Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>
>
>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>>1) Toyota
>>2) Honda
>>3) Hyundai
>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Make that:
> 1) Toyota-GM
> 2) Honda
> 3) Ford
>

An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>
>
>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>>1) Toyota
>>2) Honda
>>3) Hyundai
>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Make that:
> 1) Toyota-GM
> 2) Honda
> 3) Ford
>

An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:

> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
> >
> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
> >>
> >> 1) Toyota
> >> 2) Honda
> >> 3) Hyundai
> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
> >
> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.


Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.




>
> I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
> something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
> for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
> asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
> Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
> nearly 7 years.
>
> Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
> actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
> after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
> gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
> model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
> ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.
>
> Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
> "midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
> bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
> reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.
>
> Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
> GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.
>
> Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
> and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
> John
--

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:

> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
> >
> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
> >>
> >> 1) Toyota
> >> 2) Honda
> >> 3) Hyundai
> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
> >
> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.


Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.




>
> I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
> something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
> for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
> asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
> Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
> nearly 7 years.
>
> Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
> actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
> after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
> gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
> model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
> ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.
>
> Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
> "midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
> bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
> reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.
>
> Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
> GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.
>
> Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
> and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
> John
--

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:

> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
> >
> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
> >>
> >> 1) Toyota
> >> 2) Honda
> >> 3) Hyundai
> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
> >
> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.


Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.




>
> I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
> something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
> for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
> asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
> Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
> nearly 7 years.
>
> Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
> actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
> after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
> gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
> model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
> ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.
>
> Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
> "midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
> bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
> reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.
>
> Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
> GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.
>
> Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
> and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
> John
--

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
wrote:

>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>> >
>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Toyota
>> >> 2) Honda
>> >> 3) Hyundai
>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>> >
>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>
>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>
>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>
>
>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>first.
>
>

If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
wrote:

>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>> >
>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Toyota
>> >> 2) Honda
>> >> 3) Hyundai
>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>> >
>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>
>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>
>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>
>
>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>first.
>
>

If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
wrote:

>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>> >
>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Toyota
>> >> 2) Honda
>> >> 3) Hyundai
>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>> >
>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>
>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>
>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>
>
>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>first.
>
>

If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

> JohnR66 wrote:
> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
> prices have put that one to bed.
> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
> want another trip down memory lane.

John
I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

> JohnR66 wrote:
> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
> prices have put that one to bed.
> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
> want another trip down memory lane.

John
I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

> JohnR66 wrote:
> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
> prices have put that one to bed.
> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
> want another trip down memory lane.

John
I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>
>>>1) Toyota
>>>2) Honda
>>>3) Hyundai
>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>
>>
>>
>> Make that:
>> 1) Toyota-GM
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Ford
>>
>
> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a long
> history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan, on the
> other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with at least
> one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>
> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>
> John

GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.

As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>
>>>1) Toyota
>>>2) Honda
>>>3) Hyundai
>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>
>>
>>
>> Make that:
>> 1) Toyota-GM
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Ford
>>
>
> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a long
> history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan, on the
> other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with at least
> one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>
> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>
> John

GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.

As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>
>>>1) Toyota
>>>2) Honda
>>>3) Hyundai
>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>
>>
>>
>> Make that:
>> 1) Toyota-GM
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Ford
>>
>
> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a long
> history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan, on the
> other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with at least
> one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>
> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>
> John

GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.

As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>2) Honda
>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Make that:
>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>> 2) Honda
>>> 3) Ford
>>>
>>
>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>
>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
>> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>
>> John
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.


What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
those are no biggie.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>2) Honda
>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Make that:
>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>> 2) Honda
>>> 3) Ford
>>>
>>
>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>
>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
>> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>
>> John
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.


What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
those are no biggie.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>2) Honda
>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Make that:
>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>> 2) Honda
>>> 3) Ford
>>>
>>
>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>
>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
>> probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>
>> John
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.


What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
those are no biggie.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.

The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
acceptable.

Jon

"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:0uedncgu_4iDp0zZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>> of initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
> My company has had 2 new Hyundais in the past year and I find that hard to
> believe. The initial quality to me was above the "Big" 3 but well behind
> Toyota and Honda. The Santa Fe and the Elantra we have, have many many
> small but annoying problems within the first 5000 miles.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.

The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
acceptable.

Jon

"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:0uedncgu_4iDp0zZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>> of initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
> My company has had 2 new Hyundais in the past year and I find that hard to
> believe. The initial quality to me was above the "Big" 3 but well behind
> Toyota and Honda. The Santa Fe and the Elantra we have, have many many
> small but annoying problems within the first 5000 miles.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.

The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
acceptable.

Jon

"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:0uedncgu_4iDp0zZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>> of initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
> My company has had 2 new Hyundais in the past year and I find that hard to
> believe. The initial quality to me was above the "Big" 3 but well behind
> Toyota and Honda. The Santa Fe and the Elantra we have, have many many
> small but annoying problems within the first 5000 miles.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:

>
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.
> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
> just time for the
> proposal and the acceptance.
>
> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
> versa!!!!
> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
> more cheaply."
> NOT a good idea!!!)
>
>
>


I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got
into that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got
into it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for
the output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been
able to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along
with Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly
because GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can
only seem to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of
models at any given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes
Toyota run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!

