Elmo P. Shagnasty

In article <1168433847.109362.36020@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups. com>,
"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:

> I suspect that Honda hedged its bets a bit and isn't producing tons of
> them, as they have done in the past with other intros of new models
> ('big' Odyssey,

Are you kidding?

The big Odyssey realized FIVE YEARS of waiting lists and full list price
plus, due to demand--because they didn't make enough of them, and
couldn't.

That Guy

"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168433847.109362.36020@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
> That Guy wrote:
>> The wife and I were looking at getting her a new car and she was
>> interested
>> in the Toyota Matrix, but then we decided to get a quote on the Fit.
>> Right
>> away I found three things that surprised me:
>>
>> 1. The Fit is selling at full list price. No deals whatsoever.
>> 2. The Fit is sold out and have been pre-ordered until summer (people are
>> reserving them now knowing they won't be able to get the car until
>> summer.)
>> 3. The dealers (at least in my area) don't even have a demo you can test
>> drive, they've sold them all.
>>
>> Why is there such a buying frenzy over a car you can't even see at the
>> dealership, let alone test drive, before you buy it? I looked up some of
>> the stats but didn't notice anything that stood out about the car.
>
> It's gotten rave reviews in the enthusiast car mags for it's (relative)
> performance and flexibility of interior configurations. Being a Honda,
> it has a reputation for quality and has good features for it's class.
> The Nissan Versa has also gotten good reviews but doesn't handle quite
> as well as the Fit, according to the press.


Wow, according to Car and Driver,

"the Fit that ran away with our econocar comparo last year ["Cheap Skates,"
C/D, May 2006] posted a lane-change [measurement of handling ability]
number - 71.4 mph - that edges the best run by the Ferrari F430 Spider F1 we
tested last June ["Divine Wind"]."

That's pretty damned impressive right there.

That Guy

"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168433847.109362.36020@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
> That Guy wrote:
>> The wife and I were looking at getting her a new car and she was
>> interested
>> in the Toyota Matrix, but then we decided to get a quote on the Fit.
>> Right
>> away I found three things that surprised me:
>>
>> 1. The Fit is selling at full list price. No deals whatsoever.
>> 2. The Fit is sold out and have been pre-ordered until summer (people are
>> reserving them now knowing they won't be able to get the car until
>> summer.)
>> 3. The dealers (at least in my area) don't even have a demo you can test
>> drive, they've sold them all.
>>
>> Why is there such a buying frenzy over a car you can't even see at the
>> dealership, let alone test drive, before you buy it? I looked up some of
>> the stats but didn't notice anything that stood out about the car.
>
> It's gotten rave reviews in the enthusiast car mags for it's (relative)
> performance and flexibility of interior configurations. Being a Honda,
> it has a reputation for quality and has good features for it's class.
> The Nissan Versa has also gotten good reviews but doesn't handle quite
> as well as the Fit, according to the press.


Wow, according to Car and Driver,

"the Fit that ran away with our econocar comparo last year ["Cheap Skates,"
C/D, May 2006] posted a lane-change [measurement of handling ability]
number - 71.4 mph - that edges the best run by the Ferrari F430 Spider F1 we
tested last June ["Divine Wind"]."

That's pretty damned impressive right there.

That Guy

"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168433847.109362.36020@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
> That Guy wrote:
>> The wife and I were looking at getting her a new car and she was
>> interested
>> in the Toyota Matrix, but then we decided to get a quote on the Fit.
>> Right
>> away I found three things that surprised me:
>>
>> 1. The Fit is selling at full list price. No deals whatsoever.
>> 2. The Fit is sold out and have been pre-ordered until summer (people are
>> reserving them now knowing they won't be able to get the car until
>> summer.)
>> 3. The dealers (at least in my area) don't even have a demo you can test
>> drive, they've sold them all.
>>
>> Why is there such a buying frenzy over a car you can't even see at the
>> dealership, let alone test drive, before you buy it? I looked up some of
>> the stats but didn't notice anything that stood out about the car.
>
> It's gotten rave reviews in the enthusiast car mags for it's (relative)
> performance and flexibility of interior configurations. Being a Honda,
> it has a reputation for quality and has good features for it's class.
> The Nissan Versa has also gotten good reviews but doesn't handle quite
> as well as the Fit, according to the press.


Wow, according to Car and Driver,

"the Fit that ran away with our econocar comparo last year ["Cheap Skates,"
C/D, May 2006] posted a lane-change [measurement of handling ability]
number - 71.4 mph - that edges the best run by the Ferrari F430 Spider F1 we
tested last June ["Divine Wind"]."

