Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Mumdnb1B3_PMYQ_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:W8Ckg.6619$o4.2731@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the consumer has
>> told the technician to perform no diagnosis but instead just replace the
>> brushes.
>>
>>
>> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The consumer has
>> to go find a technician who will do exactly as you describe.
>>
>>> Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs. re&re labor
>>> plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted from $180 for a reman to
>>> $350 for a factory new ND alt for my '87 Accord).
>>
>> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order the shop to
>> replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not 100% sure it is the
>> brushes.
>>
>> I am still not sure this is the most reliable route to go with an old
>> alternator, though. The bearings could go soon. The consumer gets to make
>> another trip. S/he does not necessarily know what's wrong. S/he asks the
>> shop to diagnose it. The shop techs start rolling their eyes: Coulda
>> saved you money and time if we'd just slapped a new alternator in the
>> first time.
>>
>> IOW, I still can't find reason to fault a shop for slapping a whole new
>> alternator in place in an older car with the original alternator.
>>
>> I hope you're not overlooking the difference in economic outlooks on this
>> matter for the do-it-yourselfer vs. the guy/gal that just wants a
>> reliable ride at a reasonable cost.
>>
> Right on the money, Elle. A shop that replaces only the brushes is risking
> having to hassle over who pays for a whole alternator when the inevitable
> callback happens (not on every one, but enough to hurt). Shops don't like
> to replace subassemblies when they can have a vendor assume the risks on
> full assemblies.
>
> Mike

Hi Mike, Elle and all
Yup I opted for the new alternator-=-even with low mileage, the age of the
car would have necessitated a new alt. sooner or later--and a new complete
alt kinda gave me piece of mind .
Thanks for everybody's input!
loner
>
>

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.

Re: update on emergency brake warning light
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.