Dano58

On Jun 4, 1:52 am, googamooga <googamo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well if I had kept the engine they gave me it had a 100 day
> guarantee. Today I talked to the Manager on the phone and told him no
> one in the right mind would put in a 150000 mile on a better shaped
> car. He said he will talk to my insurance tomorrow. My insurance
> agreed to pay for a remanufactured engine so we'll see how it goes.
>
> Now you guys are scaring me, I thought remanufactured engines were
> good, some of them come with a real good warranty. errr so I have
> heard.

Well, 'used' and 'remanufactured' are two different things, in my
mind. The former is an engine pulled out of a car and (while maybe
checked out internally) popped right into another car. A
'remanufactured' engine is one that has been basically rebuilt - bored
out, if
needed, new internals (pistons, con rods, crank, cam(s), valves, etc)
and is basically a new engine, for all intents and purposes. Mileage
is, for all intents and purposes, zero. There is a big difference
between the two. You need to clarify what the insurance company is
paying
for, then you can go and get all crazy with the dealer for putting in
a used engine (if the ins co is paying for a reman) or a little crazy
if
they are paying for a used engine and the dealer dug up one with more
mileage than yours had....

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

jim beam

Dano58 wrote:
> On Jun 4, 1:52 am, googamooga <googamo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well if I had kept the engine they gave me it had a 100 day
>> guarantee. Today I talked to the Manager on the phone and told him no
>> one in the right mind would put in a 150000 mile on a better shaped
>> car. He said he will talk to my insurance tomorrow. My insurance
>> agreed to pay for a remanufactured engine so we'll see how it goes.
>>
>> Now you guys are scaring me, I thought remanufactured engines were
>> good, some of them come with a real good warranty. errr so I have
>> heard.
>
> Well, 'used' and 'remanufactured' are two different things, in my
> mind. The former is an engine pulled out of a car and (while maybe
> checked out internally) popped right into another car. A
> 'remanufactured' engine is one that has been basically rebuilt - bored
> out, if
> needed, new internals (pistons, con rods, crank, cam(s), valves, etc)
> and is basically a new engine, for all intents and purposes. Mileage
> is, for all intents and purposes, zero.

it's not quite that simple. first of all, the objective with a re-build
is to save money on replacement. unless too badly worn, practically
everything on your list is re-used except pistons, and maybe valves.
cranks are only replaced if cracked or too worn to be reground. cams
are frequently reground and reused too. con-rods are almost always reused.

so, what's the deal with all those re-used parts? fatigue and
accelerated wear. while parts are supposed to be checked for [fatigue]
cracking, cracks are very hard to detect in the nucleation stage, only
when they're well established do they become easy. a crank in
nucleation mode could easily be reused. that applies to the block, cam,
everything.

regarding wear, unless re-carburized [or re-nitrided], if a cam, crank,
or any other hardened part is reground, the thin casing of wear
resistant outer layer is partially removed. what's left, while
sometimes sufficient, often isn't. and testing is destructive, so you
can only sample, not test individual components.

bottom line, if you have a motor that typically lasts 300k miles, and
you get a used one with 30k on it, it's a much better deal than a
rebuilt motor whose fatigue history is indeterminate, and whose wear
resistance is definitely less that it would otherwise be. will it do
the mileage of the replacement oem engine - 270k? not likely!

google for the warranty you typically get on re-built engines. they are
remarkably short.


> There is a big difference
> between the two. You need to clarify what the insurance company is
> paying
> for, then you can go and get all crazy with the dealer for putting in
> a used engine (if the ins co is paying for a reman) or a little crazy
> if
> they are paying for a used engine and the dealer dug up one with more
> mileage than yours had....
>
> Dan D
> '07 Ody EX
> Central NJ USA

