Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car
> with oil changed
> every 7,500.

At some point, more frequent changes add no further life to
the engine. That point may very well be around 3000 miles
per oil change (with a commensurate time limit).

I think there is no basis (data, common sense, or otherwise)
for saying an engine will last "much, much longer" the more
often one changes the oil.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

Elle wrote:
>
> "televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> > every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car
> > with oil changed
> > every 7,500.
>
> At some point, more frequent changes add no further life to
> the engine. That point may very well be around 3000 miles
> per oil change (with a commensurate time limit).
>
> I think there is no basis (data, common sense, or otherwise)
> for saying an engine will last "much, much longer" the more
> often one changes the oil.


I would agree.

In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

JT

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

Elle wrote:
>
> "televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> > every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car
> > with oil changed
> > every 7,500.
>
> At some point, more frequent changes add no further life to
> the engine. That point may very well be around 3000 miles
> per oil change (with a commensurate time limit).
>
> I think there is no basis (data, common sense, or otherwise)
> for saying an engine will last "much, much longer" the more
> often one changes the oil.


I would agree.

In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

JT

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

Elle wrote:
>
> "televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> > every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car
> > with oil changed
> > every 7,500.
>
> At some point, more frequent changes add no further life to
> the engine. That point may very well be around 3000 miles
> per oil change (with a commensurate time limit).
>
> I think there is no basis (data, common sense, or otherwise)
> for saying an engine will last "much, much longer" the more
> often one changes the oil.


I would agree.

In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

JT

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158513784.230767.83980@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Seth wrote:
>
>> You want to change your oil earlier than recommended, go ahead. My
>> entire
>> point in this thread has been that blanket advice without using all the
>> factors is bunk. And when people give advice that differs from others
>> they
>> will be challenged on it. You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500
>> and I won't care. When you recommend others do the same despite changes
>> in
>> modern engineering (i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have
>> better ways of predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that
>> advice.
>
> Not much of what I said has stuck with you.

Nope. That's cause I don't agree.

> No way would I ever
> recommend changing oil regularly at 1,500 miles; that is an inexcusable
> waste of oil and money. Maybe it's worth it if you drive your car once
> a year, or twenty hours per day. Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car with oil changed
> every 7,500. It's an issue of ethics; hopefully, no one is that
> desperate to become an enemy of the environment.

I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
there will be active debate on it.

> I welcome opposing opinions, it gets a good discussion going. So here:
>
> Engines are "better", yes; advances in technology allow tighter
> tolerances, hotter temperatures, and more complex moving parts without
> risk of failure. This puts even more strain on engine oil, and car
> manufacturers can do this because they know that the easily available
> motor oils on the market have improved and can handle this. But the
> only major improvement in engine oil is the quality/price of synthetic
> oil since its first appearance in the seventies; traditional oil
> companies have changed their additive packages (sometimes up to three
> times a year), but their base stock hasn't improved. In fact, most oil
> companies don't create their own stock, but buy it from other well
> established companies in bulk. Pennzoil buys stock from Mobil 1, for
> instance. Group IV and V stock is superior to anything on the market,
> but the *endurance* of the oil has still not been proven to last longer
> than dino oil. Thus, engines have become tougher on oil, and while
> non-synthetic oil has improved greatly in the area of extreme
> pressure/anti-wear additives, the advances in oil longevity are
> negligent! This is why most car companies have been suggesting the
> 3,750/5,000mi service interval since the eighties, and still do,
> regardless of using dino or synthetic.


Which cap companies are currently suggesting a 3750/5000 interval? I know
that it isn't the case on the '01 Accord, '02 Venture, '03 SRX and '06
Passat. Nor is it suggested on the '06 which is what started this thread.
So which manufacturers are? The only ones that are suggesting it are the
oil change places and we know what their motivation is.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158513784.230767.83980@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Seth wrote:
>
>> You want to change your oil earlier than recommended, go ahead. My
>> entire
>> point in this thread has been that blanket advice without using all the
>> factors is bunk. And when people give advice that differs from others
>> they
>> will be challenged on it. You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500
>> and I won't care. When you recommend others do the same despite changes
>> in
>> modern engineering (i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have
>> better ways of predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that
>> advice.
>
> Not much of what I said has stuck with you.

Nope. That's cause I don't agree.

