Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>
>
> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
> over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6
> months, how about 1 year?
>
> Matt

Dealers do it often. I've had a few little things done at NC by the dealer
that were just over the line. So do the manufacturers make allowances if
contacted. In a cases like the doorlocks, the dealer should have at least
made an effort to keep a long time customer that has all his service done
there.

Legally, they were 100% correct to deny free service. Businesswise, it was
a dumb move. Giving the customer 30 minutes of time by a tech can make the
difference between a sale and no sale.


As for the new engine, that line is much harder than a door lock line.

Personal experience. I had some service done on my AC after the normal
period. I bought two more cars from him.
Bought another car and had a time/mileage incident and the dealer was no
help. I bought the next car elsewhere.


..

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

DonC wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:STdPi.269$2n4.17367@news1.epix.net...
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
>>>> locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
>>>> over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
>>>> refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
>>>> dealer.
>>>> BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
>>>> same dealer on time.
>>> Now that would piss me off. Wear items are mileage related but things
>>> like door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a different
>>> category. Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually falls into the
>>> gray area and a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not
>>> want repeat business.
>> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
>> over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6
>> months, how about 1 year?
>>
>> Matt
>
> Matt,
>
> You make many valid legal points. However we vote with our pocket books.
> If the manufacturer appears to the average consumer to be unreasonable, the
> manufacturer will undoubtedly lose at the next election. To paraphrase what
> I said before: Hyundai may well be legally right -- but dead right the next
> time around.

I'm not talking about legality. I'm talking about practicality. Where
does the dealer draw the line? If he repairs your car for free when it
is two weeks out of warranty, how does he turn me down when I'm 1 month
out? After all, I'm only two weeks later than you who was only two
weeks later than the warranty expiration.

Matt

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
>> over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6
>> months, how about 1 year?
>>
>> Matt
>
> Dealers do it often. I've had a few little things done at NC by the dealer
> that were just over the line. So do the manufacturers make allowances if
> contacted. In a cases like the doorlocks, the dealer should have at least
> made an effort to keep a long time customer that has all his service done
> there.

What constitutes "just over the line?"

Matt

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

>> Matt,
>>
>> You make many valid legal points. However we vote with our pocket books.
>> If the manufacturer appears to the average consumer to be unreasonable,
>> the manufacturer will undoubtedly lose at the next election. To
>> paraphrase what I said before: Hyundai may well be legally right -- but
>> dead right the next time around.
>
> I'm not talking about legality. I'm talking about practicality. Where
> does the dealer draw the line? If he repairs your car for free when it is
> two weeks out of warranty, how does he turn me down when I'm 1 month out?
> After all, I'm only two weeks later than you who was only two weeks later
> than the warranty expiration.
>
> Matt

Yup, he's got a tough decision to make and I'm not going to say where he
should draw the line. He'll have to decide how badly he wants to retain
customers. But it's clear to me what side of the line 2 weeks falls.

This all brings to mind a maybe unrelated incident I experienced maybe 20
years ago. The dealer was Story Oldsmobile in Lansing, Michigan. At the
time they were the largest Oldsmobile dealer in the world -- bar none.

Well, I took my Olds in for some maintenance and tried to set up an
appointment. Oop, forgot to say their arrogance was also the biggest in the
world : ) I was told they did maintenance on a first-come-first-served
basis. Okay with me. But you had to leave your car there and they couldn't
tell you an approximate performance time. It could have set in their lot
for a few hours or several days.

Told them that was a stupid way to handle maintenance and customer service.
They could have cared less.

Their business plummeted long before Oldsmobile went out of business.
Actually, Olds changed the way they handled employee vehicle purchases which
killed their golden goose.

I saw an ad recently which said "Customer Service is not just a department
name at ..." (don't recall the company name)

Lot of truth in that statement.

