bristle

My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.

A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to take
the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt with.

As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred to
take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more distant
dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that service, 2
new front tyres were advised and fitted.

Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
weeks to cover 500 miles or so.

Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!) but
feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
exactly what.

Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <ullll55pfb6n5b38fg5fghoqarp55u0jjh@4ax.com>, bristle wrote:

> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!) but
> feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
> exactly what.

Were you damaged in any way? If so, you deserve to be made whole.

Otherwise, no, there's no recourse for your to pursue.

And simply don't go back to that place.

News

bristle wrote:

<snippage>

> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>
> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?

How could you not notice three missing lug nuts?

Don't want to venture whether you've ever checked tire pressures.

What else don't you know?

Mark

"News" <News@Groups.Name> wrote in message
news:lYmdnbcEOZrHZcfWnZ2dnUVZ_jFi4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> bristle wrote:
>
> <snippage>
>
>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
>> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
>> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
>> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
>> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>
>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>
> How could you not notice three missing lug nuts?
>
> Don't want to venture whether you've ever checked tire pressures.
>
> What else don't you know?


Boy I agree! The statement "with no other symptoms affecting the driving"
just doesn't hold up - it should have driven like a wheel was about to fall
off! Shaky steering at best, pulling and difficulties making turns more
than likely! And visually it should have been fairly obvious the wheel
could not have even looked straight. I guess once the assumption was made
that the noise was coming from the rear, no thought was given to a more
complete visual inspection.

jim beam

On 01/23/2010 03:18 AM, bristle wrote:
> My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
> service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.
>
> A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
> the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
> We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
> there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to take
> the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt with.
>
> As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred to
> take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more distant
> dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that service, 2
> new front tyres were advised and fitted.
>
> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>
> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!) but
> feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
> exactly what.
>
> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?

legally, you should check the service order you signed - it'll almost
certainly have a disclaimer on there about it being your responsibility
to check lug nut tightness after a few miles. if you signed that order
and didn't act accordingly, you're going to have a hard time.

additionally, there is a good chance the wheel stud that held was
over-stressed and is now likely to fatigue. there will almost certainly
be visible damage also. even though they'll be able to defend
themselves legally, you could nevertheless go back and ask this place to
replace the studs because of the damage caused. if you ask reasonably
and promise to take no further action, they probably will.

then never go back. and buy yourself a cheapo torque wrench and check
this stuff each time you go in for wheel service.

E. Meyer

On 1/23/10 5:18 AM, in article ullll55pfb6n5b38fg5fghoqarp55u0jjh@4ax.com,
"bristle" <bristle> wrote:

> My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
> service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.
>
> A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
> the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
> We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
> there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to take
> the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt with.
>
> As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred to
> take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more distant
> dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that service, 2
> new front tyres were advised and fitted.
>
> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>
> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!) but
> feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
> exactly what.
>
> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>
>
>
This happened to me once with an Oldsmobile. The service guy loosely
installed the lug nuts, then got distracted with something else and never
came back with the torque wrench to finish the job. It didn't handle any
differently from normal until about two miles down the road when the
handling got loose and the knocking started pretty much at the same time. I
didn't lose any but in that short distance several of them were nearly all
the way off.

If there is any damage to the lugs you should be able to make the offending
shop replace them & of course, they owe you the lost nuts. Other than that,
you don't really have any recourse.

Jim Yanik

"E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
news:C780BF7C.165C4%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:

> On 1/23/10 5:18 AM, in article
> ullll55pfb6n5b38fg5fghoqarp55u0jjh@4ax.com, "bristle" <bristle> wrote:
>
>> My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
>> service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.
>>
>> A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
>> the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
>> We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
>> there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to
>> take the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt
>> with.
>>
>> As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred
>> to take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more
>> distant dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that
>> service, 2 new front tyres were advised and fitted.
>>
>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying
>> out the service had obviously been careless since the offside front
>> wheel had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that
>> she was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last
>> few weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>
>> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!)
>> but feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
>> exactly what.
>>
>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>>
>>
>>
> This happened to me once with an Oldsmobile. The service guy loosely
> installed the lug nuts, then got distracted with something else and
> never came back with the torque wrench to finish the job. It didn't
> handle any differently from normal until about two miles down the road
> when the handling got loose and the knocking started pretty much at
> the same time. I didn't lose any but in that short distance several
> of them were nearly all the way off.
>
> If there is any damage to the lugs you should be able to make the
> offending shop replace them & of course, they owe you the lost nuts.
> Other than that, you don't really have any recourse.
>
>

There seems to be some question as to -how long a period elapsed- between
the "last service" and the loose and missing lug nuts.

as another person posted, the owner/operator should have noticed missing
lug nuts while doing tire pressure checks.