That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM.
Toyota management is too smart for such a move.



John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:

>
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.
> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
> just time for the
> proposal and the acceptance.
>
> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
> versa!!!!
> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
> more cheaply."
> NOT a good idea!!!)
>
>
>


I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got
into that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got
into it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for
the output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been
able to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along
with Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly
because GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can
only seem to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of
models at any given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes
Toyota run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!

That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM.
Toyota management is too smart for such a move.



John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:

>
>
> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
> California.
> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
> the Prizm.
> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
> just time for the
> proposal and the acceptance.
>
> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
> versa!!!!
> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
> more cheaply."
> NOT a good idea!!!)
>
>
>


I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got
into that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got
into it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for
the output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been
able to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along
with Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly
because GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can
only seem to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of
models at any given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes
Toyota run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!

That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM.
Toyota management is too smart for such a move.



John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

So do I LOL

mike




"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iN9Ag.14791$PO.6754@dukeread03...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>>
>>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Toyota
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Hyundai
>>>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> piece of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>>
>>
>>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>>> of
>> initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
>
> Oh, I haven't looked at anything new. I only buy what I can pay cash for.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

So do I LOL

mike




"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iN9Ag.14791$PO.6754@dukeread03...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>>
>>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Toyota
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Hyundai
>>>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> piece of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>>
>>
>>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>>> of
>> initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
>
> Oh, I haven't looked at anything new. I only buy what I can pay cash for.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

So do I LOL

mike




"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iN9Ag.14791$PO.6754@dukeread03...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:SoydnZn9GM8svkzZUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>>
>>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Toyota
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Hyundai
>>>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> piece of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>>
>>
>>> Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey
>>> of
>> initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
>>
>>
>> mike
>
>
> Oh, I haven't looked at anything new. I only buy what I can pay cash for.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995

mike

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
> JohnR66 wrote:
>> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>
> Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
> failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>
> Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
> Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
> Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway
>
> Fit MSRP $13,850 Yaris MSRP $11,825
> Aveo MSRP $13,050
>
> So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
> get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
> being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
> vehicles.
>
>
> John
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995

mike

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
> JohnR66 wrote:
>> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>
> Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
> failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>
> Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
> Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
> Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway
>
> Fit MSRP $13,850 Yaris MSRP $11,825
> Aveo MSRP $13,050
>
> So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
> get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
> being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
> vehicles.
>
>
> John
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995

mike

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
> JohnR66 wrote:
>> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>
> Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
> failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>
> Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
> Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
> Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway
>
> Fit MSRP $13,850 Yaris MSRP $11,825
> Aveo MSRP $13,050
>
> So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
> get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
> being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
> vehicles.
>
>
> John
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you? Why do you think gas cost
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL


mike


"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:cqo3d2938dth3uoul4aacjs9354e04iuee@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>> >
>>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Toyota
>>> >> 2) Honda
>>> >> 3) Hyundai
>>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> > piece
>>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>> >
>>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>>
>>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>>
>>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>>> All
>>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as
>>> they
>>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota,
>>> Honda
>>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor
>>> trend is
>>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>>
>>
>>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>>first.
>>
>>
>
> If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
> health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
> off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
> while Honda doesn't?
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you? Why do you think gas cost
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL


mike


"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:cqo3d2938dth3uoul4aacjs9354e04iuee@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>> >
>>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Toyota
>>> >> 2) Honda
>>> >> 3) Hyundai
>>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> > piece
>>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>> >
>>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>>
>>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>>
>>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>>> All
>>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as
>>> they
>>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota,
>>> Honda
>>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor
>>> trend is
>>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>>
>>
>>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>>first.
>>
>>
>
> If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
> health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
> off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
> while Honda doesn't?
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you? Why do you think gas cost
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL


mike


"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:cqo3d2938dth3uoul4aacjs9354e04iuee@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:18:00 GMT, " dbu." <howard@dynoisadork.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <JnbAg.208187$mF2.71992@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> "JohnR66" <nospam@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>>> >
>>> > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>>> >> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Toyota
>>> >> 2) Honda
>>> >> 3) Hyundai
>>> >> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
>>> > piece
>>> > of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>>> >
>>> Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
>>> crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
>>>
>>> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>>>
>>> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>>> All
>>> the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as
>>> they
>>> age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
>>> well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota,
>>> Honda
>>> or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor
>>> trend is
>>> a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
>>
>>
>>Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
>>watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
>>first.
>>
>>
>
> If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
> health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
> off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
> while Honda doesn't?
>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vhpAg.14872$PO.7627@dukeread03...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>>2) Honda
>>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make that:
>>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Ford
>>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>>
>>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
>>> higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>
>
> What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
> before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
> the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
> to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
> those are no biggie.


They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vhpAg.14872$PO.7627@dukeread03...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>>2) Honda
>>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make that:
>>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Ford
>>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>>
>>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
>>> higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>
>
> What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
> before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
> the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
> to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
> those are no biggie.


They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.