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:PofPi.272$2n4.17367@news1.epix.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks
>>> over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If
>>> 6 months, how about 1 year?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> Dealers do it often. I've had a few little things done at NC by the
>> dealer that were just over the line. So do the manufacturers make
>> allowances if contacted. In a cases like the doorlocks, the dealer
>> should have at least made an effort to keep a long time customer that has
>> all his service done there.
>
> What constitutes "just over the line?"
>
> Matt

In this case with the AC, an entire winter. The one year expired in October
but they fixed it in the following spring. It was strictly the dealer's
discretion to keep a customer happy and it paid off in selling more cars.

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"jim" <jwhite18817@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
Let me change the example! I have my transmission fluid changed at 25,000
miles instead of 30,000 and it goes out at 58,000. Since I didn't have it
changed at 30,000, is the warranty voided? Or is it voided because 33,000
miles were traveled without changing it?

What if I had it changed at 30,100 miles, would that void it? 29,900?

What if the first 3,500 miles following an oil change is all highway mileage
and then the next 3,500 are city driving and I change the oil at 7001. Does
that void the warranty? Get real!!!!

Jim


You can make up all the potencial scenarios you want, but there is a
responsibiity of the owner. If you choose not to accept it, be prepared to
have it used against you. There are many other subtle factors that can
change things, such as a sympethetic dealer that want to work with you and
help you, or being an and demanding something of the service manager
he normally cannot do and pissing him off..

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:50gPi.4122$y21.2745@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
>
>
>
> You can make up all the potencial scenarios you want, but there is a
> responsibiity of the owner. If you choose not to accept it, be prepared
to
> have it used against you. There are many other subtle factors that can
> change things, such as a sympethetic dealer that want to work with you and
> help you, or being an and demanding something of the service
manager
> he normally cannot do and pissing him off..
>
Well I do drive more than 50 percent of my miles at highway speeds.
Probably 70 percent. Should I service it under the "hard wear and tear" or
what ever they call it or the other category? With the definitions provided
in the manual I'm not sure.

Talking about highway speeds, Has anyone ever checked their odometer against
the highway mileage markers. Not just for a mile but many miles.

All of my last 4 vehicles, Hyundai, Chrysler, Honda and Nissan registered
OVER the mile. In other words, an actual mile would register over a mile,
ranging from .05 to .10 miles. Now over a 20000 mile space that adds up.
Think I could get credit for those unused miles if I need warranty work
let's say 200 miles past the warranty end?

Dealer won't even look at the problem when I tell him of the misreading.

You'd be surprised what courts would say about these cases, if they would go
to court.

Jim

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> DonC wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> news:STdPi.269$2n4.17367@news1.epix.net...
>>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door
>>>>> locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but
>>>>> over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer
>>>>> refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another
>>>>> dealer.
>>>>> BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the
>>>>> same dealer on time.
>>>> Now that would piss me off. Wear items are mileage related but
>>>> things like door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a
>>>> different category. Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually
>>>> falls into the gray area and a good dealer will try to help.
>>>> Evidently yours does not want repeat business.
>>> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two
>>> weeks over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6
>>> months? If 6 months, how about 1 year?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> You make many valid legal points. However we vote with our pocket
>> books. If the manufacturer appears to the average consumer to be
>> unreasonable, the manufacturer will undoubtedly lose at the next
>> election. To paraphrase what I said before: Hyundai may well be
>> legally right -- but dead right the next time around.
>
> I'm not talking about legality. I'm talking about practicality. Where
> does the dealer draw the line? If he repairs your car for free when it
> is two weeks out of warranty, how does he turn me down when I'm 1 month
> out? After all, I'm only two weeks later than you who was only two
> weeks later than the warranty expiration.
>
> Matt


The way I understand it is that dealers who might have difficulty
substantiating a warranty claim to corporate are reluctant to approve a
repair. If the claim is clear cut, they are more then happy to approve
the repair as they are paid full rate by the mfgr. Repair and service
work, in and out of warranty, generates far more profit for a dealer
then does car sales.

