Spazpop2000

I've been waiting for an '06 IMA Accord since September (I know, I
know- wishful thinking on a September arrival, but I thought they'd at
least be here by the end of the year). The dealerships in Georgia
that I've visited are telling me that they have been "in port" since
around mid-December, but are unable to give me an ETA for when they
arrive in showrooms.

I contacted American Honda customer service to see if I could get some
info- total waste of my time. The customer service rep told me to
call my zone office (district sales office), which I did. They told
me it was "Katrina's fault", although I find it hard to believe that
the showrooms can be full of '06 everything EXCEPT IMA Accords and
Civics (we even have a Civic Si over here). She told me to wait until
at least April. Hell, that's over halfway through the '06 model year.
I smell a cover-up...

Is there anybody out there that has info on the holdup?
Which port are they in? East coast? West coast? Japanese?

Dr Nick

mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been for
the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will take
you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual tranny?
why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
and accord are all auto only).

xblazinlv

Dr Nick wrote:
> mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been for
> the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
> although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will take
> you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual tranny?
> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
> and accord are all auto only).

I think you might have hit the nail on the head

------------------------------------
Mike Mangione
http://www.carforums.net

Elliot Richmond

On 18 Jan 2006 13:53:45 -0800, "xblazinlv" <mike@carforums.net> wrote:
>Dr Nick wrote:
>> also no manual tranny?
>> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
>> and accord are all auto only).

This answer is directed to the question about the automatic
transmission. In Toyotas the "Hybrid Synergy Drive" is an essential
component of the system. The transmission acheives continuously
variable "gear" ratios by a combination of two electric motors
separately driving the planetary gear carrier and the drive shaft.
This allows the gasoline engine to operate at optimum speed most of
the time, maximizing fuel efficiency. Extra power, when needed, comes
from the battery pack.

Here is a Wikipedia article on the operation of the Hybrid Synergy
Drive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hybrid_System

Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

Spazpop2000

I'm not so sure about this theory. Seems to me that there wasn't ever
a real surplus of hybrid vehicles sitting on the lots around here, and
there haven't been any IMA Civics or Accords for a couple of months
now. Honda doesn't need a spike in gas prices to sell them (although
I'm sure it helps). I know salesmen who are frustrated at having 3-4
cars presold and can't deliver product. It would be foolish for Honda
to spend so much money advertising the IMA Civics and Accords and then
just sit on them. Something else is going on...

As for recouping the extra cost, I've read about that argument time
and time again. I understand the math, but my desire to purchase
hybrid(s- we already own an '04 IMA Civic) is more a show of support
towards technologies that are making an effort at reducing our
dependancy on fossil fuels (insert your own political/environmental
reason here). As a society, we've saved more than enough money by
taking the "easy way out". I just think it's fair for us to put up a
little extra $$$ to try to reduce our impact on the environment
through alternate energy sources, etc.

Besides, most of the mathmaticians out there don't take tax
deductions/credits into consideration when figuring out the "180,000
miles of driving you'll need to do to recoup the extra costs". Our
'04 A/T Civic with leather (aftermarket option added on at dealership)
and 7-year/100,000 mile warranty cost us about $21,000, less the $2000
federal deduction that saved us about $600 more- not much more than a
4-door EX (if you were to add leather and warranty to it). This year,
the tax incentive is even greater- a $2100 CREDIT, not deduction, on
the A/T Civic. The Accord deduction is considerably less, but still
better than last year.

It's a shame I can't find one to buy...

On 18 Jan 2006 13:53:45 -0800, "xblazinlv" <mike@carforums.net> wrote:

>
>Dr Nick wrote:
>> mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been for
>> the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
>> although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will take
>> you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual tranny?
>> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
>> and accord are all auto only).
>
>I think you might have hit the nail on the head
>
>------------------------------------
>Mike Mangione
>http://www.carforums.net

Art

If you can live with a 2005 Accord hybrid there may still be some in Cary ,
NC. We got $3k off list price.


