next month.

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In message <oT5Kl.16958$941.8043@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> writes
>
>
>Clive wrote:
>
>> In message <Xns9BFBD4B259210tegger@208.90.168.18>, Tegger
>><invalid@invalid.inv> writes
>>
>>> In any case, you would make your money back just about instantly
>>>with
>>> the HF, and there was no horrendously expensive battery replacement
>>> lurking ten years down the road. Making your money back with the Prius,
>>> at today's gas prices, is an impossibility.
>> Not in London were petrol is about £4:50 a gallon and it cost about
>>£6 a day to drive in the city, a daily tax called the congestion
>>charge which hybrid owners are exempt from.
>Uh, that's why just over two hundred years ago, some people revolted...
>JT
I didn't know that the Toyota Prius and the London congestion charge
existed 200 years ago, I learn something new every day.
--
Clive

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-EE1773.19021229042009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In these dismal economic times, no one likes to talk about annual
> sales projections, but Bob Carter, group vice president and
> general manager for Toyota Motor Sales USA, did just that at last
> week's press launch for the 2010 Toyota Prius in California's Napa
> Valley. Toyota expects to sell 100,000 examples of the 2010 Prius
> from the time it goes on sale in May until the end of 2009.
>
> Come 2010, the company hopes to return to its 2007 sales pace and
> sell 180,000 Priuses. You'll recall that Prius sales fell 12.3
> percent in 2008 (to 158,884) after a steep drop-off in demand in
> the fourth quarter.
>
> Yes, Prius sales have been down in the past few months, but that's most
> likely because people are waiting for the 2010 model, due out next month.
>
I'm one of those. Went to toyota.com's build-your-own routine today to find
it still configures a 2009.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Clive" <Clive@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dhE8PrMWrQ+JFwPM@yewbank.demon.co.uk...
> I didn't know that the Toyota Prius and the London congestion charge
> existed 200 years ago, I learn something new every day.
> --
> Clive

He refers to our the revolution we fought over taxation without
representation. It must been have been a good way to raise money because we
sure do a lot of it ourselves today.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <49f90e1e$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
"Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:

> > Yes, Prius sales have been down in the past few months, but that's
> > most likely because people are waiting for the 2010 model, due out
> > next month.
> >
> I'm one of those.

I have to wait until September at the earliest, which is after I get a
major bill paid off.

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <49f90eba@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
"Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:

> > existed 200 years ago, I learn something new every day.
>
> He refers to our the revolution we fought over taxation without
> representation.

Yeah, that's what he meant, but how would London's taxation with
representation in the 21st century have any relationship to the
colonies' taxation without representation in the 18th century?

> It must been have been a good way to raise money because we sure do a
> lot of it ourselves today.

What taxation without representation do we have today?

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-2BBD90.20214129042009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <49f90e1e$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
> "Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:
>
>> > Yes, Prius sales have been down in the past few months, but that's
>> > most likely because people are waiting for the 2010 model, due out
>> > next month.
>> >
>> I'm one of those.
>
> I have to wait until September at the earliest, which is after I get a
> major bill paid off.
>
> --
> It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to
> America.

A couple of months ago I was comparing 2009 Prius prices found on the 'net
with what my area dealer offers. A dealer in Mesa had several units with
leather, nav, etc. for $3000.00 less than I'd have to pay for the same unit
where I live in MN. Maybe I should wait until next January, fly to AZ, soak
up some rays for a couple weeks, and drive one back.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-099992.20241029042009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <49f90eba@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
> "Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:
>
>> > existed 200 years ago, I learn something new every day.
>>
>> He refers to our the revolution we fought over taxation without
>> representation.
>
> Yeah, that's what he meant, but how would London's taxation with
> representation in the 21st century have any relationship to the
> colonies' taxation without representation in the 18th century?
>
>> It must been have been a good way to raise money because we sure do a
>> lot of it ourselves today.
>
> What taxation without representation do we have today?
>
Primarily sin taxes. People who don't participate in an activity taxing
people who do. Smokes come to mind but the the best example is property tax
on out-of-state property.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <49f91b74$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
"Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:

> A dealer in Mesa had several units with leather, nav, etc. for
> $3000.00 less than I'd have to pay for the same unit where I live in
> MN. Maybe I should wait until next January, fly to AZ, soak up some
> rays for a couple weeks, and drive one back.

If you do, maybe we can get together for a spot of tea or something.

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

In article <49f91cf5$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
"Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:

> > What taxation without representation do we have today?
> >
> Primarily sin taxes. People who don't participate in an activity
> taxing people who do.

That tax is passed by elected representatives, and signed by an elected
executive.

> Smokes come to mind but the the best example is property tax on
> out-of-state property.

I don't know of any state that taxes property in another state.

--
It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to America.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-65FD4A.20582329042009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <49f91b74$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
> "Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:
>
>> A dealer in Mesa had several units with leather, nav, etc. for
>> $3000.00 less than I'd have to pay for the same unit where I live in
>> MN. Maybe I should wait until next January, fly to AZ, soak up some
>> rays for a couple weeks, and drive one back.
>
> If you do, maybe we can get together for a spot of tea or something.
>
> --
> It's now time for healing, and for fixing the damage the GOP did to
> America.

That works. I'll let you know.

Re: Until you're involved with a FATAL accident first, you'll learn Hybrid Isn't worth.
 

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-E1D576.21002829042009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <49f91cf5$1@newsgate.x-privat.org>,
> "Was Istoben" <entshuldigen@oopla.com> wrote:
>
>> > What taxation without representation do we have today?
>> >
>> Primarily sin taxes. People who don't participate in an activity
>> taxing people who do.
>
> That tax is passed by elected representatives, and signed by an elected
> executive.
>
>> Smokes come to mind but the the best example is property tax on
>> out-of-state property.
>
> I don't know of any state that taxes property in another state.
>
I live in MN lakes country where about 2/3 of the property is seasonal.
Those of us who live here all year get a "homestead exemption" which reduces
our property tax by 50%. Moreover, as MN residents we get a percentage of
that remainder back from the state. Non resident's don't qualify. Neat,
huh? We make the rules, they maintain the roads. Is this a great world or
what?