Each dealership will play the percentages in its own way when it comes
down to customer service verses maintaining a relationship with corporate.


For me, who I buy from is a more important consideration the bottom line
price.

I may be wrong, but if you are not required to have warranty work done
at the place of purchase, why not try some other dealers? Maybe one will
opt for your side of the fine line.

L.

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything
yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about
40,000 miles on it (less than 45,000).

I'm not sure if she declined a coolant change at the dealership. I do
know that she did get some service work done at a small shop that she used
for some bodywork she had done so not all service was through the
dealership.

To the point many people are making about the customer-relations effects
this could have; I drive a Subaru that I'm extremely happy with. With all
the good press about improvements in Hyundai's initial quality, Hyundai's
great design plus the owner experiences of some other friends I've been
considering a Santa Fe for my next car. I can say that how they deal with
this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really
Hyundai) a try.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"phillystyle" <sub3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a50d77fe4eb38bf7a648fc148955689@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything
> yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about
> 40,000 miles on it (less than 45,000).
>
> I'm not sure if she declined a coolant change at the dealership. I do
> know that she did get some service work done at a small shop that she used
> for some bodywork she had done so not all service was through the
> dealership.
>
> To the point many people are making about the customer-relations effects
> this could have; I drive a Subaru that I'm extremely happy with. With all
> the good press about improvements in Hyundai's initial quality, Hyundai's
> great design plus the owner experiences of some other friends I've been
> considering a Santa Fe for my next car. I can say that how they deal with
> this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really
> Hyundai) a try.
>

Well, that's certainly every buyer's privilege, but before I made any final
decisions, I'd make sure I understood the specifics about this deal. At
this point you really don't know enough about the situation to answer any of
the questions that have been asked here, so that leaves you ill-equipped to
make a decision about Hyundai customer service. There are lots of reasons
why engines fail. Some of them are the responsibility of the owner and some
are not. Impossible for anyone to cast a reflection on Hyundai at this
point, whether that be favorable or unfavorable.

Keep the group posted on things you discover.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "phillystyle" <sub3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6a50d77fe4eb38bf7a648fc148955689@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>> Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything
>> yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about
>> 40,000 miles on it (less than 45,000).
>>
>> I'm not sure if she declined a coolant change at the dealership. I do
>> know that she did get some service work done at a small shop that she used
>> for some bodywork she had done so not all service was through the
>> dealership.
>>
>> To the point many people are making about the customer-relations effects
>> this could have; I drive a Subaru that I'm extremely happy with. With all
>> the good press about improvements in Hyundai's initial quality, Hyundai's
>> great design plus the owner experiences of some other friends I've been
>> considering a Santa Fe for my next car. I can say that how they deal with
>> this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really
>> Hyundai) a try.
>>
>
> Well, that's certainly every buyer's privilege, but before I made any final
> decisions, I'd make sure I understood the specifics about this deal. At
> this point you really don't know enough about the situation to answer any of
> the questions that have been asked here, so that leaves you ill-equipped to
> make a decision about Hyundai customer service. There are lots of reasons
> why engines fail. Some of them are the responsibility of the owner and some
> are not. Impossible for anyone to cast a reflection on Hyundai at this
> point, whether that be favorable or unfavorable.
>
> Keep the group posted on things you discover.
>

Yes, modern engines seldom fail without some cause. Sure, manufacturing
and design defects do occur (sludge in Toyota engines for example), but
they are quite rate today. Most engine failures I see, and I see very
few, are due to abuse by the owner. It would be good to know the entire
story here. I'd love to hear the dealer's point of view.