That's pretty damned impressive right there.

That Guy

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40.

Huh? According to autos.msn.com, they are the same:

Standard Engine
Fit: 1.5L 109 hp I4
Civic: 1.8L 140 hp I4

Standard Transmission
Fit: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive
Civic: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive

Horsepower
Fit: 109 @ 5800 RPM
Civic: 140 @ 6300 RPM

Fuel Economy (MPG) (city/highway)
Fit: 33 / 38
Civic: 30 / 38

Also, the Civic DX Coupe is only about a hundred and fifteen pounds heavier
than the Fit Sport, with the Fit at 2471 lbs and the Civic at 2586.

> This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?

First, 200 lbs is not that big a difference in weight, only about 8 percent;
and as configured above it's closer to 5 percent. That difference can be
made up for with different tires very easily (some tires have substantially
lower rolling resistance than others) or improves aerodynamics. Judging by
the Fit's handling, I'd say the tire factor is geared toward handling rather
than fuel economy.
Second, having a *slightly* larger engine does not necessarily mean you're
using more gas. If the engines are very well designed, a slightly larger
engine should use about the same amount of fuel to do the same amount of
work as a smaller engine. Since the cars are nearly the same weight, under
normal driving it should take about the same amount of horsepower (and fuel)
to move them.

Now, a substantially larger engine will usually be less efficient than a
small engine when producing small amounts of horsepower, especially if it is
tuned for performance rather than economy. That's why sport cars of the
same weight as those two use so much more gas just driving around town.

That Guy

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40.

Huh? According to autos.msn.com, they are the same:

Standard Engine
Fit: 1.5L 109 hp I4
Civic: 1.8L 140 hp I4

Standard Transmission
Fit: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive
Civic: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive

Horsepower
Fit: 109 @ 5800 RPM
Civic: 140 @ 6300 RPM

Fuel Economy (MPG) (city/highway)
Fit: 33 / 38
Civic: 30 / 38

Also, the Civic DX Coupe is only about a hundred and fifteen pounds heavier
than the Fit Sport, with the Fit at 2471 lbs and the Civic at 2586.

> This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?

First, 200 lbs is not that big a difference in weight, only about 8 percent;
and as configured above it's closer to 5 percent. That difference can be
made up for with different tires very easily (some tires have substantially
lower rolling resistance than others) or improves aerodynamics. Judging by
the Fit's handling, I'd say the tire factor is geared toward handling rather
than fuel economy.
Second, having a *slightly* larger engine does not necessarily mean you're
using more gas. If the engines are very well designed, a slightly larger
engine should use about the same amount of fuel to do the same amount of
work as a smaller engine. Since the cars are nearly the same weight, under
normal driving it should take about the same amount of horsepower (and fuel)
to move them.

Now, a substantially larger engine will usually be less efficient than a
small engine when producing small amounts of horsepower, especially if it is
tuned for performance rather than economy. That's why sport cars of the
same weight as those two use so much more gas just driving around town.

That Guy

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40.

Huh? According to autos.msn.com, they are the same:

Standard Engine
Fit: 1.5L 109 hp I4
Civic: 1.8L 140 hp I4

Standard Transmission
Fit: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive
Civic: 5-Speed Manual Overdrive

Horsepower
Fit: 109 @ 5800 RPM
Civic: 140 @ 6300 RPM

Fuel Economy (MPG) (city/highway)
Fit: 33 / 38
Civic: 30 / 38

Also, the Civic DX Coupe is only about a hundred and fifteen pounds heavier
than the Fit Sport, with the Fit at 2471 lbs and the Civic at 2586.

> This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?

First, 200 lbs is not that big a difference in weight, only about 8 percent;
and as configured above it's closer to 5 percent. That difference can be
made up for with different tires very easily (some tires have substantially
lower rolling resistance than others) or improves aerodynamics. Judging by
the Fit's handling, I'd say the tire factor is geared toward handling rather
than fuel economy.
Second, having a *slightly* larger engine does not necessarily mean you're
using more gas. If the engines are very well designed, a slightly larger
engine should use about the same amount of fuel to do the same amount of
work as a smaller engine. Since the cars are nearly the same weight, under
normal driving it should take about the same amount of horsepower (and fuel)
to move them.