Or when washing their car.

Now,I once forgot to tighten lug nuts on a front wheel,and it was not long
before I noticed they had loosened and the wheel was wobbling.
Less than a day,in fact. I was lucky,I didn't lose any of the nuts,or
damage the studs.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

jim beam

On 01/23/2010 03:38 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> "E. Meyer"<e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:C780BF7C.165C4%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
>> On 1/23/10 5:18 AM, in article
>> ullll55pfb6n5b38fg5fghoqarp55u0jjh@4ax.com, "bristle"<bristle> wrote:
>>
>>> My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
>>> service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.
>>>
>>> A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
>>> the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
>>> We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
>>> there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to
>>> take the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt
>>> with.
>>>
>>> As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred
>>> to take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more
>>> distant dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that
>>> service, 2 new front tyres were advised and fitted.
>>>
>>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying
>>> out the service had obviously been careless since the offside front
>>> wheel had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that
>>> she was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last
>>> few weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>>
>>> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!)
>>> but feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
>>> exactly what.
>>>
>>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> This happened to me once with an Oldsmobile. The service guy loosely
>> installed the lug nuts, then got distracted with something else and
>> never came back with the torque wrench to finish the job. It didn't
>> handle any differently from normal until about two miles down the road
>> when the handling got loose and the knocking started pretty much at
>> the same time. I didn't lose any but in that short distance several
>> of them were nearly all the way off.
>>
>> If there is any damage to the lugs you should be able to make the
>> offending shop replace them& of course, they owe you the lost nuts.
>> Other than that, you don't really have any recourse.
>>
>>
>
> There seems to be some question as to -how long a period elapsed- between
> the "last service" and the loose and missing lug nuts.
>
> as another person posted, the owner/operator should have noticed missing
> lug nuts while doing tire pressure checks.
>
> Or when washing their car.
>
> Now,I once forgot to tighten lug nuts on a front wheel,and it was not long
> before I noticed they had loosened and the wheel was wobbling.
> Less than a day,in fact. I was lucky,I didn't lose any of the nuts,or
> damage the studs.
>
>

you should have just cranked up the stereo, loaded up your friends, and
driven to t.j. that would have gotten rid of a few for you. like the op.

bristle

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:23:07 -0500, News <News@Groups.Name> wrote:

>bristle wrote:
>
><snippage>
>
>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
>> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
>> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
>> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
>> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>
>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>
>How could you not notice three missing lug nuts?

My skill-set and diagnostic flair lie elsewhere.
>
>Don't want to venture whether you've ever checked tire pressures.

And I wouldn't dream of asking if you're still beating your wife.
>
>What else don't you know?

I don't know what you might have suffered in your formative years
which could have so crippled you socially that you feel the need to
elevate yourself by trying to belittle others.

I don't know, and I don't care.

bristle

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:30:43 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>Boy I agree! The statement "with no other symptoms affecting the driving"
>just doesn't hold up

And yet it is exactly as I told you. In fact at 70mph on the motorway
the knocking sound was barely audible over the road and engine noise.
Drive was smooth.