> No way would I ever
> recommend changing oil regularly at 1,500 miles; that is an inexcusable
> waste of oil and money. Maybe it's worth it if you drive your car once
> a year, or twenty hours per day. Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car with oil changed
> every 7,500. It's an issue of ethics; hopefully, no one is that
> desperate to become an enemy of the environment.

I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
there will be active debate on it.

> I welcome opposing opinions, it gets a good discussion going. So here:
>
> Engines are "better", yes; advances in technology allow tighter
> tolerances, hotter temperatures, and more complex moving parts without
> risk of failure. This puts even more strain on engine oil, and car
> manufacturers can do this because they know that the easily available
> motor oils on the market have improved and can handle this. But the
> only major improvement in engine oil is the quality/price of synthetic
> oil since its first appearance in the seventies; traditional oil
> companies have changed their additive packages (sometimes up to three
> times a year), but their base stock hasn't improved. In fact, most oil
> companies don't create their own stock, but buy it from other well
> established companies in bulk. Pennzoil buys stock from Mobil 1, for
> instance. Group IV and V stock is superior to anything on the market,
> but the *endurance* of the oil has still not been proven to last longer
> than dino oil. Thus, engines have become tougher on oil, and while
> non-synthetic oil has improved greatly in the area of extreme
> pressure/anti-wear additives, the advances in oil longevity are
> negligent! This is why most car companies have been suggesting the
> 3,750/5,000mi service interval since the eighties, and still do,
> regardless of using dino or synthetic.


Which cap companies are currently suggesting a 3750/5000 interval? I know
that it isn't the case on the '01 Accord, '02 Venture, '03 SRX and '06
Passat. Nor is it suggested on the '06 which is what started this thread.
So which manufacturers are? The only ones that are suggesting it are the
oil change places and we know what their motivation is.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158513784.230767.83980@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Seth wrote:
>
>> You want to change your oil earlier than recommended, go ahead. My
>> entire
>> point in this thread has been that blanket advice without using all the
>> factors is bunk. And when people give advice that differs from others
>> they
>> will be challenged on it. You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500
>> and I won't care. When you recommend others do the same despite changes
>> in
>> modern engineering (i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have
>> better ways of predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that
>> advice.
>
> Not much of what I said has stuck with you.

Nope. That's cause I don't agree.

> No way would I ever
> recommend changing oil regularly at 1,500 miles; that is an inexcusable
> waste of oil and money. Maybe it's worth it if you drive your car once
> a year, or twenty hours per day. Granted, a car with it's oil changed
> every 500 miles will last much, much longer than a car with oil changed
> every 7,500. It's an issue of ethics; hopefully, no one is that
> desperate to become an enemy of the environment.

I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
there will be active debate on it.

> I welcome opposing opinions, it gets a good discussion going. So here:
>
> Engines are "better", yes; advances in technology allow tighter
> tolerances, hotter temperatures, and more complex moving parts without
> risk of failure. This puts even more strain on engine oil, and car
> manufacturers can do this because they know that the easily available
> motor oils on the market have improved and can handle this. But the
> only major improvement in engine oil is the quality/price of synthetic
> oil since its first appearance in the seventies; traditional oil
> companies have changed their additive packages (sometimes up to three
> times a year), but their base stock hasn't improved. In fact, most oil
> companies don't create their own stock, but buy it from other well
> established companies in bulk. Pennzoil buys stock from Mobil 1, for
> instance. Group IV and V stock is superior to anything on the market,
> but the *endurance* of the oil has still not been proven to last longer
> than dino oil. Thus, engines have become tougher on oil, and while
> non-synthetic oil has improved greatly in the area of extreme
> pressure/anti-wear additives, the advances in oil longevity are
> negligent! This is why most car companies have been suggesting the
> 3,750/5,000mi service interval since the eighties, and still do,
> regardless of using dino or synthetic.


Which cap companies are currently suggesting a 3750/5000 interval? I know
that it isn't the case on the '01 Accord, '02 Venture, '03 SRX and '06
Passat. Nor is it suggested on the '06 which is what started this thread.
So which manufacturers are? The only ones that are suggesting it are the
oil change places and we know what their motivation is.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to illustrate how oil
affects engine life. But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong. There is a DIRECT
relationship, though not stated through specific mileage numbers. There
was a contest in California decades ago about which organization could
put the most mileage on a car within one year. Not sure about the
specifics, but a Civic won with 1,000,000 miles. They changed the oil
every 1,000mi as one of the factors in ensuring a long life. I'm sure a
quick search will yield an article.