Now, a substantially larger engine will usually be less efficient than a
small engine when producing small amounts of horsepower, especially if it is
tuned for performance rather than economy. That's why sport cars of the
same weight as those two use so much more gas just driving around town.

tanukiki

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40. This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?
>
>> 4/Fit (at least sport model) has some good features for price class
>
> ok
>
>> 5/People are not always the most logical (I would never buy a car without
>> test driving it)
>
> definite yes. This is similar to when the Odyssey first came out. They
> were selling for list or above, there were absolutely none on the lots,
> so everyone was ordering without test driving first. But then again,
> considering that people will pay 5x MSRP for a video game system just
> to have it a month before everyone else, it's not surprising.
>

Like I said, it was my guesses on the matter. As for the fuel efficiency, I
think once you get in the 30's for city and high 30's or better for hwy,
most people are happy and aren't going to be picky about a mpg or 2 between
2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
a lot of people these days....

tanukiki

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40. This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?
>
>> 4/Fit (at least sport model) has some good features for price class
>
> ok
>
>> 5/People are not always the most logical (I would never buy a car without
>> test driving it)
>
> definite yes. This is similar to when the Odyssey first came out. They
> were selling for list or above, there were absolutely none on the lots,
> so everyone was ordering without test driving first. But then again,
> considering that people will pay 5x MSRP for a video game system just
> to have it a month before everyone else, it's not surprising.
>

Like I said, it was my guesses on the matter. As for the fuel efficiency, I
think once you get in the 30's for city and high 30's or better for hwy,
most people are happy and aren't going to be picky about a mpg or 2 between
2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
a lot of people these days....

tanukiki

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40. This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?
>
>> 4/Fit (at least sport model) has some good features for price class
>
> ok
>
>> 5/People are not always the most logical (I would never buy a car without
>> test driving it)
>
> definite yes. This is similar to when the Odyssey first came out. They
> were selling for list or above, there were absolutely none on the lots,
> so everyone was ordering without test driving first. But then again,
> considering that people will pay 5x MSRP for a video game system just
> to have it a month before everyone else, it's not surprising.
>

Like I said, it was my guesses on the matter. As for the fuel efficiency, I
think once you get in the 30's for city and high 30's or better for hwy,
most people are happy and aren't going to be picky about a mpg or 2 between
2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
a lot of people these days....

tanukiki

"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote in message
news:1168422140.590254.259780@77g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> tanukiki wrote:
>> My guess for what it's worth....
>> 1/ Fit is a Honda
>
> yes
>
>> 2/ Fit is new to US
>
> yes
>
>> 3/Fit is pretty fuel efficient not extremely tiny car
>
> no. Fit mpg is 31/38. Civic is 30/40. This is inexplicable: Fit is over
> 200 lbs lighter than Civic, and engine is 0.3L smaller, yet does not
> get better mileage?
>
>> 4/Fit (at least sport model) has some good features for price class
>
> ok
>
>> 5/People are not always the most logical (I would never buy a car without
>> test driving it)
>
> definite yes. This is similar to when the Odyssey first came out. They
> were selling for list or above, there were absolutely none on the lots,
> so everyone was ordering without test driving first. But then again,
> considering that people will pay 5x MSRP for a video game system just
> to have it a month before everyone else, it's not surprising.
>

Like I said, it was my guesses on the matter. As for the fuel efficiency, I
think once you get in the 30's for city and high 30's or better for hwy,
most people are happy and aren't going to be picky about a mpg or 2 between
2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
a lot of people these days....

Joe LaVigne

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:25:11 +0000, tanukiki wrote:

> 2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
> going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
> a lot of people these days....

The new civic dash is one of the car's finest features. The speedometer
is right where it is easiest seen. Always right there. I absolutely LOVE
it. To each his own, I guess...

Joe LaVigne

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:25:11 +0000, tanukiki wrote:

> 2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
> going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
> a lot of people these days....

The new civic dash is one of the car's finest features. The speedometer
is right where it is easiest seen. Always right there. I absolutely LOVE
it. To each his own, I guess...

Joe LaVigne

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:25:11 +0000, tanukiki wrote:

> 2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
> going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
> a lot of people these days....

The new civic dash is one of the car's finest features. The speedometer
is right where it is easiest seen. Always right there. I absolutely LOVE
it. To each his own, I guess...

Joe LaVigne

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:25:11 +0000, tanukiki wrote:

> 2 models. Besides, the Civic has that awful (IMO) split speedo/dash thing
> going on. blech Oh and the Fit is wagon-like which seems to be appealing to
> a lot of people these days....

The new civic dash is one of the car's finest features. The speedometer
is right where it is easiest seen. Always right there. I absolutely LOVE
it. To each his own, I guess...