Dano58

On Jun 6, 1:40 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
> it's not quite that simple. first of all, the objective with a re-build
> is to save money on replacement. unless too badly worn, practically
> everything on your list is re-used except pistons, and maybe valves.
> cranks are only replaced if cracked or too worn to be reground. cams
> are frequently reground and reused too. con-rods are almost always reused.
>
> so, what's the deal with all those re-used parts? fatigue and
> accelerated wear. while parts are supposed to be checked for [fatigue]
> cracking, cracks are very hard to detect in the nucleation stage, only
> when they're well established do they become easy. a crank in
> nucleation mode could easily be reused. that applies to the block, cam,
> everything.
>
> regarding wear, unless re-carburized [or re-nitrided], if a cam, crank,
> or any other hardened part is reground, the thin casing of wear
> resistant outer layer is partially removed. what's left, while
> sometimes sufficient, often isn't. and testing is destructive, so you
> can only sample, not test individual components.
>
> bottom line, if you have a motor that typically lasts 300k miles, and
> you get a used one with 30k on it, it's a much better deal than a
> rebuilt motor whose fatigue history is indeterminate, and whose wear
> resistance is definitely less that it would otherwise be. will it do
> the mileage of the replacement oem engine - 270k? not likely!
>
Well, I never really said which one was better. Frankly, I think I
would rather have a slightly-used engine than one that was
remanufactured, simply because in the latter, as you point out, you
don't really know what was put back in. But that's my personal
opinion. Used engines are cheaper, too, although with the insurance
company paying, I guess I wouldn't care about that.

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

howard

"googamooga" <googamooga@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e3f5e6c-19ad-4789-bb08-e4ab39666462@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Ok few weeks ago I posted that my engine got hydrolocked. I took the
> car to my acura dealer and they were given the go ahead by my
> insurance to put in a used engine. A week later my car was ready for
> pick up, they told me the engine they put in had 40,000 miles on it.
> I was happy, so I drive the car home, on the way home the check engine
> light comes on, so I do a U turn back to the dealer. They give me a
> loaner car and few days later the receptionist calls me back to tell
> me the engine they put in actually had 150,000 miles on it. Naturally
> I was furious since my old engine only had 100,000 miles on it.
>
> My question is, is there any way to tell how many miles a used engine
> has? There has to be some kind of a paper trail that shows the true
> miles on the engine. I asked the dealer and they gave me this hand
> written note with the miles on it. I asked them for the receipt from
> the place where they purchased the used engine from but they said its
> not possible.

If you put a used engine in the car the dealer or insurance company most
likely bought it from a junkyard/recycler. Usually the bill for that motor
will have the VIN the motor came out of. That is, if it's a reputable
junkyard/recycler.
Ask the dealer if he has the VIN number. If you get that then do a VIN
background check such as Carfax or AutoCheck.
If you need a referral or place to get a remanufactured motor try Howard
Engineering, http://www.hecreman.com/
I'm sure your dealer is aware of them. They are one of the most reputable
engine/transmission rebuilders you'll find. They were THE source, a few
years back, when Honda did not have reman transmissions of their own. They
offer 3 year 36000 mile warranty and longer. They specialize in Honda/Acura
and from what I've heard use only OEM parts in their rebuild. Good luck.
Howard

Jim Yanik

"howard" <howardh@cybrstar.comnospam> wrote in
news:484aac07$0$20200$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

>
> "googamooga" <googamooga@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1e3f5e6c-19ad-4789-bb08-e4ab39666462@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com..
> .
>> Ok few weeks ago I posted that my engine got hydrolocked. I took the
>> car to my acura dealer and they were given the go ahead by my
>> insurance to put in a used engine. A week later my car was ready for
>> pick up, they told me the engine they put in had 40,000 miles on it.
>> I was happy, so I drive the car home, on the way home the check
>> engine light comes on, so I do a U turn back to the dealer. They
>> give me a loaner car and few days later the receptionist calls me
>> back to tell me the engine they put in actually had 150,000 miles on
>> it. Naturally I was furious since my old engine only had 100,000
>> miles on it.
>>
>> My question is, is there any way to tell how many miles a used engine
>> has? There has to be some kind of a paper trail that shows the true
>> miles on the engine. I asked the dealer and they gave me this hand
>> written note with the miles on it. I asked them for the receipt from
>> the place where they purchased the used engine from but they said its
>> not possible.
>
> If you put a used engine in the car the dealer or insurance company
> most likely bought it from a junkyard/recycler. Usually the bill for
> that motor will have the VIN the motor came out of. That is, if it's a
> reputable junkyard/recycler.
> Ask the dealer if he has the VIN number. If you get that then do a VIN
> background check such as Carfax or AutoCheck.
> If you need a referral or place to get a remanufactured motor try
> Howard Engineering, http://www.hecreman.com/
> I'm sure your dealer is aware of them. They are one of the most
> reputable engine/transmission rebuilders you'll find. They were THE
> source, a few years back, when Honda did not have reman transmissions
> of their own. They offer 3 year 36000 mile warranty and longer. They
> specialize in Honda/Acura and from what I've heard use only OEM parts
> in their rebuild. Good luck. Howard
>
>