I can't stress this enough, go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com!

> I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
> use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
> there will be active debate on it.

"You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500 and I won't care. When
you recommend others do the same despite changes in modern engineering
(i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have better ways of
predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that advice."


Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
> for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Yes, I agree.

> Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
> miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

Agreed, though I feel the extra filter change isn't neccessary. This
entire discussion was sparked when Seth disagreed that 7,500mi OCIs
were too lengthy. He argued that the Oil Life Meter is entirely
accurate, so if it suggests 7,500, then the oil life meter is correct.
I suggested 5,000mi changes regardless of the OLM, and he argued that
the oil is capable of providing adequate protection until the meter
says it can't.

> I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
> lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
> considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

I use Specialty Formulations' MTL-P synthetic transmission fluid in my
6spd Civic Si. Aside from the peace of mind, I have noticed a true
improvement in shift quality; the infamous notchiness in 3rd gear is
gone! And no, this is not my imagination, many people have noted shift
feel improvement after switching to ANY synthetic tranny fluid in the
'06 Si. The MTL-P is very similar to Honda MTF viscosity (11.5cSt), but
the synth stock/additive package is way superior. A VOA shows Honda MTF
to be similar to engine oil, with an increased calcium content... But
I'm curious to see what Acura's newly reformulated tranny fluid is all
about.

And again, I must disagree; synthetic engine oil does provide great
advantages over dino oil. It may not be worth the extra money for, say,
a family-carrying Camry, but for high-rev, high performance
applications, there is a significant improvement. Synthetic oil not
only coats better and retains viscosity at extreme temps, but its
cleaning abilities are well documented. The synthetic advantage may be
greater for tranny fluid, seeing as how much more stress is exerted on
transmission components, but synth motor oil is worth every penny.

Of course, this is all my opinion.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to illustrate how oil
affects engine life. But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong. There is a DIRECT
relationship, though not stated through specific mileage numbers. There
was a contest in California decades ago about which organization could
put the most mileage on a car within one year. Not sure about the
specifics, but a Civic won with 1,000,000 miles. They changed the oil
every 1,000mi as one of the factors in ensuring a long life. I'm sure a
quick search will yield an article.

I can't stress this enough, go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com!

> I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
> use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
> there will be active debate on it.

"You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500 and I won't care. When
you recommend others do the same despite changes in modern engineering
(i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have better ways of
predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that advice."


Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
> for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Yes, I agree.

> Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
> miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

Agreed, though I feel the extra filter change isn't neccessary. This
entire discussion was sparked when Seth disagreed that 7,500mi OCIs
were too lengthy. He argued that the Oil Life Meter is entirely
accurate, so if it suggests 7,500, then the oil life meter is correct.
I suggested 5,000mi changes regardless of the OLM, and he argued that
the oil is capable of providing adequate protection until the meter
says it can't.

> I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
> lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
> considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

I use Specialty Formulations' MTL-P synthetic transmission fluid in my
6spd Civic Si. Aside from the peace of mind, I have noticed a true
improvement in shift quality; the infamous notchiness in 3rd gear is
gone! And no, this is not my imagination, many people have noted shift
feel improvement after switching to ANY synthetic tranny fluid in the
'06 Si. The MTL-P is very similar to Honda MTF viscosity (11.5cSt), but
the synth stock/additive package is way superior. A VOA shows Honda MTF
to be similar to engine oil, with an increased calcium content... But
I'm curious to see what Acura's newly reformulated tranny fluid is all
about.

And again, I must disagree; synthetic engine oil does provide great
advantages over dino oil. It may not be worth the extra money for, say,
a family-carrying Camry, but for high-rev, high performance
applications, there is a significant improvement. Synthetic oil not
only coats better and retains viscosity at extreme temps, but its
cleaning abilities are well documented. The synthetic advantage may be
greater for tranny fluid, seeing as how much more stress is exerted on
transmission components, but synth motor oil is worth every penny.