"Spazpop2000" <spaz_pop@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:9nots11lpg4liapovj3th3vvbire1mlqdk@4ax.com...
> I'm not so sure about this theory. Seems to me that there wasn't ever
> a real surplus of hybrid vehicles sitting on the lots around here, and
> there haven't been any IMA Civics or Accords for a couple of months
> now. Honda doesn't need a spike in gas prices to sell them (although
> I'm sure it helps). I know salesmen who are frustrated at having 3-4
> cars presold and can't deliver product. It would be foolish for Honda
> to spend so much money advertising the IMA Civics and Accords and then
> just sit on them. Something else is going on...
>
> As for recouping the extra cost, I've read about that argument time
> and time again. I understand the math, but my desire to purchase
> hybrid(s- we already own an '04 IMA Civic) is more a show of support
> towards technologies that are making an effort at reducing our
> dependancy on fossil fuels (insert your own political/environmental
> reason here). As a society, we've saved more than enough money by
> taking the "easy way out". I just think it's fair for us to put up a
> little extra $$$ to try to reduce our impact on the environment
> through alternate energy sources, etc.
>
> Besides, most of the mathmaticians out there don't take tax
> deductions/credits into consideration when figuring out the "180,000
> miles of driving you'll need to do to recoup the extra costs". Our
> '04 A/T Civic with leather (aftermarket option added on at dealership)
> and 7-year/100,000 mile warranty cost us about $21,000, less the $2000
> federal deduction that saved us about $600 more- not much more than a
> 4-door EX (if you were to add leather and warranty to it). This year,
> the tax incentive is even greater- a $2100 CREDIT, not deduction, on
> the A/T Civic. The Accord deduction is considerably less, but still
> better than last year.
>
> It's a shame I can't find one to buy...
>
> On 18 Jan 2006 13:53:45 -0800, "xblazinlv" <mike@carforums.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Dr Nick wrote:
>>> mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been
>>> for
>>> the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
>>> although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will
>>> take
>>> you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual
>>> tranny?
>>> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius,
>>> civic
>>> and accord are all auto only).
>>
>>I think you might have hit the nail on the head
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>Mike Mangione
>>http://www.carforums.net

Dr Nick

"Spazpop2000" <spaz_pop@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:9nots11lpg4liapovj3th3vvbire1mlqdk@4ax.com...
> I'm not so sure about this theory. Seems to me that there wasn't ever
> a real surplus of hybrid vehicles sitting on the lots around here, and
> there haven't been any IMA Civics or Accords for a couple of months
> now. Honda doesn't need a spike in gas prices to sell them (although
> I'm sure it helps). I know salesmen who are frustrated at having 3-4
> cars presold and can't deliver product. It would be foolish for Honda
> to spend so much money advertising the IMA Civics and Accords and then
> just sit on them. Something else is going on...
>
> As for recouping the extra cost, I've read about that argument time
> and time again. I understand the math, but my desire to purchase
> hybrid(s- we already own an '04 IMA Civic) is more a show of support
> towards technologies that are making an effort at reducing our
> dependancy on fossil fuels (insert your own political/environmental
> reason here). As a society, we've saved more than enough money by
> taking the "easy way out". I just think it's fair for us to put up a
> little extra $$$ to try to reduce our impact on the environment
> through alternate energy sources, etc.
>
> Besides, most of the mathmaticians out there don't take tax
> deductions/credits into consideration when figuring out the "180,000
> miles of driving you'll need to do to recoup the extra costs". Our
> '04 A/T Civic with leather (aftermarket option added on at dealership)
> and 7-year/100,000 mile warranty cost us about $21,000, less the $2000
> federal deduction that saved us about $600 more- not much more than a
> 4-door EX (if you were to add leather and warranty to it). This year,
> the tax incentive is even greater- a $2100 CREDIT, not deduction, on
> the A/T Civic. The Accord deduction is considerably less, but still
> better than last year.
>
> It's a shame I can't find one to buy...


