the loner

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Mumdnb1B3_PMYQ_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:W8Ckg.6619$o4.2731@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the consumer has
>> told the technician to perform no diagnosis but instead just replace the
>> brushes.
>>
>>
>> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The consumer has
>> to go find a technician who will do exactly as you describe.
>>
>>> Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs. re&re labor
>>> plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted from $180 for a reman to
>>> $350 for a factory new ND alt for my '87 Accord).
>>
>> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order the shop to
>> replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not 100% sure it is the
>> brushes.
>>
>> I am still not sure this is the most reliable route to go with an old
>> alternator, though. The bearings could go soon. The consumer gets to make
>> another trip. S/he does not necessarily know what's wrong. S/he asks the
>> shop to diagnose it. The shop techs start rolling their eyes: Coulda
>> saved you money and time if we'd just slapped a new alternator in the
>> first time.
>>
>> IOW, I still can't find reason to fault a shop for slapping a whole new
>> alternator in place in an older car with the original alternator.
>>
>> I hope you're not overlooking the difference in economic outlooks on this
>> matter for the do-it-yourselfer vs. the guy/gal that just wants a
>> reliable ride at a reasonable cost.
>>
> Right on the money, Elle. A shop that replaces only the brushes is risking
> having to hassle over who pays for a whole alternator when the inevitable
> callback happens (not on every one, but enough to hurt). Shops don't like
> to replace subassemblies when they can have a vendor assume the risks on
> full assemblies.
>
> Mike

Hi Mike, Elle and all
Yup I opted for the new alternator-=-even with low mileage, the age of the
car would have necessitated a new alt. sooner or later--and a new complete
alt kinda gave me piece of mind .
Thanks for everybody's input!
loner
>
>

Matt Ion

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Matt Ion

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Matt Ion

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the alternator has brobably never been replaced. I
>>>>>>looked through my old invoices & couldn't find anyting,
>>>>>>but as I said, there's only 62,000 miles on it, so
>>>>>>probably the brushes haven't been replaced
>>>>>>I'll call them tomorrow am and ask about all this. If
>>>>>>they do say I need a new Alternator, do you think
>>>>>>that's a rip off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, not necessarily. ISTM the labor it takes to do just
>>>>>the brushes can approach the total cost of replacing the
>>>>>whole alternator.
>>>>
>>>>How do you figure? Labor to re&re the alternator either
>>>>is the same either way... new brushes are about $5 and
>>>>should take about 15 minutes to swap in...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking (1) the dealership for one will charge the
>>>book rate, which may assume the alternator has to be
>>>pulled off to replace the brushes; and (2) from reading
>>>here, not all brushes can be replaced with the alternator
>>>in place.
>>
>>Even so - the labor to take out one alternator and put in
>>a new one is exactly the same as the labor to remove the
>>alt and then put it back in with new brushes...
>
>
> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming the
> consumer has told the technician to perform no diagnosis but
> instead just replace the brushes.

YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:

"ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can approach the total
cost of replacing the whole alternator." (see five quote levels north of
here)

>>so the only difference there is the cost of the brushes
>>themselves and the labor to install them.
>>
>>If you get JUST the bare brushes and solder them into the
>>holder yourself (easy enough for me), it's $5 plus about
>>15-20 minutes' labor (in addition to the re&re); if you
>>get the complete brushes with holder, it's $20 plus 5-10
>>minutes to swap them into the alt.
>
>
> We're not talking about someone do-it-yourselfing here. The
> consumer has to go find a technician who will do exactly as
> you describe.

So if you figure $80/hr shop rate, swapping the brushes should be an
extra $20-$30 worth of labor in addition to re&re'ing the alt.

>>Either way, you're talking re&re labor plus maybe $40, vs.
>>re&re labor plus the cost of a new alt (I've been quoted
>>from $180 for a reman to $350 for a factory new ND alt for
>>my '87 Accord).
>
>
> Sure. It seems not a bad gamble for a consumer to just order
> the shop to replace the brushes, even if the consumer is not
> 100% sure it is the brushes.

Right, but YOU'RE the one who compared the cost of JUST replacing the
brushes to the cost of replacing the entire alternator.

Elle

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.

Elle

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.

Elle

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> If it is the brushes that are the problem, and assuming
>> the consumer has told the technician to perform no
>> diagnosis but instead just replace the brushes.
>
> YOU'RE the one talking about JUST replacing the brushes:
>
> "ISTM the labor it takes to do just the brushes can
> approach the total cost of replacing the whole
> alternator." (see five quote levels north of here)

You're right. I misspoke.