But if it helps you through your day to call me a liar then be my
guest.

bristle

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:00:12 -0600, "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net>
wrote:

>On 1/23/10 5:18 AM, in article ullll55pfb6n5b38fg5fghoqarp55u0jjh@4ax.com,
>"bristle" <bristle> wrote:
>
>> My partner has recently had a Honda car serviced under a 2-year free
>> service deal on an ex-demo (3,500m) car she bought 18 months ago.
>>
>> A couple of days ago we heard a knocking sound seeming to come from
>> the rear of the car but with no other symptoms affecting the driving.
>> We are both as good as clueless with cars so other than making sure
>> there wasn't a stone lodged in any of the tyres it was decided to take
>> the car into a main agent this morning to get the problem dealt with.
>>
>> As it turns out, we have moved since the car purchase and preferred to
>> take the car into a local Honda dealer rather than the more distant
>> dealer who carried out the last service. As part of that service, 2
>> new front tyres were advised and fitted.
>>
>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
>> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
>> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
>> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
>> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>
>> Obviously we are relieved to be alive (as are all her passengers!) but
>> feel that we should seek some sort of recourse while being unsure
>> exactly what.
>>
>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>>
>>
>>
>This happened to me once with an Oldsmobile. The service guy loosely
>installed the lug nuts, then got distracted with something else and never
>came back with the torque wrench to finish the job. It didn't handle any
>differently from normal until about two miles down the road when the
>handling got loose and the knocking started pretty much at the same time. I
>didn't lose any but in that short distance several of them were nearly all
>the way off.
>
>If there is any damage to the lugs you should be able to make the offending
>shop replace them & of course, they owe you the lost nuts. Other than that,
>you don't really have any recourse.


Beyond our initial excitement this is how we're seeing it too. There's
no reported lug damage according to the 2nd garage. We've been
advised by them to soundly upbraid the garage where the service was
carried out. In their words, it would be a "serious disciplinary
matter".

We'll be going out of our way to embarrass them.


Thanks for your civil and helpful response.

bristle

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:38:48 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>
>There seems to be some question as to -how long a period elapsed- between
>the "last service" and the loose and missing lug nuts.

as per my original post: "recently".
>
>as another person posted, the owner/operator should have noticed missing
>lug nuts while doing tire pressure checks.

No, the owner of the car would not have checked pressure in the brief
interim.
>
>Or when washing their car.

Maybe you've recently enjoyed fresh spring breezes? Here, slush rain
and snow discouraged 'car washing'.

>
>Now,I once forgot to tighten lug nuts on a front wheel,and it was not long
>before I noticed they had loosened and the wheel was wobbling.
>Less than a day,in fact. I was lucky,I didn't lose any of the nuts,or
>damage the studs.

Yes, I imagine if she'd done the job herself (the tyre replacement)
then she might have linked her own questionable competence to a rapid
diagnosis.

bristle

My thanks to all (save a couple of posts from the usual and expected
usenet dysfunctionals) for their consensus view.


Adieu

News

bristle wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:23:07 -0500, News <News@Groups.Name> wrote:
>
>> bristle wrote:
>>
>> <snippage>
>>
>>> Now just returned from the local Honda with the problem (knocking)
>>> speedily sorted. They informed my partner that the agent carrying out
>>> the service had obviously been careless since the offside front wheel
>>> had only one nut in place, itself loose - 3 missing - and that she
>>> was probably lucky to be alive having used the car over the last few
>>> weeks to cover 500 miles or so.
>>>
>>> Would anyone have any ideas or insight to share on this?
>> How could you not notice three missing lug nuts?
>
> My skill-set and diagnostic flair lie elsewhere.
>> Don't want to venture whether you've ever checked tire pressures.
>
> And I wouldn't dream of asking if you're still beating your wife.
>> What else don't you know?
>
> I don't know what you might have suffered in your formative years
> which could have so crippled you socially that you feel the need to
> elevate yourself by trying to belittle others.
>
> I don't know, and I don't care.
>
>


Have a great, shorter than necessary rest of your life, ignoramus.

Brian Smith

On 1/24/2010 5:46 AM, bristle wrote:
>
> My skill-set and diagnostic flair lie elsewhere.

I hope that you have enough income to have a mechanic on staff full
time. Your ignorance in regards to safety is going to kill someone
(hopefully just yourself and not other innocent motorists or pedestrians).

> And I wouldn't dream of asking if you're still beating your wife.

Ignorance, I see was the correct word to use in regards to your outlook
on life.

> I don't know what you might have suffered in your formative years
> which could have so crippled you socially that you feel the need to
> elevate yourself by trying to belittle others.

Pot, let me introduce you to the kettle.

> I don't know, and I don't care.

That, it appears is the main issue here. You should seek professional
help with your issues.