I do agree with your points, we need cleaner burnign cars. I just don't
think those of us who wish to use less gas should have to pay a premium for
it. federal regulations arnt' making car companys improve their MPG as they
should. they keep SLOWLY raising the min epa required MPG for a FLEET (I
don't believe there is any regulations for the mpg of 1 car, although if
it's too low there is a gas guzzler tax applied) and when the SUV was
introduced, they were allowed to classify it as a lite truck instead of a
car (meaning SUV's horrable gas mileage didn't effect their fleet mpg
average for their car division). I honestly don't think hybrid is the
(total) answer. Diesel is a great idea in my opinion, but there atn' enough
companies making diesel cars (just VW and mercades as I know of in the
states) if more diesel cars were made, diesel would be more affordable (also
uses less resources to make, and can be blended up to 10% with bio-diesel
(vegitable oil) to support american farmers, and lower our dependance on
foreign oils) now I've heard talks about possible Hybrid diesel, that coudl
be a BIG problem solver until hydrogen fuel cells are to the point where
they can used. Imagine getting 70 or 80 MPG, but again it would come at a
price premium (both diesel and hybrid technology is more expensive) now
about after tax deductions and such, I could fo sword I read sometime last
year that the government has been scaling back the deductions as hybrids
become more popular (correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 06 the last year for
the deduction, and it's peanuts to what it used to be) not sure if that was
changed or not.

-Nick

Spazpop2000

Here's a link concerning the new credit:

http://www.hybridcars.com/tax-deductions-credits.html

The incentives are better per vehicle, but they only apply to the
first 60,000 vehicles sold per manufacturer. Then, it starts scaling
back...

BTW, I read somewhere that Honda actually offers a diesel Accord in
Europe. I think emissions regs in the states plus the bad rap diesels
got in the past (noisy, smelly, hard to start, etc.) might be some of
the reasons it's not over here. I'd certainly be willing to look at
one. The VW Passat TDI was high on my list, but it's not being
offered in the states this year (apparently b/c of emmision
concerns?)...

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:15:28 -0500, "Dr Nick" <Drnick5@***.net> wrote:

>
>"Spazpop2000" <spaz_pop@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
>news:9nots11lpg4liapovj3th3vvbire1mlqdk@4ax.com.. .
>> I'm not so sure about this theory. Seems to me that there wasn't ever
>> a real surplus of hybrid vehicles sitting on the lots around here, and
>> there haven't been any IMA Civics or Accords for a couple of months
>> now. Honda doesn't need a spike in gas prices to sell them (although
>> I'm sure it helps). I know salesmen who are frustrated at having 3-4
>> cars presold and can't deliver product. It would be foolish for Honda
>> to spend so much money advertising the IMA Civics and Accords and then
>> just sit on them. Something else is going on...
>>
>> As for recouping the extra cost, I've read about that argument time
>> and time again. I understand the math, but my desire to purchase
>> hybrid(s- we already own an '04 IMA Civic) is more a show of support
>> towards technologies that are making an effort at reducing our
>> dependancy on fossil fuels (insert your own political/environmental
>> reason here). As a society, we've saved more than enough money by
>> taking the "easy way out". I just think it's fair for us to put up a
>> little extra $$$ to try to reduce our impact on the environment
>> through alternate energy sources, etc.
>>
>> Besides, most of the mathmaticians out there don't take tax
>> deductions/credits into consideration when figuring out the "180,000
>> miles of driving you'll need to do to recoup the extra costs". Our
>> '04 A/T Civic with leather (aftermarket option added on at dealership)
>> and 7-year/100,000 mile warranty cost us about $21,000, less the $2000
>> federal deduction that saved us about $600 more- not much more than a
>> 4-door EX (if you were to add leather and warranty to it). This year,
>> the tax incentive is even greater- a $2100 CREDIT, not deduction, on
>> the A/T Civic. The Accord deduction is considerably less, but still
>> better than last year.
>>
>> It's a shame I can't find one to buy...
>
>
>I do agree with your points, we need cleaner burnign cars. I just don't
>think those of us who wish to use less gas should have to pay a premium for
>it. federal regulations arnt' making car companys improve their MPG as they
>should. they keep SLOWLY raising the min epa required MPG for a FLEET (I
>don't believe there is any regulations for the mpg of 1 car, although if
>it's too low there is a gas guzzler tax applied) and when the SUV was
>introduced, they were allowed to classify it as a lite truck instead of a
>car (meaning SUV's horrable gas mileage didn't effect their fleet mpg
>average for their car division). I honestly don't think hybrid is the
>(total) answer. Diesel is a great idea in my opinion, but there atn' enough
>companies making diesel cars (just VW and mercades as I know of in the
>states) if more diesel cars were made, diesel would be more affordable (also
>uses less resources to make, and can be blended up to 10% with bio-diesel
>(vegitable oil) to support american farmers, and lower our dependance on
>foreign oils) now I've heard talks about possible Hybrid diesel, that coudl
>be a BIG problem solver until hydrogen fuel cells are to the point where
>they can used. Imagine getting 70 or 80 MPG, but again it would come at a
>price premium (both diesel and hybrid technology is more expensive) now
>about after tax deductions and such, I could fo sword I read sometime last
>year that the government has been scaling back the deductions as hybrids
>become more popular (correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 06 the last year for
>the deduction, and it's peanuts to what it used to be) not sure if that was
>changed or not.
>
>-Nick
>