Matt

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:PMOPi.283$2n4.18147@news1.epix.net...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> "phillystyle" <sub3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6a50d77fe4eb38bf7a648fc148955689@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>>> Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at
>>> everything
>>> yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about
>>> 40,000 miles on it (less than 45,000).
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if she declined a coolant change at the dealership. I do
>>> know that she did get some service work done at a small shop that she
>>> used
>>> for some bodywork she had done so not all service was through the
>>> dealership.
>>>
>>> To the point many people are making about the customer-relations effects
>>> this could have; I drive a Subaru that I'm extremely happy with. With
>>> all
>>> the good press about improvements in Hyundai's initial quality,
>>> Hyundai's
>>> great design plus the owner experiences of some other friends I've been
>>> considering a Santa Fe for my next car. I can say that how they deal
>>> with
>>> this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really
>>> Hyundai) a try.
>>>
>>
>> Well, that's certainly every buyer's privilege, but before I made any
>> final decisions, I'd make sure I understood the specifics about this
>> deal. At this point you really don't know enough about the situation to
>> answer any of the questions that have been asked here, so that leaves you
>> ill-equipped to make a decision about Hyundai customer service. There
>> are lots of reasons why engines fail. Some of them are the
>> responsibility of the owner and some are not. Impossible for anyone to
>> cast a reflection on Hyundai at this point, whether that be favorable or
>> unfavorable.
>>
>> Keep the group posted on things you discover.
>>
>
> Yes, modern engines seldom fail without some cause. Sure, manufacturing
> and design defects do occur (sludge in Toyota engines for example), but
> they are quite rate today. Most engine failures I see, and I see very
> few, are due to abuse by the owner.

In-laws 2002(3) Lincoln Town Car. Threw a rod through the bottom of the
engine. Car has 56,000 on it. Ford said it was out of warranty. After lots
of wailing and crying they agreed to pay for 1/2 the cost of an engine from
the junk yard. The labor and other half my father-in-law paid. I'm assuming
that is Lincolns call, not Ford's.


It would be good to know the entire
> story here. I'd love to hear the dealer's point of view.
>
> Matt

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

First, there's a little misinformation in the posts above. For 2004
models, the required maintenance interval for the coolant was 2
years/30,000 miles. But that's not even necessarily important here. What
is important is the reason why the engine failed, and whose responsibility
that problem is. Did it overheat? Throw a rod? All this is important in
determining the potential causes of failure.

For Hyundai to deny warranty coverage due to lack of maintenance, Hyundai
must be able to show within reason that the failure to perform the
specified maintenance actually caused the failure. In this case, how did
the engine fail? If it's coolant related, did the dealer take a coolant
sample and test the coolant? Coolant test strips which test for both pH
and temperature protection are very common. If Hyundai has no evidence
that there was a problem with the coolant, then there is no basis upon
which to deny coverage on that point.

There's significant information missing here, including the number of
miles on the engine and some other things. Bottom line, if the OP feels
the dealer isn't giving a fair shake, there should be immediate contact
with Hyundai customer assistance (800-633-5151).

--
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More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

Welcome back.



"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:0fe6a7fa39866abdf3320160c87bdd1b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> First, there's a little misinformation in the posts above. For 2004
> models, the required maintenance interval for the coolant was 2
> years/30,000 miles. But that's not even necessarily important here. What
> is important is the reason why the engine failed, and whose responsibility
> that problem is. Did it overheat? Throw a rod? All this is important in
> determining the potential causes of failure.
>
> For Hyundai to deny warranty coverage due to lack of maintenance, Hyundai
> must be able to show within reason that the failure to perform the
> specified maintenance actually caused the failure. In this case, how did
> the engine fail? If it's coolant related, did the dealer take a coolant
> sample and test the coolant? Coolant test strips which test for both pH
> and temperature protection are very common. If Hyundai has no evidence
> that there was a problem with the coolant, then there is no basis upon
> which to deny coverage on that point.
>
> There's significant information missing here, including the number of
> miles on the engine and some other things. Bottom line, if the OP feels
> the dealer isn't giving a fair shake, there should be immediate contact
> with Hyundai customer assistance (800-633-5151).
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Re: $10,000 Engine?
 

"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:0fe6a7fa39866abdf3320160c87bdd1b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...

Dude - there was a lot of speculation that you left and went to work for the
GM camp...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net