interesting that a guy named Howard is recommending a company named Howard
Engineering....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

z

On Jun 6, 11:08 am, Dano58 <dan.dibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 6, 1:40 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > it's not quite that simple. first of all, the objective with a re-build
> > is to save money on replacement. unless too badly worn, practically
> > everything on your list is re-used except pistons, and maybe valves.
> > cranks are only replaced if cracked or too worn to be reground. cams
> > are frequently reground and reused too. con-rods are almost always reused.
>
> > so, what's the deal with all those re-used parts? fatigue and
> > accelerated wear. while parts are supposed to be checked for [fatigue]
> > cracking, cracks are very hard to detect in the nucleation stage, only
> > when they're well established do they become easy. a crank in
> > nucleation mode could easily be reused. that applies to the block, cam,
> > everything.
>
> > regarding wear, unless re-carburized [or re-nitrided], if a cam, crank,
> > or any other hardened part is reground, the thin casing of wear
> > resistant outer layer is partially removed. what's left, while
> > sometimes sufficient, often isn't. and testing is destructive, so you
> > can only sample, not test individual components.
>
> > bottom line, if you have a motor that typically lasts 300k miles, and
> > you get a used one with 30k on it, it's a much better deal than a
> > rebuilt motor whose fatigue history is indeterminate, and whose wear
> > resistance is definitely less that it would otherwise be. will it do
> > the mileage of the replacement oem engine - 270k? not likely!
>
> Well, I never really said which one was better. Frankly, I think I
> would rather have a slightly-used engine than one that was
> remanufactured, simply because in the latter, as you point out, you
> don't really know what was put back in. But that's my personal
> opinion. Used engines are cheaper, too, although with the insurance
> company paying, I guess I wouldn't care about that.
>
> Dan D
> '07 Ody EX
> Central NJ USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

also, factory does a real great job putting engines together.
rebuilder, maybe yes, maybe no.

z

On Jun 4, 12:43 pm, "Elle" <honda.lion...@spamnocox.net> wrote:
> I really think that mileage is very hard to ascertain. ISTM
> the best bet is to make sure the engine comes from Japan,
> where, as has been mentioned, certain laws require engines
> to come out long before their useful life in the U.S. has
> expired.
>
> Remember, even having some kind of certification of engine
> mileage can be misleading, since city driving produces low
> mileage but high hours on the engine. I would actually
> prefer lots of highway miles to lots of hours city driving.
> Highway miles are not as hard on an engine.
>
> Also, I am not so sure I would be unhappy with a 150k mile
> engine. Lots of Hondas make it to 300k miles, per reports
> here. These engines are tough! The tranny and body integrity
> may be bigger concerns.
>
> "googamooga" <googamo...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > Cool thanks for your input guys, I just got a voice mail
> > on my phone,
> > the manager is going to look for another used engine with
> > less miles.
> > Now how can I really tell if they actually did change the
> > engine? Is
> > there a serial number I can match on the receipt? If they
> > take too
> > long I will give that jsamotors.com site as a back up.- Hide quoted text-
>
> - Show quoted text -

gotta say however (admission against interest, since i obviously
thought used engine was the way to go, and still do):
got used japanese engine from nationally reasonably widely advertised
place. supposedly 60,000 miles.
engine came with no ECU despite phone conversations stressing that I
wanted ECU and would pay for ECU and promises to provide ECU. On the
other hand, wasn't charged for ECU.
Ditto for shift linkage.
Engine turned out to have **no oil pan gasket** just bead of silicone.
Needed new clutch. So I did a timing belt just to be sure.
VTEC solenoid leaks a quart of oil every week or two.
front motor mount bolts pulled out of engine after a couple of years.
not the rubber in the mount disintegrating as usual; the rubber was
fine, the bolts just vanished. i presume some combination of
looseness, unscrewing themselves, and too much strain on the rest of
them stripping the holes.

i know it sounds silly, but other than that it's been quite fine.

Elle

It's not in the least silly. This is the first report on a
used engine I have seen. More and more people are interested
in these engines, so your report is bound to be helpful.

"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote
snip, for brevity, report on used engine
> i know it sounds silly, but other than
> that it's been quite fine.