Michael Pardee

"Dr Nick" <Drnick5@***.net> wrote in message
news:U1mzf.34857$0G.28890@dukeread10...
> mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been
> for the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
> although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will take
> you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual tranny?
> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
> and accord are all auto only).
>
I thought the Civic Hybrid was available in either manual or automatic. Of
course, the Prius isn't available with a transmission :-)

Mike

Dr Nick

> Here's a link concerning the new credit:
>
> http://www.hybridcars.com/tax-deductions-credits.html
>
> The incentives are better per vehicle, but they only apply to the
> first 60,000 vehicles sold per manufacturer. Then, it starts scaling
> back...
>
> BTW, I read somewhere that Honda actually offers a diesel Accord in
> Europe. I think emissions regs in the states plus the bad rap diesels
> got in the past (noisy, smelly, hard to start, etc.) might be some of
> the reasons it's not over here. I'd certainly be willing to look at
> one. The VW Passat TDI was high on my list, but it's not being
> offered in the states this year (apparently b/c of emmision
> concerns?)...

thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of some of that stuff, as far as
diesels, the first car I was looking at before I got my accord was a jetta
TDI. the problem is wiht the gas prices a they are (this was when diesel was
cheaper than gas) they were selling for sticker, and that it, so I left.
although on ym test drive I was VERY suprised at the "Get up and go" this
car had. all that torque at the low end sure makes it fun to drive
(espically as a 5 speed). I spun tires (inadvertantly, mind you) in both 1st
and 2nd gear while accelerating) I've also read about honda making a diesel
in eurpoe, and if you look over there, (where they are paying MUCH mroe for
gas than we are) hybrids don't exist at all. the big reason Diesel isn't EPA
friendly is because of the diesel fuel we get over here. in Eurpose they
have "low sulfer" diesel, I've actually seen a few stations carrying it now
in the US, in a few years the low sulfer will be mandatory, and diesels will
meet the epa standards for emissions while using low sulfer diesel. the
Passatt TDI isn't offered this year, I don't think it has anything to do
with emissions, because the golf and jetta are both offered in TDI form, the
thing about the passatt is there is no manual trans. which is why I dind't
evn look for it. to anyone who reads this, just for the fun of it, test
drive a golf or jetta TDI, you will be pleasently suprised by the fun you
can have with an engine thats rated at 100 HP (although look at the low end
torque). I really think with a few advances in the fuel type and engines,
diesel can be a great answer.

-Nick

Spazpop2000

You could get a manual or auto tranny in the Civic hybrid up through
2005. The new '06 design only comes with a CVT- or it WILL come with
one once they finally release it :-)

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:27:31 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>"Dr Nick" <Drnick5@***.net> wrote in message
>news:U1mzf.34857$0G.28890@dukeread10...
>> mabye they are waiting for gas prices to rise (as they steadly have been
>> for the past few weeks) and when they hit their peak, they release them.
>> although an Accord hybrid still isn't worth the extra money, it will take
>> you a LOT of miles to even break even on the deal. also no manual tranny?
>> why is the insight the only manual transmission hybrid made (prius, civic
>> and accord are all auto only).
>>
>I thought the Civic Hybrid was available in either manual or automatic. Of
>course, the Prius isn't available with a transmission :-)
>
>Mike
>