Of course, this is all my opinion.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to illustrate how oil
affects engine life. But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong. There is a DIRECT
relationship, though not stated through specific mileage numbers. There
was a contest in California decades ago about which organization could
put the most mileage on a car within one year. Not sure about the
specifics, but a Civic won with 1,000,000 miles. They changed the oil
every 1,000mi as one of the factors in ensuring a long life. I'm sure a
quick search will yield an article.

I can't stress this enough, go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com!

> I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval you
> use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open forum,
> there will be active debate on it.

"You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500 and I won't care. When
you recommend others do the same despite changes in modern engineering
(i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have better ways of
predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that advice."


Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> In fact, a change every 2,500 miles including the filter will suffice
> for even the most poorly rated motor oil.

Yes, I agree.

> Use of Castrol or Valvoline dino oil should easily be good for 5,000
> miles with maybe an filter change half way in between.

Agreed, though I feel the extra filter change isn't neccessary. This
entire discussion was sparked when Seth disagreed that 7,500mi OCIs
were too lengthy. He argued that the Oil Life Meter is entirely
accurate, so if it suggests 7,500, then the oil life meter is correct.
I suggested 5,000mi changes regardless of the OLM, and he argued that
the oil is capable of providing adequate protection until the meter
says it can't.

> I don't really see a great advantage with synthetics for engine
> lubrication but in transmissions/differentials, they can make a
> considerable difference in performance and extended length of service life.

I use Specialty Formulations' MTL-P synthetic transmission fluid in my
6spd Civic Si. Aside from the peace of mind, I have noticed a true
improvement in shift quality; the infamous notchiness in 3rd gear is
gone! And no, this is not my imagination, many people have noted shift
feel improvement after switching to ANY synthetic tranny fluid in the
'06 Si. The MTL-P is very similar to Honda MTF viscosity (11.5cSt), but
the synth stock/additive package is way superior. A VOA shows Honda MTF
to be similar to engine oil, with an increased calcium content... But
I'm curious to see what Acura's newly reformulated tranny fluid is all
about.

And again, I must disagree; synthetic engine oil does provide great
advantages over dino oil. It may not be worth the extra money for, say,
a family-carrying Camry, but for high-rev, high performance
applications, there is a significant improvement. Synthetic oil not
only coats better and retains viscosity at extreme temps, but its
cleaning abilities are well documented. The synthetic advantage may be
greater for tranny fluid, seeing as how much more stress is exerted on
transmission components, but synth motor oil is worth every penny.

Of course, this is all my opinion.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to
> illustrate how oil
> affects engine life.

Sorry, I do not buy the proposal that even a 500 mile
interval is necessarily superior to a 7500 mile interval.

> But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
> change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong.

That's not what I said.

You have to read carefully. You have to write even more
carefully.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to
> illustrate how oil
> affects engine life.

Sorry, I do not buy the proposal that even a 500 mile
interval is necessarily superior to a 7500 mile interval.

> But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
> change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong.

That's not what I said.

You have to read carefully. You have to write even more
carefully.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote
> The 500mi vs. 7,500mi OCI was an extreme example to
> illustrate how oil
> affects engine life.

Sorry, I do not buy the proposal that even a 500 mile
interval is necessarily superior to a 7500 mile interval.

> But to whoever said there's no data relating oil
> change intervals to engine longevity, you're wrong.

That's not what I said.

You have to read carefully. You have to write even more
carefully.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158535419.462415.87510@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
>> I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval
>> you
>> use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open
>> forum,
>> there will be active debate on it.
>
> "You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500 and I won't care. When
> you recommend others do the same despite changes in modern engineering
> (i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have better ways of
> predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that advice."

Yup, no where in there did I sate you said it. Reading comprehension is not
primary to you I see.

Re: What factors go into the oil life indicator: 2006 Civic
 

"televascular" <televascular@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158535419.462415.87510@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
>> I never said you stated it. I said if you did state that's the interval
>> you
>> use, I don't care. But when you post that others should in an open
>> forum,
>> there will be active debate on it.
>
> "You could go ahead and change your oil at 1500 and I won't care. When
> you recommend others do the same despite changes in modern engineering
> (i.e. engines are better, oil is better and we have better ways of
> predicting it's condition), someone will challenge that advice."

Yup, no where in there did I sate you said it. Reading comprehension is not
primary to you I see.